Absolute Truth question

[koops]

@Leo Gura in your 'What is Truth' video, you say that these sounds, sights and colors are also Absolute Truth. And that form and formlessness are identical.
''The entire relative domain is absolute truth in disguise.''

You mean that Absolute Truth is always here, whether you are aware or not, you just need the realization of it (awakening); so the relative domain/perception is still Absolute Truth while not awake?

For example, if Leo from 2013 is watching the basketball game in his sofa in his relative-dualistic domain (maya we can call it)... thats Absolute Truth, because that's what Is, he is just not aware of it until he awakens and he realizes Oneness, God, Form=Formlessness, Absolute Truth?

 

 

-Also, you say that Absolute Truth is pure objectivity, which I get where you are coming from, but for example David Hawkins says is pure subjectivity.

Truth cannot be proven objectively and can only can be access through 1st person ''experience'', directly, so how is that not pure subjectivity? 

How do you reconcile that? Doesn't really Absolute Truth transcend labels as objectivity and subjectivity? It just Is?

Is this just a semantic thing?  

 

 

[Hojo]

Not leo but you are leaving yourself out of the equation of absolute truth. You get a say in what is happening but have been programmed from school and society to bow to everyone else and not yourself. You might not always be right but should never deny your say. So both are right and can counter because the being in first person gets to dictate what they experience. If they discuss they can have opposing views but the person who is aware knows when they are bullshitting themselves. Thats why the first one to start calling names is usually the loser.

Reality is basically a bunch of people telling you stuff about the world to form your worldview. We have been lied too you can beleive anything you want.

Edited May 25 by Hojo

[Leo Gura]

2 hours ago, koops said:

You mean that Absolute Truth is always here, whether you are aware or not, you just need the realization of it (awakening); so the relative domain/perception is still Absolute Truth while not awake?

Yes.

Everything you see right now is Absolute Truth. Whether you recognize it as such or not doesn't change the situation.

An elephant is an elephant whether you recognize it or not. You might think an elephant is a giant rock, but that's a you-problem. It doesn't change the situation. The elephant is still there, waiting for you to recognize it.

Quote

-Also, you say that Absolute Truth is pure objectivity, which I get where you are coming from, but for example David Hawkins says is pure subjectivity.

Truth cannot be proven objectively and can only can be access through 1st person ''experience'', directly, so how is that not pure subjectivity?

When you get this deep, the difference between objective and subjective collapses. You're just left with absolutely what is.

You can frame it in various ways. You can frame it as everything becoming absolutely subjective. Or you can frame it as everything being absolutely objective. They amount to the same thing in the end.

I've spoken of pure subjectivity and absolute subjectivity many times.

Truth cannot be "proven" so to speak. However, truth is absolute, so that's as "objective" as objective gets. It's objective because there is no "person". The subject is Nothing. When the subject is Nothing, that's really just to say that everything you experience is objective.

Truth does not appear to a subject. Truth just is. Truth exists for itself. So in this sense truth is Absolute/objective.

Alternatively, you could say that Truth is its own subject. The subject for Truth is not a person or a witness, it is Truth itself. Truth is it so own subject, which is just another way of saying that Truth is objective.

Both frames are correct and identical.

Quote

How do you reconcile that? Doesn't really Absolute Truth transcend labels as objectivity and subjectivity? It just Is?

Yes, it just is. But you can view or conceive of it in different ways.

Quote

Is this just a semantic thing?

It's not just a semantic thing, it's a perspective thing. You can take various perspectives on it.

There are multiple ways of conceiving the same thing.

Glass half full, glass half empty.

That's not just a verbal difference. That's a difference in perspective/conception.

It's your responsibility to see how various perspectives equate and unify.

Edited May 25 by Leo Gura

[koops]

4 hours ago, Hojo said:

Not leo but you are leaving yourself out of the equation of absolute truth. You get a say in what is happening but have been programmed from school and society to bow to everyone else and not yourself. You might not always be right but should never deny your say. So both are right and can counter because the being in first person gets to dictate what they experience. If they discuss they can have opposing views but the person who is aware knows when they are bullshitting themselves. Thats why the first one to start calling names is usually the loser.

Reality is basically a bunch of people telling you stuff about the world to form your worldview. We have been lied too you can beleive anything you want.

What I mean by Absolute Truth here is deeper than this. It transcends beliefs

[Hojo]

@koops Then you cant use language to talk about it. Words are beliefs.

Edited May 25 by Hojo

[koops]

4 hours ago, Leo Gura said:

Yes.

Everything you see right now is Absolute Truth. Whether you recognize it as such or not doesn't change the situation.

Well, it does, don't you think? Thats the point of awakening.
I mean, whats the point of realizing Oneness/Consciousness/Absolute Truth if the relative/perception is already Absolute Truth?

If I'm sitting on a chest with a million dollars inside, and I'm not aware of whats in it; yes, the money is there, but becoming aware of it makes a HUGE shift in the situation.

So when you say 'The entire relative domain is absolute truth in disguise'', now that line makes more sense to me: it's Truth, but unrecognized.

 

4 hours ago, Leo Gura said:

Yes.

Everything you see right now is Absolute Truth. Whether you recognize it as such or not doesn't change the situation.

This is what confused me.

When I heard in your video: 'these sounds, sights and colors are also Absolute Truth' I thought: That doesn't sound like pure objectivity nor Absolute.

So my guess is you can say: The relative/perception is non-realized Absolute Truth, right?
 

5 hours ago, Leo Gura said:

When you get this deep, the difference between objective and subjective collapses. You're just left with absolutely what is.

You can frame it in various ways. You can frame it as everything becoming absolutely subjective. Or you can frame it as everything being absolutely objective. They amount to the same thing in the end.

Truth cannot be "proven" so to speak. However, truth is absolute, so that's as "objective" as objective gets. It's objective because there is no "person". The subject is Nothing. When the subject is Nothing, that's really just to say that everything you experience is objective.

Truth does not appear to a subject. Truth just is. Truth exists for itself. So in this sense truth is Absolute/objective.

Alternatively, you could say that Truth is its own subject. The subject for Truth is not a person or a witness, it is Truth itself. Truth is it so own subject, which is just another way of saying that Truth is objective.

 

 

Thanks. Thats what I was thinking. Makes sense.

[Leo Gura]

34 minutes ago, koops said:

Well, it does, don't you think? Thats the point of awakening.
I mean, whats the point of realizing Oneness/Consciousness/Absolute Truth if the relative/perception is already Absolute Truth?

Of course it matters to you whether you recognize it. My point is that it is what is regardless of whether you recognize it.

Quote

If I'm sitting on a chest with a million dollars inside, and I'm not aware of whats in it; yes, the money is there, but becoming aware of it makes a HUGE shift in the situation.

Yes, obviously.

Quote

This is what confused me.

When I heard in your video: 'these sounds, sights and colors are also Absolute Truth' I thought: That doesn't sound like pure objectivity nor Absolute.

It is Absolute. All experience is Absolute. You just aren't recognizing it.

Quote

So my guess is you can say: The relative/perception is non-realized Absolute Truth, right?

It's silly to even say it that way.

Would you say that if a baby sees a bomb it's a non-realized bomb? No. You just say it's a bomb and the baby is clueless.

Edited May 25 by Leo Gura

[koops]

55 minutes ago, Leo Gura said:

It is Absolute. All experience is Absolute. You just aren't recognizing it.

So you say when I look at my hand and there is a sense of self/I perceiving it, is still Absolute Truth? Is when I add a concept/label that 'becomes' relative truth?

My realization was that Oneness/Consciousness/God/Being is Absolute Truth; and that perception/experience/duality is relative truth.

I remember you said: Being = Perception - Ego

Am I missing something here?

 

Edited May 25 by koops

[Leo Gura]

13 minutes ago, koops said:

So you say when I look at my hand and there is a sense of self/I perceiving it, is still Absolute Truth?

It is Absolute Truth but in that moment you aren't aware of it as such.

Your money chest analogy applies well here.

Yes, Being = Perception - Ego

But notice, what is ego? Ego isn't really anything substantial. So perception is very close to Being. The only difference is a bit of extra awareness.

With a bit of awareness perception becomes Being.

Edited May 26 by Leo Gura

[koops]

7 minutes ago, Leo Gura said:

It is Absolute Truth but in that moment you aren't aware of it as such.

Your money chest analogy applies well here.

Yes, Being = Perception - Ego

But notice, what is ego? Ego isn't really anything substantial. So perception is very close to Being. The only difference is a bit of extra awareness.

With a bit of awareness perception becomes Being.

mmm.. when you say you need extra awareness to be aware of Absolute Truht (and perception becoming being), you mean awakening? Or something more simple as realizing how my mind distorts reality?

As William Blake put it:''If the doors of perception were cleansed every thing would appear to man as it is, Infinite.''
"Doesn't that 'cleansed' refer to awakening?"
 

[Leo Gura]

2 minutes ago, koops said:

you mean awakening?

Yes.

Awakening is just increased consciousness.

[koops]

1 minute ago, Leo Gura said:

Yes.

Awakening is just increased consciousness.

So you can be aware of absolute truth only after (not before) awakening even if you are not in that state now, right?
 

Thanks for your responses! I'll keep doing the work.

 

[Leo Gura]

4 minutes ago, koops said:

So you can be aware of absolute truth only after (not before) awakening even if you are not in that state now, right?

Awakening IS the moment you realize what Absolute Truth is.

Then you can drop in state but you still know what Truth is.

Yes, without Awakening you don't have a reference experience for what the word Absolute means. You are like a guy who hasn't experienced an orgasm. Awakening is the orgasm. You don't need to be in constant orgasm to know what orgasm is. But you do need to have at least one.

Edited May 26 by Leo Gura

[koops]

Ok, now I understand you. Thanks!

I had an awakening last year with your video 'Realizing you are God' and one of my realizations was: THAT was Absolute Truth. It was glaringly obvious. But then I lost it.

My confusion was that when you said your hand is Absolute Truth, it is, right, but you are not aware of it RIGHT NOW, directly. You have that reference from the past (from awakening). 

Like you know what an orgasm is, from the recall of having an orgasm, but you are not having one right now (I hope!)

 

[Leo Gura]

1 hour ago, koops said:

My confusion was that when you said your hand is Absolute Truth, it is, right, but you are not aware of it RIGHT NOW, directly. You have that reference from the past (from awakening). 

Funny enough, it's here RIGHT NOW, even when you think you're missing it.

You need to stop thinking about getting back to it and just notice that it's always NOW. Rivet your attention on NOW, whatever NOW is.

Quote

Like you know what an orgasm is, from the recall of having an orgasm, but you are not having one right now (I hope!)

The difference though is that unlike an orgasm Absolute Truth is always happens, always here. You're looking for NOW. So it's paradoxical and nonsensical how you could be missing it. Yet you are in a sense. And in another sense you're not, since it's right here.

You can recall your previous Awakening, or you can just focus on NOW and remind yourself that NOW is Absolute.

Do you understand what's happening? Your mind is losing track of NOW as it tries to get somewhere special.

To get back to Awakening you gotta stop trying to get somewhere and just focus on NOW like a motherfucker for a long time.

NOW is Truth.

It can take many Awakenings until the simplicity of it sinks in. The mind tries to avoid NOW by trying to go somewhere special or different.

Edited May 26 by Leo Gura

[koops]

5 hours ago, Leo Gura said:

Funny enough, it's here RIGHT NOW, even when you think you're missing it.

You need to stop thinking about getting back to it and just notice that it's always NOW. Rivet your attention on NOW, whatever NOW is.

NOW is Truth.

 

Yes, I get that NOW/Absolute Truth is all there is, and we can't find it somewhere else, but still... it seems to me that there is a 3rd category. 

1. Im looking at a tree and measuring it, concluding is 7 feet tall, or thinking that is bigger than the tree in my garden. Thats relative truth.

2. Im looking at a tree. No labels, no concepts. Just what is. Now. In this dual everyday state. 

3. Im looking at a tree and I have an awakening. I realize everything is One, Consciousness. I still 'see' that tree but I realize there is no separation.

My confusion is in the difference between these last 2 points. It seems that there are different levels/degrees of awareness of Absolute Truth. 

Would you label #2 as grasping Absolute Truth?

Is my error putting #3 above #2? (I consider #3 Absolute Truth, but not #2)

[Breakingthewall]

If absolute truth is absolute, as its name suggests, everything is absolute truth. Then "absolute truth" makes no sense. A lie would be within that absolute truth.

But well, absolute truth could be formulated like this: there are no limits, and since there are no limits, I am.

[gettoefl]

Ego can see 1 while God only sees zero.

Thus if you see one tree you call yourself ego!

Remove said ego by unknowing said tree

in order to see the zero in the tree

which is the window to the absolute.

To see it jogs your memory to be it.