Are men or women the prize?

[Ryan M]

2 hours ago, Leo Gura said:

You grossly overestimate how much attention the average man gets from women. It's 100x less than you think because you're looking at some hot player dating coach.

This. Girls can’t even imagine that when you’re a dude that’s a 6 or 7/10 that you’re literally invisible to the opposite sex. The only exception is if you have preselection or you’re going out of your way to be charming towards a girl and it actually works lol. Otherwise you’re 100% invisible, a girl won’t even glance at you for a split second lol.

 

That’s why I always find it funny when my girl gets insecure before I go out to some event or wherever, like I’m going to “do something”. I’m thinking “do you think I’m Leonardo DiCaprio or something?” But it’s better to let them think that so I just let her think that it really is that easy for me 😂🤷‍♂️

[Princess Arabia]

5 minutes ago, CARDOZZO said:

Ok, it is not 99% of woman who is getting a coach to learn how to attract men. The truth is that women SELECT what they want - period. If you are an average looking guy, you have to work your ass off to get a date. This seems like a victim mindset statement, but trust me - it is hard out there and men are freaking out. They do not understand why they are not getting dates, they did everything society told them. 

Meanwhile.........the guy with the other mindset is winning. Go Playa it's yo birthday, go and party like it's yo birthday. Don't listen to social media, it's yo birthday, go get that girl she wants you, it's yo birthday. Find me in da club, it's yo birthday. Lol

[Natasha Tori Maru]

42 minutes ago, CARDOZZO said:

Women do not need men these days. Wake up guys! 

Women are extremely independent. They have all that they want, they achieved everything. 

The protector/provider frame for man is gone. You can find girls that will commit to that but it is rare these days.

Why should they commit to a low value guy who brings nothing to the table?

Even the average girl has 20 guys on her DM screaming to go on a date. 

2020 was the breaking point. Wake up guys.

 

There is actually some merit here. 

This is JUST my opinion and I am aware it is quote controversial - but I firmly believe most women need to learn to make space for men in their lives.

I am 100% for feminism and the liberation of women, but I also feel it is okay to need a man. To make space for a man to enter into our lives and allow him to embody his positive masculine traits. Love for a man is an action.

There are 2 issues I see - 1) Women have had to redefine their roles post feminism and 2) men have had to adapt and redefine their roles also.

Both realms for the sexes have been dislodged, so I do not think it is fair to blame either one. 

We are in the 'teething issues' stage of learning a new dance.

[Natasha Tori Maru]

1 hour ago, aurum said:

That's a great point.

It's the investment and shared experience of bonding itself that holds people together. Not just some intangible chemistry that existed independently of investment. The bonding itself becomes your narrative arc, your story.

I find value a really interesting topic, as the story element you raise (very rightly so) is baked in.

There are the sets of values we have that are rather static - but then also the ones we develop when in pursuit of a goal.

Both enter into the narratives we have underpinning our lives.

I very very frequently see people pursuing things that have little value, simply because they have invested to much time/work/effort/energy into the endeavour. But of a human psychology trap there.

[Natasha Tori Maru]

1 hour ago, Tenebroso said:

This also matches what I have observed. Women are not very receptive to approaching today because they find most men creepy. The more confident women are increasingly taking the initiative because women today have very specific types. My attractive male friends are constantly being approached online and in real life.

I should be more specific here - I do not mean blindly approaching.

I mean I pursued these men, having known them as friends or colleagues for a good period, prior.

This was how I vetted them for compatibility & alignment. Women often become very emotionally charged and let this blind them to properly vetting men. It is difficult to do, but I always have to consistently compartmentalise my emotions so I am clear in values alignment.

I had ulterior motives and waited until the correct signals were there. I also knowingly took the risk I may loose them as friends in the process. I am very confident, so I wasn't worried about being turned down. But by this time I was already significantly emotionally invested. 

The key thing is to remember that if you are turned down - trust in YOURSELF that you will bounce back from it. Don't worry about it going belly up, as you have the resilience and self assuredness to overcome the negative outcome.

[Raze]

56 minutes ago, Ryan M said:

This. Girls can’t even imagine that when you’re a dude that’s a 6 or 7/10 that you’re literally invisible to the opposite sex. The only exception is if you have preselection or you’re going out of your way to be charming towards a girl and it actually works lol. Otherwise you’re 100% invisible, a girl won’t even glance at you for a split second lol.

 

That’s why I always find it funny when my girl gets insecure before I go out to some event or wherever, like I’m going to “do something”. I’m thinking “do you think I’m Leonardo DiCaprio or something?” But it’s better to let them think that so I just let her think that it really is that easy for me 😂🤷‍♂️

This is one underdiscussed reason why I think all the talk about mens issues and loneliness will backfire.

I was watching this channel from a woman who was a former stripper where she streams with advice to men on how to be attractive, and she actually said that she didn’t even realize the average man had so few options and had to put so much effort to attract women or had similar insecurities to her. While she was empathetic to it she also said it kind of made her less attracted to men, because before when she sees a attractive masculine man he was almost mystical to her, now she just thinks of all the insecurities he might have and all the ways he had to work to be like that.

I think guys assume if everyone understood their dating difficulties it would help somehow, in reality it may just make it harder for them and everyone else. 

I used to be more outspoken about mens issues and wanting them in the mainstream discussing and to be more understood by women, but now that it’s actually happened it seems like a disaster. So many guys argue with women about the male loneliness crisis thinking if they convince them it’ll help them somehow, in reality a woman would likely be less interested in dating a man if she finds out he’s lonely. 

Edited June 6 by Raze

[Leo Gura]

Women need men as much as ever.

The pussy still needs a man. Don't kid yourselves. The desires and needs of the pussy cannot be overturned by some post-modern shinanigans.

To understand women you just ask: What does the pussy need?

Edited June 6 by Leo Gura

[Princess Arabia]

12 minutes ago, Leo Gura said:

To understand women you just ask: What does the pussy need?

A rubber ducky. 😛

[Princess Arabia]

39 minutes ago, Natasha Tori Maru said:

I mean I pursued these men, having known them as friends or colleagues for a good period, prior.

I thought so. This is different from approaching. Women pursue men they know all the time. This is what makes being in social circles a plus for dating. 

[Natasha Tori Maru]

15 minutes ago, Leo Gura said:

Women need men as much as ever.

Pretty much, it would put them back in balance.

Burn the vibrator 

[Natasha Tori Maru]

1 minute ago, Princess Arabia said:

I thought so. This is different from approaching. Women pursue men they know all the time. This is what makes being in social circles a plus for dating. 

I should have prefaced with that - when I read your comment I realised my error

[Princess Arabia]

23 minutes ago, Leo Gura said:

The pussy still needs a man. Don't kid yourselves. The desires and needs of the pussy cannot be overturned by some post-modern shinanigans.

The pussy doesn't need the man, the emotions do. Women feel horny for...., not because of....they get horny after the fact. It's that particular man, not just any man.

Edited June 6 by Princess Arabia

[Princess Arabia]

3 minutes ago, Natasha Tori Maru said:

Pretty much, it would put them back in balance.

Burn the vibrator 

After men know how to be vibrating machines instead of just playing poke-her.

[Raze]

28 minutes ago, Leo Gura said:

Women need men as much as ever.

The pussy still needs a man. Don't kid yourselves. The desires and needs of the pussy cannot be overturned by some post-modern shinanigans.

To understand women you just ask: What does the pussy need?

If they are down with sharing, they don’t need 80% of them.

Plus estimates were nearly half would be a single and that was before it was clear we are a few years away from sex robots with AI personalities 

[Princess Arabia]

1 hour ago, CARDOZZO said:

it is not 99% of woman who is getting a coach to learn how to attract men.

It's not that high but plenty of coaches for women are out there. The problem is men think it's easy for women in this arena. They see it as women are getting approached everyday and by the dozen and that we have so many options. No. We have it harder because we're most times not just looking for sex and even if we're not looking for relationships or even marriage, our choices are limited because of our standards. Not necessarily low or high but different from men. For men - look the part, for women - be the part. Which one demands more energy and time.

[Raze]

It’s also not 99% of men getting coaching on attracting women, it’s probably not even 1%.

[Natasha Tori Maru]

18 minutes ago, Princess Arabia said:

After men know how to be vibrating machines instead of just playing poke-her.

Totally ! Although its on women to actually explicitly tell guys what works.

We all work very differently. 

So many women value harmony over honesty here, as it is generally more in our nature to want to be agreeable. Getting trapped in our own deception, because we weren't honest about sexual needs, instead of candid feedback.

Then women stop having sex with their men because they aren't satisfied... you pay in disharmony in the moment - or you pay later on.

This is where good boundaries come in - and most people fail!

Just speaking in general here

[Xonas Pitfall]

Honestly, I find these kinds of questions very silly, haha 

Humans are naturally selfish - we want the best we can get. When someone calls another person a "prize," they usually just mean that they see a lot of value in them. But value is subjective. What one person wants in a partner can be very different from what someone else wants. There are some gendered patterns, sure, but it's still highly individual.

You can imagine a relationship where the guy is unemployed, plays World of Warcraft 18 hours a day, eats cereal for every meal, and has no real goals - but the girl is stunning, intelligent, skilled, and driven. Objectively, she would be considered the "prize" in that relationship. But maybe she genuinely loves his humor and charisma, so it works for them.

Flip it - imagine a woman with no ambition, no direction, and a lot of baggage, and a man who's successful, emotionally stable, and has his life together. In that case, he might be seen as the "prize" by traditional standards, but maybe he struggles with emotional attachment, and she has a unique personality or emotional strength that helps him feel safe and supported, so the relationship works for them.

High-value, attractive people are seen as the "prize".

One common narrative I hear from men is the concept of "hypergamy" - that women are always looking to date someone above them in status. But men are just as selective - they just prioritize different traits. While women might value ambition, drive, confidence, or resources, men often seek femininity, softness, emotional vulnerability, beauty, agreeableness, purity, etc.

Some guys end up thinking they're more valuable just because what they offer takes more "grind" or work to develop. But if you think those traits are inherently more valuable, then logically, you'd be attracted to highly masculine women, and most men aren't. So the whole argument falls apart. Men and women are playing completely different games when it comes to attraction and value. The irony is, a lot of men pursue these feminine traits but don’t genuinely respect them. They see value in women for those qualities, yet still place themselves above them, which creates a weird internal contradiction. If you chase those traits but don’t actually appreciate or respect them, you're dooming the relationship from day one.

Thinking you're always the prize is dumb. That mindset kills any chance at a healthy relationship. You don’t want to be the one who settles, but you also don’t want to be the one someone else settled for. It’s a tough balance to find, but let’s be real - the ideal relationship is one where both people feel happy, lucky, and like they got the prize. Everything else is just ego talk to justify your lack of appreciation or care for the partner/opposite gender.

That said, there is a time and place for the "I’m the prize" mindset. If someone’s coming from a place of low confidence, feeling unworthy, always pedestalizing men/women, or entering the dating world feeling defeated or intimidated, then flipping the script can be helpful. Believing you're the prize can give you the needed boost, optimism, and self-worth.  Just be careful not to overdo it to the point where you stop appreciating the very traits you’re attracted to. If you lose that respect, the relationship is doomed.

[NewKidOnTheBlock]

48 minutes ago, Princess Arabia said:

A rubber ducky. 😛

Must be such a great feeling, screwing yourself with a rubber

[Xonas Pitfall]

6 hours ago, Leo Gura said:

Woman wants what she can barely hold onto. Like a bird trying to swallow the biggest rat that can fit in its mouth hole until it chokes. Then bird blames the rat for nearly killing her. But bird refuses to swallow small rats. Bird looks for another rat she can barely swallow.

Ego wants what it can barely hold onto. Like a bird trying to swallow the biggest rat that can fit in its mouth hole until it chokes. Then bird blames the rat for nearly killing it. But bird refuses to swallow small rats. Bird looks for another rat it can barely swallow.

The Rat is the Other!

The Bird is the Self!

The Swallow Operation is Love!