The responsibility of understanding Truth

[PolyPeter]

Hi Forum!!! I hope y'all doing good.

I want to ask something that has been bugging me.

So, in order to understand what Truth means, one must, at some point, accept that one does not understand Truth. 

To do this, there should at least be a level of self-reflection and ego-dissolution involved. To not know something and to accept the discomfort of that, requires at least some level of honesty and acceptance of one's own lack of understanding.

The question is: How do I communicate to other humans the importance of Truth itself, the importance of trying to know Truth on your own, the importance of being smart enough to learn what method you should use to know the Truth, and the many facets of coming up with a solid answer?

I'm reading all the comments!!!

thanks. 

 

BTW: I claim that I have already come to a solid answer, which is not the usual "there is no absolute truth, everything is relative you know, everyone is coming from different background so what is true for them, that's true, and what is scientifically accepted, that's the objective truth". I'm past that bs. What I want to discuss here, is the different methods for communicating the methods and the importance of truth-seeking itself. Also, the distinction between Absolute truth and relative truth are a little bit controversial within my mind, since if something is true, then that's the truth! and should be always the truth regardless of anything else.

 

PD: Truth = Consciousness = What is = Existence = I am

 

Edited Monday at 05:27 PM by PolyPeter

[theleelajoker]

15 minutes ago, PolyPeter said:

The question is: How do I communicate to other humans the importance of Truth itself, the importance of trying to know Truth on your own, the importance of being smart enough to learn what method you should use to know the Truth, and the many facets of coming up with a solid answer?

 

1. Do it yourself. Just do you.
2. To not try to communicate it. Let people disvover it on their own. If they are ready, they will ask for guidance. If not ready, you waste your engery and get frustrated in the process. 
3. Why do I think that? Personal experience. Many failures in trying to convey messages. The psycological concept of reactance comes to my mind.

 

[Hojo]

According to your logic they need dissolution.So God is truth

The answer would logically follow that you need to tell them Gods not real.

Edited Monday at 06:43 PM by Hojo

[Sugarcoat]

1 hour ago, PolyPeter said:

How do I communicate to other humans the importance of Truth

You had me until this part

[PolyPeter]

1 hour ago, theleelajoker said:

1. Do it yourself. Just do you.
2. To not try to communicate it. Let people disvover it on their own. If they are ready, they will ask for guidance. If not ready, you waste your engery and get frustrated in the process. 
3. Why do I think that? Personal experience. Many failures in trying to convey messages. The psycological concept of reactance comes to my mind.

 

Hi! 

This answer reminds me of the following, "If I say a word, I am a liar, but if I stay silent, I am a coward"

What do you do when you find something really important within the relative domain, like, let's say, a technological discovery? it follows naturally in most cases that you might want to share this discovery. 

Finding a way to clean dirty water, through the creation of filtering machines, is important in the relative domain as it enhances access to clean water, really important for human survival. 

Finding a way to enhance mental health, by communicating to people that being 24/7 on your computer/phone will destroy your body (and mind), and that going out and exercising is important for your mind and body.

Why then, you will make a difference with existential health? this is a term I just invented, but think about the following:

Finding a way to resolve existential issues like: "what I am, who I am, and what is this universe I seem to be immersed in?"  cannot be addressed with the common materialistic tools, within mainstream psychology, enlightenment is not even mentioned.

I know that Truth must not serve a purpose, since it is not the consequence of anything else, Truth is what is. 

I also understand the part of not being ready to understand truth, but it does not make truth itself untrue. 

If truth isn't the most important thing in the universe, you are saying that there is something else, and if it is not truth, then it has to do with survival, some way or another.

 

[PolyPeter]

38 minutes ago, Hojo said:

 

According to your logic they need dissolution.So God is truth

The answer would logically follow that you need to tell them Gods not real.

 

They might not need dissolution at first, but just curiosity, dissolution might be too much for someone that clings strongly to their ego self. curiosity to learn what is actually happening is no different than curiosity to understand in general. if you are not a curious being, what tools do you have to become more loving, smart or wise? 

I dont understand what you mean to tell them Gods not real. You mean it like in a provocative manner? 

I know that God is real, in fact, God is Reality. God is The I Am, God is Truth. 

[PolyPeter]

40 minutes ago, Sugarcoat said:

You had me until this part

Can you elaborate? maybe I am not being clear enough. English is my second language.

[Hojo]

@PolyPeter 

2 hours ago, PolyPeter said:

So, in order to understand what Truth means, one must, at some point, accept that one does not understand Truth. 

To do this, there should at least be a level of self-reflection and ego-dissolution involved. To not know something and to accept the discomfort of that, requires at least some level of honesty and acceptance of one's own lack of understanding.

 

Truth = God

They already know God you are trying to get them to disassociate from God to see God. You cant not know God.

The way to do this is to tell them God is not real and they are going to die and stop existing. Thats the dissolution. This is to strike fear into them and that will cause a thought and then you are done.

You have to make them see that they dont know what they are looking at.

Edited Monday at 07:31 PM by Hojo

[aurum]

2 hours ago, PolyPeter said:

The question is: How do I communicate to other humans the importance of Truth itself, the importance of trying to know Truth on your own, the importance of being smart enough to learn what method you should use to know the Truth, and the many facets of coming up with a solid answer?

Convincing other humans about truth-seeking is mostly self-deception.

My solution is to be extremely selective about when and how I share Truth.

[PolyPeter]

1 minute ago, Hojo said:

tell them God is not real and they are going to die and stop existing

I don't rule out that telling something to some one might kill them, but, have you ever done it before and succeeded? 
In my experience, telling people that God is not real only leads them to "how do you know" kinda replies

how does it work for you?

[Hojo]

@PolyPeterI dont do that but I am not trying to get people to see God I just try to make them feel better about dying cause they are already scared. You cant convince people to see God and to do it in ordinary conversations wont work and they wont like it. They are doing it themselves.

If someone brings up dying I say it might be the coolest thing we ever experience we dont know to make them feel better.

I am saying what you want to do based on what you asked is to convince them God is not real and they are going to die and never exist again.

Edited Monday at 07:42 PM by Hojo

[PolyPeter]

6 minutes ago, aurum said:

Convincing other humans about truth-seeking is mostly self-deception.

My solution is to be extremely selective about when and how I share Truth.

I agree, and I am not trying to convince anyone. I am trying to communicate some key insights for them, if they want to and feel ready, look for themselves. To encourage in a not-invasive, not-egocentric manner, that truth-seeking on its own is worth of something, even though at first it might not seem that way or feel "good". In order to recontextualise what the present moment is, as God.

Do you mind sharing your criteria for that selective people you choose to share Truth with?

Edited Monday at 07:38 PM by PolyPeter

[Sugarcoat]

21 minutes ago, PolyPeter said:

Can you elaborate? maybe I am not being clear enough. English is my second language.

I meant that I don’t agree with trying to convince people to pursue truth. Most that do that, just have an intellectual truth anyways

[Hojo]

You can see God through intellect. Its a definition for something you currently dont have a definition for. The gurus do it the reason they can do it is cause they can see your intellect and tell you something you need to complete the definition.

Edited Monday at 07:53 PM by Hojo

[PolyPeter]

2 minutes ago, Sugarcoat said:

I meant that I don’t agree with trying to convince people to pursue truth. Most that do that, just have an intellectual truth anyways

hmmm I see the point.

I am not trying to convince anyone. 

Convincing someone implies that you are not sure about what you are talking about and that your grounds are not entirely true, therefore you have to conceptually maneuver their minds into thinking a certain way.

I am asking for ways to show that truth does not need convincing, it is a matter of validating within your own experience what is already there, not to put more lies on top. 

Truth is not about believing.

[Hojo]

@PolyPeter If you were doing that you wouldnt be engaging you would just answer questions if they asked.

Are you asking how to answer questions to something you know?

Edited Monday at 07:55 PM by Hojo

[Sugarcoat]

1 minute ago, PolyPeter said:

hmmm I see the point.

I am not trying to convince anyone. 

Convincing someone implies that you are not sure about what you are talking about and that your grounds are not entirely true, therefore you have to conceptually maneuver their minds into thinking a certain way.

I am asking for ways to show that truth does not need convincing, it is a matter of validating within your own experience what is already there, not to put more lies on top. 

Truth is not about believing.

You feel people are missing out if they don’t pursue truth? And you wanna help them? I mean it’s not bad to wanna introduce people to spirituality. But one can do so in a way that doesn’t seem forced

[theleelajoker]

35 minutes ago, PolyPeter said:

Hi! 

This answer reminds me of the following, "If I say a word, I am a liar, but if I stay silent, I am a coward"

What do you do when you find something really important within the relative domain, like, let's say, a technological discovery? it follows naturally in most cases that you might want to share this discovery. 

Finding a way to clean dirty water, through the creation of filtering machines, is important in the relative domain as it enhances access to clean water, really important for human survival. 

Finding a way to enhance mental health, by communicating to people that being 24/7 on your computer/phone will destroy your body (and mind), and that going out and exercising is important for your mind and body.

Why then, you will make a difference with existential health? this is a term I just invented, but think about the following:

Finding a way to resolve existential issues like: "what I am, who I am, and what is this universe I seem to be immersed in?"  cannot be addressed with the common materialistic tools, within mainstream psychology, enlightenment is not even mentioned.

I know that Truth must not serve a purpose, since it is not the consequence of anything else, Truth is what is. 

I also understand the part of not being ready to understand truth, but it does not make truth itself untrue. 

If truth isn't the most important thing in the universe, you are saying that there is something else, and if it is not truth, then it has to do with survival, some way or another.

 

Yes I feel like sharing too. But I learn to see it like that: The knowledge about basically everything is already there. Everybody can read Stanislav Grov, Yogasutra, Buddhas teachings, etc etc etc. Everybody could so shadow work, therapy, meditation etc.

But few are doing it. So why is the world they way it is? Because everything is a process. Same reason it took me many years and different people for me to slowly wake up (still doing that, oc). 

It's like playing a puzzle. Imagine you come and tell this person how to do this. No fun for nobody. If they ask for support - that's sth else.
I also like Alan Watts quote: "When you dance, you don't dance to get to the other side if the room as fast as possible. You dance to dance".

Edited Monday at 07:57 PM by theleelajoker

[aurum]

21 minutes ago, PolyPeter said:

Do you mind sharing your criteria for that selective people you choose to share Truth with?

I use the vampire strategy.

Meaning, I have to sense an invitation or at least an implicit opening from them. Kind of like vampires entering people's houses.

Also, I prioritize my own clarity of mind above everything else. Including helping others.

If you place helping others above your own clarity, you've just fallen into self-deception.

[PolyPeter]

15 minutes ago, Hojo said:

Are you asking how to answer questions to something you know?

I am asking what questions I can ask to start the thought process that would lead to truth-seeking 

I know how to present different methods to maximize this process, but it is worth nothing if the mind is not even interested in seeking truth in the first place. Some people confuse Truth with their own perspectives, and that is what I want to be able to communicate. The difference between subjective experience, filtered through the Ego, and Absolute Truth, what allows for this experience to even exist in the first place. 

Being is not questionable! in the sense that if you question it, you fall into weird paradoxes.

How can I doubt my own experience? for that I have to first be able to doubt. and for there to be a thing creating the doubt, there should definitely be something to be aware of the doubt.

Therefore, you can doubt your own self, but you cannot doubt your shared Being. 

One cannot force Truth or Awareness onto nothing or nobody, if you talk to a rock telling them "you are God", the rock cannot even listen to your human words, so, pointless in that case. But I am talking about human communication in particular.

I'm thinking deeply about your ideas