How to get meditation to work: deconstruction

[Inliytened1]

@Carl-Richard deconstruction should be its own thing. You are tainting mediation in my opinion.   Buddah would ageee.

[Carl-Richard]

Just now, Inliytened1 said:

@Carl-Richard deconstruction should be its own thing. You are tainting mediation in my opinion.   Buddah would ageee.

Meditation is a billion things. Maybe in your New Age framework, it's one very specific thing.

[Inliytened1]

6 minutes ago, Carl-Richard said:

Meditation is a billion things. Maybe in your New Age framework, it's one very specific thing.

It was that in the days of old and it should be preserved.  So no. It's not a billion things. 

[Carl-Richard]

11 minutes ago, Inliytened1 said:

It was that in the days of old and it should be preserved.  So no. It's not a billion things. 

Sitting meditation, walking meditation, music meditation, chanting meditation, mantra meditation, kundalini meditation, third eye meditation, vipassana meditation, focused attention meditation, open-awareness meditation, TM meditation, ACEM meditation, compassion meditation, devotion meditation. Just on the top of my head late at night while having a cold virus.

Let's also quote directly from all the religious traditions, Eastern and Western. Let's quote Sadhguru. Let's quote all the online non-duality teachers. Let's see how many meditations we can find. Then let's try to claim that meditation is one specific thing and that doing so has any meaning outside being dogmatic about your highly personal interpretation of a word that describes practices that have worked for you in your own life.

Edited Monday at 11:23 PM by Carl-Richard

[Inliytened1]

15 minutes ago, Carl-Richard said:

Sitting meditation, walking meditation, music meditation, chanting meditation, mantra meditation, kundalini meditation, third eye meditation, vipassana meditation, focused attention meditation, open-awareness meditation, TM meditation, ACEM meditation, compassion meditation, devotion meditation. Just on the top of my head late at night while having a cold virus.

Let's also quote directly from all the religious traditions, Eastern and Western. Let's quote Sadhguru. Let's quote all the online non-duality teachers. Let's see how many meditations we can find. Then let's try to claim that meditation is one specific thing and that doing so has any meaning outside being dogmatic about your highly personal interpretation of a word that describes practices that have worked for you in your own life.

All this stuff.  Yeah..I can't help that society  corrupted it.  But what is done is done. Mediation wasn't meant to be that.  It was meant to be simple.   It was meant to shut down the mind. Can you still do that? If you can then you have the essence of meditation.  I'm telling you this not because it worked for me but because that's what it is.

Edited Monday at 11:39 PM by Inliytened1

[Eskilon]

I actually agree with @Carl-Richard to some extent. Different people in different eras might need different techniques for spiritual development. Different strokes for different folks. I can live with that.

Osho did say that the average modern man simply can't meditate traditionally because of the various distractions and the speed of modern life. So he developed his dynamic meditation. 

What I dont agree is the insistance on deconstruction as in treating as an end and not as a means. And also implying that you are deconstructing no matter what, I find it too arrogant of a position.

Deconstruction is NOT the end. And you do NOT necessarily need to do it nor is it a prerequisite in meditation for it to yield results.

Edited Tuesday at 12:26 AM by Eskilon

[Carl-Richard]

55 minutes ago, Inliytened1 said:

All this stuff.  Yeah..I can't help that society  corrupted it.  But what is done is done. Mediation wasn't meant to be that.  It was meant to be simple.   It was meant to shut down the mind. Can you still do that? If you can then you have the essence of meditation.  I'm telling you this not because it worked for me but because that's what it is.

You sound like a literal Blue religious person.

[Inliytened1]

14 minutes ago, Eskilon said:

I actually agree with @Carl-Richard to some extent. Different people in different eras might need different techniques for spiritual development. Different strokes for different folks. I can live with that.

Osho did say that the average modern man simply can't meditate traditionally because of the various distractions and the speed of modern life. So he developed his dynamic meditation. 

What I dont agree is the insistance on deconstruction as in treating as an end and not as a means. And also implying that you are deconstructing no matter what, I find it too arrogant of a position.

Deconstruction is NOT the end. And you do NOT necessarily need to do it nor is it a prerequisite in meditation for it to yield results.

Not a big fan of Osho personaliy but he's more like me than I want to know. 

But yeah these are good points  i would say leave deconstruction  completely out.   Once you begin to bring science into the mix you might as well take psychedelics.   

[Carl-Richard]

17 minutes ago, Eskilon said:

I actually agree with @Carl-Richard to some extent. Different people in different eras might need different techniques for spiritual development. Different strokes for different folks. I can live with that.

Osho did say that the average modern man simply can't meditate traditionally because of the various distractions and the speed of modern life. So he developed his dynamic meditation.

Nowhere in history was there one single "traditional" meditation. And dynamic forms of meditation have existed since forever.

 

18 minutes ago, Eskilon said:

What I dont agree is the insistance on deconstruction as in treating as an end and not as a means.

?

 

19 minutes ago, Eskilon said:

And also implying that you are deconstructing no matter what, I find it too arrogant of a position.

?

In your little meta one-up game, I responded by saying that all of that was deconstruction. Letting go is deconstruction. It doesn't matter whether you're letting go of "letting go". Obviously, that is still letting go. I don't know what you're going on about.

 

22 minutes ago, Eskilon said:

And you do NOT necessarily need to do it nor is it a prerequisite in meditation for it to yield results.

You've said things I've never said three times now.

[Carl-Richard]

23 minutes ago, Inliytened1 said:

But yeah these are good points  i would say leave deconstruction  completely out.   Once you begin to bring science into the mix you might as well take psychedelics.   

Yeah, never let go of any of your attachments. That's a good way to get stuck looping on a forum for the rest of your life.

Edited Tuesday at 12:59 AM by Carl-Richard

[Inliytened1]

8 minutes ago, Carl-Richard said:

Yeah, never let go of any of your attachments. That's a good way to get stuck looping on a forum for the rest of your life.

Bro you need to get off the high horse.  Please. It's getting old now and  I haven't even talked with you lately. I'm not sure what happened.  I don't know If you got jaded .  But this is weird.  

 

 

Edited Tuesday at 01:03 AM by Inliytened1

[Eskilon]

12 minutes ago, Carl-Richard said:

Nowhere in history was there one single "traditional" meditation

Never saind single, read again.

 

12 minutes ago, Carl-Richard said:

And dynamic forms of meditation have existed since forever.

Never said it didnt. I said HIS dynamic meditation. Read.

 

12 minutes ago, Carl-Richard said:

In your little meta one-up game, I responded by saying that all of that was deconstruction. Letting go is deconstruction. It doesn't matter whether you're letting go of "letting go". Obviously, that is still letting go. I don't know what you're going on about.

Letting go is letting go. When you go to sleep you are not deconstructing anything. You are letting go.

Stop intelectualizing letting go.

14 minutes ago, Carl-Richard said:

You've said things I've never said three times now.

Never said but implied. Just look at the tittle of the thread lmao.

 

[Carl-Richard]

31 minutes ago, Inliytened1 said:

Bro you need to get off the high horse.  Please. It's getting old now and  I haven't even talked with you lately. I'm not sure what happened.  I don't know If you got jaded .  But this is weird.  

I have a cold virus and I'm cranky >:) Sorry.

 

29 minutes ago, Eskilon said:

Never saind single, read again.

Sorry, got you mixed up with the other person in the thread saying that. My bad.

 

29 minutes ago, Eskilon said:

Letting go is letting go. When you go to sleep you are not deconstructing anything. You are letting go.

Stop intelectualizing letting go.

Lol. Quote Paramahansa Yogananda "you people do not know how to sleep, you pull with you all sorts of images and personal drama".

 

29 minutes ago, Eskilon said:

Never said but implied. Just look at the tittle of the thread lmao.

How to get it to work ≠ only way to get it to work. You can awaken/meditate spontaneously without doing anything. That also works. Or staring at your own navel.

Edited Tuesday at 01:36 AM by Carl-Richard

[Inliytened1]

28 minutes ago, Carl-Richard said:

I have a cold virus and I'm cranky >:) Sorry.

The deconstruction is self inquiry. So you if you want to sit do that.  Otherwise I recommend concentration meditation.   Those are the only two that will do any good.  

Edited Tuesday at 01:58 AM by Inliytened1

[Carl-Richard]

23 minutes ago, Inliytened1 said:

The deconstruction is self inquiry. So you if you want to sit do that.  Otherwise I recommend concentration meditation.   Those are the only two that will do any good.  

I awoke on an airplane while listening to Martin Ball's electronic music and breathing deeply and lovingly with my spine extremely erect, focusing intensely and lovingly on the music. The lyrics mouthed "surrender to the flow", and a few moments later, my mind shouted internally "oh shit oh shit you're dying! Do something!".

I open my eyes and reach out to drink from my water bottle. My hand literally travels from my seat to the water bottle with ZERO feeling of me controlling the arm, ZERO feeling of weight, ZERO feeling of having moved by my own will. That is when I realized oh fuck this is it.

I immediately turn my head to the right to look out the window and the airplane lands, and I feel like I'm at home in my old house from when I was 3 years old or younger sitting in my living room, safe, comfortable, at peace. Tears boil up, but I force them down.

People are standing up and getting ready to leave. I stand up and look behind me. I see every single person, every single face, sitting there in one single space, all at once, no focus, just wide focal view. And as I walk off the plane, I'm not walking. I'm levitating. Someone else is moving my feet and it's not me. And tears come, but I press them down again.

My eyes meet a child in a stroller, they catch my eyes, they keep looking, even as they pass by, they keep looking, they turn around to look behind to keep looking. What did they see? Did they see what I had seen?

That worked.

Edited Tuesday at 02:08 AM by Carl-Richard

[Inliytened1]

14 minutes ago, Carl-Richard said:

I awoke on an airplane while listening to Martin Ball's electronic music and breathing deeply and lovingly with my spine extremely erect, focusing intensely and lovingly on the music. The lyrics mouthed "surrender to the flow", and a few moments later, my mind shouted internally "oh shit oh shit you're dying! Do something!".

I open my eyes and reach out to drink from my water bottle. My hand literally travels from my seat to the water bottle with ZERO feeling of me controlling the arm, ZERO feeling of weight, ZERO feeling of having moved by my own will. That is when I realized oh fuck this is it.

I immediately turn my head to the right to look out the window and the airplane lands, and I feel like I'm at home in my old house from when I was 3 years old or younger sitting in my living room, safe, comfortable, at peace. Tears boil up, but I force them down.

People are standing up and getting ready to leave. I stand up and look behind me. I see every single person, every single face, sitting there in one single space, all at once, no focus, just wide focal view. And as I walk off the plane, I'm not walking. I'm levitating. Someone else is moving my feet and it's not me. And tears come, but I press them down again.

My eyes meet a child in a stroller, they catch my eyes, they keep looking, even as they pass by, they keep looking, they turn around to look behind to keep looking. What did they see? Did they see what I had seen?

That worked.

Wow.  That's awesome. 

[Carl-Richard]

1 hour ago, Inliytened1 said:

The deconstruction is self inquiry. So you if you want to sit do that.  Otherwise I recommend concentration meditation.   Those are the only two that will do any good.  

How does focused attention meditation work? You focus, you get distracted, you notice the distraction, you break the distraction. What does breaking the distraction entail? It entails letting go of the injuction of the distraction. So focused attention meditation has deconstruction built into it. It's just the object of attention serves as an anchor and facilitator of the deconstruction. But it's also possible to address the deconstruction process more directly, by addressing the distractions themselves. What is driving the distractions? Are you holding on to some notions, ideas, beliefs, that make the distractions arise in the first place? What if you can let go of those notions, ideas, beliefs? Will the distractions keep occurring or will they disappear?

[Inliytened1]

1 hour ago, Carl-Richard said:

How does focused attention meditation work? You focus, you get distracted, you notice the distraction, you break the distraction. What does breaking the distraction entail? It entails letting go of the injuction of the distraction. So focused attention meditation has deconstruction built into it. It's just the object of attention serves as an anchor and facilitator of the deconstruction. But it's also possible to address the deconstruction process more directly, by addressing the distractions themselves. What is driving the distractions? Are you holding on to some notions, ideas, beliefs, that make the distractions arise in the first place? What if you can let go of those notions, ideas, beliefs? Will the distractions keep occurring or will they disappear?

You mean how does meditation work? I never got that granular about the distractions.  I just  didn't think.  Thoughts appear. Let them go.  Don't get too deep into why because I believe this just feeds the ego.  Just shut everything off.

Edited Tuesday at 04:11 AM by Inliytened1

[Carl-Richard]

17 hours ago, Inliytened1 said:

You mean how does meditation work? I never got that granular about the distractions.  I just  didn't think.  Thoughts appear. Let them go.  Don't get too deep into why because I believe this just feeds the ego.  Just shut everything off.

Forming the intention to sit in meditation, focus on an object and let go of distractions, is arguably just as deep as forming the intention to dissolve the distractions themselves. But even if it is deeper, again, teachings, practices, are like going to war. You are already making a huge mess. But that's ok. Because you are constantly making a mess. You're just creating a direction in that mess. The difference between spirituality and normal life, meditation and non-meditation, is simply an intention and a direction.

Nothing feeds the ego more than forming the intention itself, spirituality itself. And if you don't address that, i.e. letting go of the search itself, you will easily go in circles. You can pretend like you don't need to address it, but then it will either be addressed on accident, in the form of a spontaneous insight "oh yeah of course", or it will stay unconscious and you will ponder why the hell you're stuck after these thousands of hours of meditating.

Edited Tuesday at 09:41 PM by Carl-Richard