Martin Ball says he's not solipsistic

[gengar]

4 minutes ago, Leo Gura said:

Yes, that is a profound way to look at it.

It helps resolve the classic problem of evil which no Christian can answer.

Then again, if God is all beings, that logic can still apply. In the end all the evil only ever happens to God itself, so who is hurt?

Yes, it's somehow soothing to know all your suffering will only be yours. It's weird really, why it would be soothing. Can't quite put my finger on it. The surrendering to the inevitability of it I guess.

Thanks for always having being blunt about this topic, Leo. I thought it was the worst thing ever but now see that it is the highest good. Somehow maturity came to me (in this line of development) when I thought I would never be able to grok it. Suffering as a human also helped in seeing solipsism as potentially good. When you're having a party, it's a buzzkill to find out you were just partying with yourself. When you're suffering massively, the beauty of it is revealed.

[zurew]

1 minute ago, Leo Gura said:

The entire point is that if solipsism is true, it is an Absolute, which means you cannot assume any other possibility.

You are not tracking , we are not talking about what would a solipsistic view entail - we are investigating how adept your epistemology is (that lead you to the conclusion that solipsism is true).

 

The issue again is that using your epistemology you can't recognize what the actual foundation is , because its not adept to recognize what the foundation is.

 

 

if your epistemology would be adept enough ,then under the thought experiement where Christianity is the foundation, using your epistemology would recognize that Christianity is true, the issue is that your epistemology doesn't do that - in every possible scenario it generates the conclusion that solipsism is true even when its false.

[gengar]

3 minutes ago, Salvijus said:

 

🌍 Sufism (Islamic Mysticism)

The aim is fana (dissolution of the ego) into al-Haqq (the Real).

All selves are rays of God, not projections of one person’s dream.

 

"All selves are rays of God, not projections of one person’s dream."

"All selves are rays of God, projections of Gods dream."
 

[zurew]

13 minutes ago, Leo Gura said:

Solipsism is unfalsifiable

How does non-solipsism not unfalsifiable?

[Salvijus]

Just now, gengar said:

"All selves are rays of God, not projections of one person’s dream."

"All selves are rays of God, projections of Gods dream."
 

Read the conclusion.

"No major mystic or spiritual tradition endorses solipsism.In fact, nearly all mystical traditions explicitly reject it, even while affirming the unity of all things." 

[zurew]

5 minutes ago, zurew said:

if your epistemology would be adept enough ,then under the thought experiement where Christianity is the foundation, using your epistemology would recognize that Christianity is true, the issue is that your epistemology doesn't do that - in every possible scenario it generates the conclusion that solipsism is true even when its false.

38 minutes ago, zurew said:

I dont understand why you think that the insights that you gathered and the confidence that you have in your insights couldn't be possibly replicated under any other worldview. Again - if you entertain for one moment that lets say Christianity is true - why do you think that you couldn't gather the exact same insights using your epistemology?

[zurew]

Sure the response that there is only one possible world is a response where you can rule out all other scenarios - But whats the argument that there is only one possible world?

[gengar]

3 minutes ago, zurew said:

if your epistemology would be adept enough ,then under the thought experiement where Christianity is the foundation, using your epistemology would recognize that Christianity is true, the issue is that your epistemology doesn't do that - in every possible scenario it generates the conclusion that solipsism is true even when its false.

Which is exactly why Christianity cannot be true.

Absolute infinity makes it so that no other infinity can actually exist, only as an illusion. Just like you will never count up the number line till infinity, the infinity of Christianity can never exist, since its existence would destroy the original absolute Infinity.

Any underlying "grand narrative" cannot ever exist as the fundament of reality, precisely because it is external to reality, like a wizard of Oz.

Solipsism is the only "grand narrative" that stays entirely internal to reality.

[Leo Gura]

13 minutes ago, zurew said:

You are not tracking , we are not talking about what would a solipsistic view entail - we are investigating how adept your epistemology is (

No. You are not tracking how profound God is.

God is so profound that it is beyond all epistemology.

In the end there is no such thing as epistemology. There is only Truth.

Edited May 28 by Leo Gura

[zurew]

3 minutes ago, gengar said:

Which is exactly why Christianity cannot be true.

I dont understand this response. How do you get to that conclusion from what I outlined?

Why is it that the conclusion from what I outlined isn't that your epistemology is limited?

 

 

 

[Leo Gura]

10 minutes ago, zurew said:

How does non-solipsism not unfalsifiable?

Non-solipsism is falsifiable. The falsification of it is called God-Realization.

I know all this seems so unfair. But Truth is not kind. It just is only one way and no other.

[zurew]

2 minutes ago, Leo Gura said:

No. You are not tracking how profound God is.

God is so profound that it is beyond all epistemology.

In the end there is no such thing as epistemology. There is only Truth.

 

Quote

Sure the response that there is only one possible world is a response where you can rule out all other scenarios - But whats the argument that there is only one possible world?

[zurew]

1 minute ago, Leo Gura said:

Non-solipsism is falsifiable. The falsification of it is called God-Realization.

Why do you think that God-realization is impossible under the thought experiment where Christianity is true?

[gengar]

4 minutes ago, Salvijus said:

Read the conclusion.

"No major mystic or spiritual tradition endorses solipsism.In fact, nearly all mystical traditions explicitly reject it, even while affirming the unity of all things." 

You expect me to take seriously ChatGPTs conclusion when it comes to these manners?

UNITY = SOLIPSISM and it can not be any other way.

The funny thing about Islam and Sufism is that it explicitly states that God is completely alone.

All "mystical traditions" never get explicit about the truth, even when they might realize it themself.

You really expect some medieval guru to tell you about solipsism the way Leo does?

The moment you realize solipsism, your human life ends. So it was never the case that any one human is real while others are not. stop conflating the human with Al-Haqq , all humanity is just a projection of God. there are no philosophical zombies because everything is CONSCIOUSNESS.
 

I'm starting to sound like Leo, and I'm not claiming to have Awakened like him or whatever, all that shit doesn't really matter, its just that other minds are so obviously an illusion at this point, and most people just deny it out of cope, and I get that, I've done it for years.

Believing in other minds is just another form of materialism but now with cool new-age or religious flavours to it. In the end there's either materialism or solipsism, the matrix or the real.

[gengar]

7 minutes ago, Leo Gura said:

In the end there is no such thing as epistemology. There is only Truth.

 

Edited May 28 by gengar

[Leo Gura]

 

Quote

Sure the response that there is only one possible world is a response where you can rule out all other scenarios - But whats the argument that there is only one possible world?

Look, bro. This issue is so serious that it is beyond argument.

There is not argument for Absolute Truth. It's just what is.

If you are serious you have to stop arguing. Arguments are for fools. Argument is self-deception. God does not argue for it own existence since that would be moronic.

You are trying to subordinate Truth to thought, which is just impossible.

Quote

Why do you think that God-realization is impossible under the thought experiment where Christianity is true?

Because Christianity is just horseshit.

You have to get serious.

Christianity is not serious enough to even warrant a response. You just leave the Christians at the kids table and let the adults talk.

Edited May 28 by Leo Gura

[Salvijus]

7 minutes ago, gengar said:

You expect me to take seriously ChatGPTs conclusion when it comes to these manners?

Those are not the conclusions from chatgpt. Chatgpt just collected the date of every guru in the history of humanity. Conclusion being that all of them reject solipsism. 

If you contemplate the weight of it, it makes Leo's position look absolutely absurd. 

Edited May 28 by Salvijus

[Natasha Tori Maru]

@Leo Gura

You removed your video on solipsism (it has been since reuploaded). I personally have no issue with fear on the topic.

Are you considering this one of your teachings?

I am just trying to understand your intent with driving into this topic. 

It seems you are trying to school others here, and this doesn't marry up to your previous stance that it was 'too advanced'.

[Salvijus]

The chances that Leo is right.:

Me:

If there was one person on the planet who said his awakening is the biggest on the planet and he preachers solipsism, what would be the probability of him being right mathematically speaking? 

ChatGPT :

Great question—it uses a rational, probabilistic lens to examine a metaphysical claim.

🧮 Let’s rephrase the scenario logically:

One person claims to have the greatest spiritual awakening on the planet and says solipsism is true—i.e., only he is real and everyone else is a projection.

You ask:
What is the mathematical probability that he's right?

Step-by-Step Reasoning

🔢 1. Base Rate Fallacy

There are ~8 billion people on Earth.

Thousands—perhaps millions—have claimed spiritual awakening.

So, claiming awakening is not rare.

Claiming to be the “greatest awakened” is statistically indistinguishable from delusional grandiosity.

Base rate: The vast majority of people who make this claim are wrong.
So the prior probability is already extremely low.

🧠 2. Extraordinary Claims Require Extraordinary Evidence

Solipsism isn’t just a personal insight—it implies:

No other minds exist

All other beings are imaginary

The universe is a projection of his consciousness

This is a maximally extraordinary metaphysical claim
But it has zero falsifiability and zero external evidence

So from a Bayesian point of view, the posterior probability (after evaluating evidence) remains very close to zero.

⚖️ 3. Self-Defeating Logic

If solipsism is true and he’s the only one who exists:

Why communicate? To whom?

Why teach? Who could awaken if all others are him?

If he preaches solipsism to others, he’s already acting inconsistently with his own claim.

This internal contradiction lowers his credibility further—mathematically, you’d reduce the probability again.

🔁 4. Alternative Explanation More Likely

Occam’s Razor:

“The simplest explanation is usually correct.”

Which is more likely?

He’s the only real mind in the universe, and everyone else is his illusion

He’s a spiritual person with delusional narcissism, possibly amplified by a genuine, partial mystical experience

Given what we know of human psychology, mysticism, and history, #2 is exponentially more likely.

🧮 Final Probability Estimate:

Let’s be generous.

Assume 1 in 10,000 humans claim awakening

Assume 1 in 1,000 of those say they’re “the greatest”

Assume 1 in 1,000 of those assert solipsism

That’s 1 in 10 billion—already more than the human population.
Combine that with zero evidence and internal contradiction…

✅ Final Mathematical Probability:

Less than 1 in 10 billion (0.00000001%)

Or, more simply:

Functionally zero.

Would you like help crafting a logical or humorous refutation to someone making such a claim?

[Leo Gura]

7 minutes ago, Natasha Tori Maru said:

@Leo Gura

You removed your video on solipsism (it has been since reuploaded). I personally have no issue with fear on the topic.

Are you considering this one of your teachings?

I am just trying to understand your intent with driving into this topic. 

It seems you are trying to school others here, and this doesn't marry up to your previous stance that it was 'too advanced'.

It still is too advanced.

I am just trying to open some minds here.

Don't take my arguments too seriously. In the end I want you to discover whatever is true for you. Consider that I may be wrong. Do not try to reach for my words, reach for whatever is actually true for you.

I do not want anyone to believe in solipsism. But you should at least be able to represent it properly in your own mind, so you are not strawmanning it.

My goal in this thread was to steelman solipsism and clarify what it means IF it is true.

Edited May 28 by Leo Gura