The fallacy of self help

[Breakingthewall]

2 hours ago, Javfly33 said:

I'd say yes suffering is because of mind (which is more complex than just thoughts, because when people say thoughts they usually think of language, and is more complex than that). 

However the question I'd ask is "Why the mind is so active in the first place?" 

Because there is no Clarity about what One is. If one is grounded on what One is, the mind will be silent and still all time, only responding when one wants to use it. 

The energetic structure of a human being is the most efficient possible for a given framework. This is how reality operates. If there were a more efficient structure, that would be the one. This is what we call infinite intelligence. It works this way, from the unions between particles to the evolution of life. Therefore, our energetic structure includes impossible-to-ignore emotional mechanisms designed to move individuals in a certain direction.

Eastern spirituality has always tended to transcend these impulses through willpower, thus transcending suffering. You could also shoot yourself in the head, and thus you would transcend suffering. Another option would be the understanding and alignment of your energetic structures so that they produce a harmonious movement, aligned with the rest of the movement of reality in the most perfect way possible.

[Javfly33]

5 minutes ago, Breakingthewall said:

The energetic structure of a human being is the most efficient possible for a given framework. This is how reality operates. If there were a more efficient structure, that would be the one. This is what we call infinite intelligence. It works this way, from the unions between particles to the evolution of life. Therefore, our energetic structure includes impossible-to-ignore emotional mechanisms designed to move individuals in a certain direction.

Eastern spirituality has always tended to transcend these impulses through willpower, thus transcending suffering. You could also shoot yourself in the head, and thus you would transcend suffering. Another option would be the understanding and alignment of your energetic structures so that they produce a harmonious movement, aligned with the rest of the movement of reality in the most perfect way possible.

Yes, the energy part is crucial, the good thing is that is connected to mind.

For example, let´s say you have a depressing kind of thought, that matches a certain energy configuration, according to the Vibrational Richard Hawkins scale, there are thoughts that vibrate less or more.

That´s why also people depressed will also have an energetic debilitated aura around them. And people excited about Life will have a more intense energy around them.

This is basically the science of Kriyas in Yoga. With certain understanding of the human system, you forcefully change or rev up the energy vibration so that the mind will produce higher vibrational thoughts. 

My theory is that the higher a thought vibrates, the easier it is to see it as what it is. And less a thought vibrates (shame, guilt, cruelty etc... kind of thought), the more difficult it is to separate yourself from it. Precisely because if you are having that thought you can not be in a high energy vibration (your energetic configuration in that moment has to MATCH the vibration of the thought).

 

[Breakingthewall]

1 minute ago, Javfly33 said:

let´s say you have a depressing kind of thought,

It's not just that a depressing thought creates a certain energetic state; it's that the depressing thought itself is an energetic vibration caused by a stable energetic structure that forms the core of your psyche.

Everything is energy, including stones, just in different states. The stable energetic patterns of your psyche are formed by interaction with the reality around you, plus the genetic foundations formed over millions of years, which are also energetic patterns.

If you attack thought as a cause, you're wrong, because thought is a result. You must change the stable structures of your psyche. This is much more complex than blocking thoughts; it normally requires external action combined with a deep understanding of what's internal. The two are totally intertwined. Just as you breathe air and it becomes oxygen in your blood, the energetic vibrations we call emotions draw from the social matrix and external reality.

[Breakingthewall]

18 minutes ago, Javfly33 said:

My theory is that the higher a thought vibrates, the easier it is to see it as what it is. And less a thought vibrates (shame, guilt, cruelty etc... kind of thought), the more difficult it is to separate yourself from it. Precisely because if you are having that thought you can not be in a high energy vibration (your energetic configuration in that moment has to MATCH the vibration of the thought).

Yes sure, in my opinion we say something is negative because it's unpleasant, painful, suffering. Suffering has the function of moving you in a direction, removing you from the fire, all of that. The same thing happens in the psyche, but much more complex.

If you're ashamed, it's not easy to remove yourself from what shames you. It's very subtle. You can easily become a narcissist, trying to avoid your inner shame in the wrong way. We've all fallen into that. Then you realize it doesn't work and look for other avenues. Or you don't understand that and you sink deeper into narcissism and suffer more. Then you become addicted, or spiritual, or whatever you see as a solution. Until, if you're honest with yourself, you see that it hasn't worked. And if you're ambitious, you keep digging until you understand the root of your shame and truly dissolve it.

[Javfly33]

18 minutes ago, Breakingthewall said:

 

If you're ashamed, it's not easy to remove yourself from what shames you. It's very subtle. You can easily become a narcissist, trying to avoid your inner shame in the wrong way. We've all fallen into that. Then you realize it doesn't work and look for other avenues. Or you don't understand that and you sink deeper into narcissism and suffer more. Then you become addicted, or spiritual, or whatever you see as a solution. Until, if you're honest with yourself, you see that it hasn't worked. And if you're ambitious, you keep digging until you understand the root of your shame and truly dissolve it.

I think that's what psychotherapy tries to do and it doesn't work. The root is endless because it has came from the source of creation, we are carrying all the past in different pieces of the puzzle. You can look at the source from your parents, but is not really there because your parents were like that because their own parents were also like that, and their coworkers or whatever were also a bit like that. 

It definetely helps thought to join the dots and see that if your father and your grandfather were toxic unsecure sexists, it makes sense you are too (speaking from my case 😂, yours might be different).

Quote

If you attack thought as a cause, you're wrong, because thought is a result. You must change the stable structures of your psyche. This is much more complex than blocking thoughts; it normally requires external action combined with a deep understanding of what's internal. 

I see your point, IME you can choose/discard thoughts at will only when you are at a level of consciousness/energy where you are beyond the energy structure. 

That´s why Yogic Kriyas are very special in my case, they are designed to put the system in Peak levels of energy so you will cut through whatever you have acquired/toxic patters of energy. 

But it takes time because is not only Yoga in my case, one has to change his whole life because sometimes jobs, places, family, people...etc can drag you down or/and are part of the problem. 

My mother has been fearful all his life but as a pretty woman men come to you, you don´t have to do anything, and is not expected a lot from you other than finding a stable job and then raise the kid, then rest of your life you just can live completely blind, read books watch Netflix as like that is life. But if as a man you are fearful and insecure you will never get in a relationship with confident and attractive women. So that forces me to move my ass in the direction no matter how much it costs. 

Edited June 22 by Javfly33

[Breakingthewall]

3 hours ago, Javfly33 said:

My mother has been fearful all his life but as a pretty woman men come to you,

That's not luck, most people are toxic and relationships are a depressing roller coaster.

3 hours ago, Javfly33 said:

But if as a man you are fearful and insecure you will never get in a relationship with confident and attractive women.

Who wants an attractive woman, if probably she's totally limited, full of barriers, projections, superficial, comparative, narcissistic, boring, with an alien scale of values and absolutely possessive? Since 99.9% of people are like that, more than attractive, what I'd look for if I'd want a couple is a miracle, someone real, who sees you and you see her, who connects with your energy perfectly, like a dance, absolutely true and pure. If destiny hasnt that plan, much better alone than any social contract 

[Jodistrict]

A three-legged dog is happy.  It’s our symbol producing mind that traps us in thought.   Developing a victim identity is absolutely deadly.  It’s better to assume full responsibility for everything that happens to you, whether it is metaphysically true or not.

[Javfly33]

2 hours ago, Breakingthewall said:

That's not luck, most people are toxic and relationships are a depressing roller coaster.

Who wants an attractive woman, if probably she's totally limited, full of barriers, projections, superficial, comparative, narcissistic, boring, with an alien scale of values and absolutely possessive? Since 99.9% of people are like that, more than attractive, what I'd look for if I'd want a couple is a miracle, someone real, who sees you and you see her, who connects with your energy perfectly, like a dance, absolutely true and pure. If destiny hasnt that plan, much better alone than any social contract 

I can´t be in a relationship with someone who I don´t find attractive, it would be betrayal to the woman and myself, because I would be with her like a friend and is great, but then is just a friend not a complete relationship, if in the back of my mind I'd be looking at other girls, i feel that is not congruent and betraying her. 

And also when I have tried to be friends with a girl that wanted something more, she couldn´t wait, the moment she realized I didn't want to have sex straight away and just want it as a friend, she just forgot me in 2 days.

I guess this is how the "marketplace" works lol. 

Edited June 22 by Javfly33

[Breakingthewall]

1 hour ago, Jodistrict said:

A three-legged dog is happy.  It’s our symbol producing mind that traps us in thought.   Developing a victim identity is absolutely deadly.  It’s better to assume full responsibility for everything that happens to you, whether it is metaphysically true or not.

A three-legged dog is not a tortured dog. Symbols arise from an energetic base. No one seems to understand this, and they think symbols and identity are something that arise from some kind of human whim, a mistake that we, the spiritually clever, can easily resolve. Just don't identify with them. This never works; it's mental castration and lobotomy. It works for Ramana Maharsi because he was born that way, not for you.

[Breakingthewall]

19 minutes ago, Javfly33 said:

I can´t be in a relationship with someone who I don´t find attractive, it would be betrayal to the woman and myself, because I would be with her like a friend and is great, but then is just a friend not a complete relationship, if in the back of my mind I'd be looking at other girls, i feel that is not congruent and betraying her. 

And also when I have tried to be friends with a girl that wanted something more, she couldn´t wait, the moment she realized I didn't want to have sex straight away and just want it as a friend, she just forgot me in 2 days.

I guess this is how the "marketplace" works lol. 

The vast majority of romantic relationships are a social contract and relationships of use from the lack that doesn't worth a three-legged dog's shit.

Edited June 22 by Breakingthewall

[Breakingthewall]

2 hours ago, Jodistrict said:

It’s better to assume full responsibility for everything that happens to you, whether it is metaphysically true or not.

Sure, I assume as my responsibility that time the Hutus captured me and sodomized me for a whole year, 8 hours a day.

What means "responsibility"? That I'm creating the reality? You are not creating the reality, you are the reality, and no one is responsible of it, it just is

Edited June 22 by Breakingthewall

[Breakingthewall]

If you want to relax the contraction, you can't do it by trying to stop doing something like thinking. That's double contraction. You must do it by opening your heart and mind to the flow of reality and becoming one with it. To do this, you must polish your structure, make it transparent. The question is: how? It's not something you do just by deciding stopping the thought, and that's the problem with spirituality: it tells you yes, then ties you down to that point where you try to erase something. You can't; you must try the opposite: open yourself up. It's something positive, an action, not stop to do anything, is precisely the opposite: open yourself. Well you could say that it's equal to stop closing yourself, but you are not closing yourself by the self referential thoughts, you are thinking self referentially because you are closed. 

Edited June 22 by Breakingthewall

[Jodistrict]

2 hours ago, Breakingthewall said:

A three-legged dog is not a tortured dog. Symbols arise from an energetic base. No one seems to understand this, and they think symbols and identity are something that arise from some kind of human whim, a mistake that we, the spiritually clever, can easily resolve. Just don't identify with them. This never works; it's mental castration and lobotomy. It works for Ramana Maharsi because he was born that way, not for you.[me]

That's your mental model of the world.  The energy is real but there is also the interpretation of the energy that creates suffering.  Also, I am not saying that it is easy as just being clever and poof the suffering goes away.   

[samijiben]

@Breakingthewall Damn! I totally fell for it man!

I was reading 1st paragraph thinking to myself "damn right preach brother."

Guess ive been listening too much Ralston lol. Looks like it is possible to brainwash urself with the very best teachings. Just turn em into an ideology and bam, youre fucked

Does this make Surrender & Abandonment the Ultimate Path? Or do we truly have Nothing to Hold Onto?

What Say Ye?

[Breakingthewall]

54 minutes ago, Jodistrict said:

That's your mental model of the world.  The energy is real but there is also the interpretation of the energy that creates suffering.  Also, I am not saying that it is easy as just being clever and poof the suffering goes away.   

Then how would you do?

49 minutes ago, samijiben said:

Guess ive been listening too much Ralston lol. Looks like it is possible to brainwash urself with the very best teachings. Just turn em into an ideology and bam, youre fucked

Over all if they are false. False means that they are limited, because they supposedly are ideas to open yourself to the unlimited. 

Ralston sais: everything is conciousness. There is no self, just conciousness. Then why forms appear? What you are is the conciousness that is concious of the forms? He would say: no, the forms are just arisings in the conciousness. Ah, then the "conciousness" is something that creates forms? How? Why? He would answer: forms are just illusion that arises in the conciousness. Ah, they are " illusions" , and? How the conciousness creates them ? Then the conciousness is not just "pure conciousness"? He would answer: those questions are coming from the conditioned mind, let them go 🥱. 

Conciousness is just a limited term, then a lie, so Ralston is a liar, or better, a lobotomizer

 

Edited June 23 by Breakingthewall

[Jodistrict]

Kundalini after Dark, on zoom, talks alot about working with the energy.  I am listening to it now.

https://www.brentspirit.com/afterdark

[SOUL]

So you poop on 'self help' then create your own story about what needs to be done to 'end the mission'...just seems like you want to criticize others about their story and prefer the stink of your own poop.

Ok...noted.

[Javfly33]

On 6/22/2025 at 10:58 PM, Breakingthewall said:

The vast majority of romantic relationships are a social contract and relationships of use from the lack that doesn't worth a three-legged dog's shit.

Yeap 👏👏👏 Am I the only one who thinks that sad as fuck? Getting entangle with someone for survival. Like sure, it can be useful but don´t call it "Love", so basically Sadhguru is right in that: "most relationships are a conspiracy between two people, a transaction".

On 6/23/2025 at 2:41 AM, Breakingthewall said:

He would say: no, the forms are just arisings in the conciousness. Ah, then the "conciousness" is something that creates forms? How? Why? He would answer: forms are just illusion that arises in the conciousness.

I see it like this: The forms are consciousness literally.

There are not two.

For example, hasn´t happened to you that you are in a very concentrated state after meditation (or whatever) and you perceive a sound, in such a way that sound seems like is not a sound, but is literally consciousness. 

So basically the form (visual instead of hearing) could also be just consciousness. 

There isn´t really a form, there is just consciousness, and consciousness is able to form itself into a form. For example a Sofa would just be consciousness morfing itself as a Sofa.

Or a engine car sound would be just consciousness morfing itself as an engine car sound (consciousness in a certain level of vibrancy)

Quote

Conciousness is just a limited term, then a lie, so Ralston is a liar, or better, a lobotomizer

@Breakingthewall Sometimes I think he is a liar but for example this video seems pretty "perfect" so to speak:

 

Edited June 24 by Javfly33

[Breakingthewall]

3 hours ago, Javfly33 said:

so basically Sadhguru is right in that: "most relationships are a conspiracy between two people, a transaction".

Sure but that doesn't mean that are bad, for mostly that's better than being alone. That's human life, family, belonging, etc. You don't need to be a genius to see that, the point is that it's something, a reality. Have kids and teach them is something, is how life is. People use to be superficial, that's why relationship are superficial, but that doesn't mean that worth nothing. When I said above that about relationships are shit that's stupidity, like: I'm better than them . That's spiritual stupid ego, but it's inevitable because if you really don't want a typical transactional relationship you have to understand what they are to don't fall in them

3 hours ago, Javfly33 said:

Sometimes I think he is a liar but for example this video seems pretty "perfect" so to speak:

 

Edited 3 hours ago by Javfly33

He says that he is enlightened because he's aware of his nature. Anyone could say that. What he means is that he can be without labeling, feeling himself. I think that's very easy, basic, like being a kid, or a dog. Im in that state all time , it's still limited, I know it without doubt.  He thinks that what he is is "conciousness", the substance of reality, here, now. It's a limited vision, reality is much more than that, he's simplifying because he needs it

3 hours ago, Javfly33 said:

So basically the form (visual instead of hearing) could also be just consciousness. 

There isn´t really a form, there is just consciousness, and consciousness is able to form itself into a form.

Conciousness is the fact of being concious or something. Something is needed because if not there is not conciousness. Something doesn't mean an object, could be a thought, cold, time, existing, any movement of reality. Really you are not concious of the movement, you are the movement, then you could say that you are "conciousness", but that doesn't mean that the movement is not real. It's , and it's relation . The nature of existence is relation, reflexion of reality in itself. Existence is the manifestation of reality, reality is the unlimited, existence is the relation of the unlimited with itself 

Think: why "conciousness" it's creating anything? How? The answer would be: it's like a dream . A dream involves trillions of neural connections, relationship. Saying that of a dream is a joke, it's low spirituality, superstition. Much lower than any classic religion 

Edited June 24 by Breakingthewall

[Breakingthewall]

14 hours ago, SOUL said:

So you poop on 'self help' then create your own story about what needs to be done to 'end the mission'...just seems like you want to criticize others about their story and prefer the stink of your own poop.

Ok...noted.

Yeah, I have the horrible defect of critical thinking. It's better to be a lamb, no doubt

Anyway, neo advaita self help and neo advaita spirituality is false in its basis. If it's a problem for you that anyone points it, what to do?

Edited June 24 by Breakingthewall