The Implications of a World Basic Income

[Eskilon]

Let's contemplate this, feel free to share your thoughts and the like. Some questions that I feel are interesting below.

- Will people get lazy(or be more lazy) and hedonistic if their basic material conditions were fulfilled? Or, will they actually pursue their hobbies, which by the way might not just be hobbies, but an actual passion that they didn't commit in life because of fear, lack of introspection, soul searching, and also self-honesty.

- Do you think the average human is ambitious enough to go out of their way, and work their ass off if basic material conditions were taken care of?

- Will this income slow technological innovation and progress?

- Will a world basic income, alleviate survival pressure on people, so that they can pursue spiritual development and growth?

- Lastly, if it were implemented, would it do more good than harm overall?

 

Edited May 19 by Eskilon

[Puer Aeternus]

2 hours ago, Eskilon said:

- Will people get lazy(or be more lazy) and hedonistic if their basic material conditions were fulfilled? Or, will they actually pursue their hobbies, which by the way might not just be hobbies, but an actual passion that they didn't commit in life because of fear, lack of introspection, soul searching, and also self-honesty.

I think people would go in both directions honestly- it would be super mixed. The idea that everyone will just self-actualize if they had UBI is myth. People will still have their old habits from before, transitioning out of them isn't a given! Although this would be short term, hard to say long term. If people would become more active in time as new generations came about?

 

2 hours ago, Eskilon said:

- Will this income slow technological innovation and progress?

Maybe, if AI and robots or some other thing cannot replace the productivity of the lost workforce. However, the people driving innovation are probably pretty ambitious and wouldn't be as tempted to go the lazy route. So I don't think they'd stop doing their thing. There might be even more ideas as UBI would give even more people time to think up big ideas and work without worrying on their survival.

[LoneWonderer]

Many cultures and traditions would be disrupted as work is an essential part of many cultures sensmaking. You remove work and many people will lose their ground. Depression will be rampant, abuse in the home, substance abuse, suicides etc. society is structured around work and we aren't prepared for a work free society. One example is the country of Kuwait in which people are paid a UBI just to be a citizen of the country. Depression and meaningless is rampant in Kuwait.

However not all is bad news. This would force a massive evolution worldwide and send shockwaves everywhere. Eventually we will figure it out but not before a lot of darkness get's dealt with and we all upgrade our sensemaking and epistemology. With all this free time on our hands it will be a perfect opportunity for people to learn and actualize their lives, however probably in the first 10+ years only a few will attempt this. Realistically UBI will not be implemented immediately worldwide but slowly country by country over the span of 20-50 years with more developed nations leading the way such as the Scandinavian nations. Places like Africa might never see UBI.

Edited May 20 by LoneWonderer

[BlueOak]

I think we need to separate out the immediate 6 months after UBI and the rest of it, which I can attest if you do nothing for 6 months, your life is going to stagnate and to remain neutral here: not have a positive feeling state attached to it.

While many would vegetate and relax, recuperating for a time, eventually, they would do something. Some would continue to dull their emotions through addictions, some would travel, some would do hobbies which may or may not pay etc.

If I had oversight over all of this rather than UBI, I would simply eliminate the tasks people hate and what causes them undue suffering in the workplace.  Not suffering which encourages personal growth, but stagnating repetitive suffering. I would take surveys, gather data and focus on the worst areas. I can say in the UK workplace, this has gone the opposite way for 20 years. People are more stressed, have more to do, less money available, and less time. But I don't have a handle on everyone's experience, only my own. 

I could theorize 90% of factory workers don't want to be there on a production line. That's obvious to me, and the repetition, while it has some positive benefits to regulating behaviour and structure in life, is also soul-destroying for many people. I could say the same of 50% of office tasks.

Overwhelm is a factor for a lot of workers, and while there is growth in being able to handle multiple tasks at once, it ultimately leads to tiredness, stress and an unfufilling life.

 

[Eskilon]

17 hours ago, Puer Aeternus said:

I think people would go in both directions honestly- it would be super mixed. The idea that everyone will just self-actualize if they had UBI is myth. People will still have their old habits from before, transitioning out of them isn't a given! Although this would be short term, hard to say long term.

I do share you view on this too. I don't think people wil just self-actualize if they were given time. People are too unserious to care.

 

17 hours ago, Puer Aeternus said:

Maybe, if AI and robots or some other thing cannot replace the productivity of the lost workforce.

Yes, this a significant concern. All the low-end jobs will basically go extinct, how would the economy react? I don't know yet.

[Eskilon]

16 hours ago, LoneWonderer said:

Many cultures and traditions would be disrupted as work is an essential part of many cultures sensmaking. You remove work and many people will lose their ground. Depression will be rampant, abuse in the home, substance abuse, suicides etc. society is structured around work and we aren't prepared for a work free society. One example is the country of Kuwait in which people are paid a UBI just to be a citizen of the country. Depression and meaningless is rampant in Kuwait.

Yes, I can see that happening too; people are survival zombies. Work play into people's identity, if you remove that, it's like you are killing them; even though most of them are not in their right work(life purpose).

 

16 hours ago, LoneWonderer said:

However not all is bad news. This would force a massive evolution worldwide and send shockwaves everywhere. Eventually we will figure it out but not before a lot of darkness get's dealt with and we all upgrade our sensemaking and epistemology. With all this free time on our hands it will be a perfect opportunity for people to learn and actualize their lives, however probably in the first 10+ years only a few will attempt this. Realistically UBI will not be implemented immediately worldwide but slowly country by country over the span of 20-50 years with more developed nations leading the way such as the Scandinavian nations. Places like Africa might never see UBI.

I think too gradation is the safest and the more reasonable strategy.

Edited May 20 by Eskilon

[Eskilon]

8 hours ago, BlueOak said:

If I had oversight over all of this rather than UBI, I would simply eliminate the tasks people hate and what causes them undue suffering in the workplace.  Not suffering which encourages personal growth, but stagnating repetitive suffering. I would take surveys, gather data and focus on the worst areas. I can say in the UK workplace, this has gone the opposite way for 20 years. People are more stressed, have more to do, less money available, and less time. But I don't have a handle on everyone's experience, only my own. 

I could theorize 90% of factory workers don't want to be there on a production line. That's obvious to me, and the repetition, while it has some positive benefits to regulating behaviour and structure in life, is also soul-destroying for many people. I could say the same of 50% of office tasks.

Overwhelm is a factor for a lot of workers, and while there is growth in being able to handle multiple tasks at once, it ultimately leads to tiredness, stress and an unfufilling life.

Hmm, never thought about eliminating just the mundane and 'boring' aspect of activities.

This could be good too, but I don't think it matches the power of an UBI, because even if you are unemployed or if you never worked in your life you would get money.

[Hayato]

On 5/20/2025 at 0:00 AM, Eskilon said:

- Will people get lazy(or be more lazy) and hedonistic if their basic material conditions were fulfilled?

Some will some won't.

 

On 5/20/2025 at 0:00 AM, Eskilon said:

- Do you think the average human is ambitious enough to go out of their way, and work their ass off if basic material conditions were taken care of?

Just because the material conditions are taken care of doesn't mean that people will be rich. People always have dreams and desire more than what they currently have, with an UBI they will be more free to pursue them.

It would reduce conflict as a lot of crimes are done from people who are just trying to survive.

[LastThursday]

I think it's impossible to know the consequences of UBI.

I don't think capitalism would allow UBI to ever be an income you can live on, you would still have to work. In the UK at least you can get benefit payments if you're out of work, which UBI would replace ultimately, the difference being that everyone would be eligible, working or not.

It could be argued that rich people should not get UBI, because the money for it needs to come from somewhere. But the universal aspect of UBI suggests that anyone and everyone should receive it. I think that's the only way to make it work, but you could have an opt-in system for UBI instead - many would probably not opt-in because it would not make much difference to them.

One probable consequence is that working wages will drop all around by the amount of UBI everyone gets.  So yes, you'll always have a baseline level of income, but if you choose to work, you're no better off than before UBI, unless it's low paid work.

I do think that UBI will help the poorest in society and to uplift them and will have positive repercussions for society in general.

Some people will want to continue working, some won't. It could free people up to be more social and get together more often, it may produce a more friendly and cohesive society. It may free people up to follow their passions and be more creative. Ultimately, UBI will give people more choice and hence more freedom to live their lives how they want to.

Edited May 23 by LastThursday

[Eskilon]

9 hours ago, LastThursday said:

I don't think capitalism would allow UBI to ever be an income you can live on, you would still have to work

One scenario that I can see UBI working is if we get along well with AI so they could do all the low abstraction work while we self-actualize. But that will require a tremendous ammount of energy to support those robots and AIs.

[Eskilon]

9 hours ago, Hayato said:

People always have dreams and desire more than what they currently have

Some do, some don't.

 

9 hours ago, Hayato said:

It would reduce conflict as a lot of crimes are done from people who are just trying to survive.

For sure.