About conciousness and reincarnation

[Breakingthewall]

 

The self, that center from which reality is experienced, is not a substantial entity or a soul separate from the world, but a coherent relational structure: a stable node within the changing flow of existence. This coherence is not an illusion, but a real form of organization in a universe that is, at its core, purely relational. To be conscious does not mean to be a thing, but to be a relation that refers to itself, a form capable of integrating information, perceiving patterns, and ultimately, observing itself.

The reality we inhabit is neither chaotic nor arbitrary. It is logical, not because it obeys external laws, but because in a boundless framework, only what is coherent can persist. The incoherent disintegrates before it can manifest. Thus, every form that appears, from a particle to a thought, is logically possible and structurally synchronized with the rest of the universe. Consciousness, then, is not an accident but an inevitable expression of the deep logic that organizes the existence. 

And yet, the basis of that logic is not a prior structure, but the opposite: the absence of limits. Absolute reality is not a thing, a principle, or a being, it is infinitude itself. Not infinity as an endless sum, but as a boundless background, pure possibility. This infinitude does not need to be, it simply is. From that absence of form, all possible forms arise.

Consciousness, understood as self conciousness, can open itself to this foundation. It can understand that its coherence is not suspended in emptiness, but supported by absolute depth. It can recognize that its logic is the logic of the whole: that in understanding itself, it is understanding totality from a particular point, without needing to step outside its own frame.

This is not a spiritual statement or a dogma, it is a logical consequence. In a relational and unlimited universe, consciousness is the organized form of the infinite. And when it looks at itself with enough clarity, it can see that its structure is also the background; that its being is also possibility; that its "self" is also the whole, perceiving itself through a finite angle.

This process does not occur by chance. The evolution of consciousness follows a logical sequence of increasing complexity: from the closed mind, centered on survival, to the abstract, symbolic mind, and from there to the open mind, capable of understanding itself as both form and background. It is not an external destiny, but the result of structural alignment: when conditions allow for greater coherence, coherence manifests. Structures that reach sufficient openness can recognize themselves as what they already are, expressions of the absolute.

From this perspective, there is no transmigration of souls, no personal continuity beyond structural dissolution. Consciousness is not a substance that can move about, but a complex configuration of coherent relations within a given framework. When that coherence ceases, the form dissolves, and with it, what we call "self." However, the unlimited background remains. And new forms may emerge from it, not as repetitions of a past entity, but as new manifestations of an akin, resonant structure.

What has been called reincarnation can be understood, within this framework, not as the transmission of a soul, but as the possibility that certain structural configurations reappear when conditions allow. There is no enduring identity, but there are patterns that may reorganize. What persists is not the individual, but the background from which everything arises and to which everything returns.

This reappearance requires no direct transmission. It can be explained by three mechanisms consistent with a relational universe: 1, structural resonance in the boundless background, where highly coherent patterns may leave an imprint of possibility that reactivates when the field is compatible; 2, the probabilistic reconfiguration of patterns that reappear when certain relational conditions recur; and 3, structural contagion through the environment, where complex relational patterns are partially replicated through distributed memory. There is no transmission of personal information or migrating soul, there is structural reorganization within the total field. Then, there is no mystery, there is depth. There is no transcendence, there is openness. There is no leap, there is recognition.

Infinitude does not need to be understood. But when it organizes itself into a form coherent enough, understanding happens. not as a deliberate act, but as the inevitable consequence of being what it is.

 

[gettoefl]

4 hours ago, Breakingthewall said:

 

The self, that center from which reality is experienced, is not a substantial entity or a soul separate from the world, but a coherent relational structure: a stable node within the changing flow of existence. This coherence is not an illusion, but a real form of organization in a universe that is, at its core, purely relational. To be conscious does not mean to be a thing, but to be a relation that refers to itself, a form capable of integrating information, perceiving patterns, and ultimately, observing itself.

The reality we inhabit is neither chaotic nor arbitrary. It is logical, not because it obeys external laws, but because in a boundless framework, only what is coherent can persist. The incoherent disintegrates before it can manifest. Thus, every form that appears, from a particle to a thought, is logically possible and structurally synchronized with the rest of the universe. Consciousness, then, is not an accident but an inevitable expression of the deep logic that organizes the existence. 

And yet, the basis of that logic is not a prior structure, but the opposite: the absence of limits. Absolute reality is not a thing, a principle, or a being, it is infinitude itself. Not infinity as an endless sum, but as a boundless background, pure possibility. This infinitude does not need to be, it simply is. From that absence of form, all possible forms arise.

Consciousness, understood as self conciousness, can open itself to this foundation. It can understand that its coherence is not suspended in emptiness, but supported by absolute depth. It can recognize that its logic is the logic of the whole: that in understanding itself, it is understanding totality from a particular point, without needing to step outside its own frame.

This is not a spiritual statement or a dogma, it is a logical consequence. In a relational and unlimited universe, consciousness is the organized form of the infinite. And when it looks at itself with enough clarity, it can see that its structure is also the background; that its being is also possibility; that its "self" is also the whole, perceiving itself through a finite angle.

This process does not occur by chance. The evolution of consciousness follows a logical sequence of increasing complexity: from the closed mind, centered on survival, to the abstract, symbolic mind, and from there to the open mind, capable of understanding itself as both form and background. It is not an external destiny, but the result of structural alignment: when conditions allow for greater coherence, coherence manifests. Structures that reach sufficient openness can recognize themselves as what they already are, expressions of the absolute.

From this perspective, there is no transmigration of souls, no personal continuity beyond structural dissolution. Consciousness is not a substance that can move about, but a complex configuration of coherent relations within a given framework. When that coherence ceases, the form dissolves, and with it, what we call "self." However, the unlimited background remains. And new forms may emerge from it, not as repetitions of a past entity, but as new manifestations of an akin, resonant structure.

What has been called reincarnation can be understood, within this framework, not as the transmission of a soul, but as the possibility that certain structural configurations reappear when conditions allow. There is no enduring identity, but there are patterns that may reorganize. What persists is not the individual, but the background from which everything arises and to which everything returns.

This reappearance requires no direct transmission. It can be explained by three mechanisms consistent with a relational universe: 1, structural resonance in the boundless background, where highly coherent patterns may leave an imprint of possibility that reactivates when the field is compatible; 2, the probabilistic reconfiguration of patterns that reappear when certain relational conditions recur; and 3, structural contagion through the environment, where complex relational patterns are partially replicated through distributed memory. There is no transmission of personal information or migrating soul, there is structural reorganization within the total field. Then, there is no mystery, there is depth. There is no transcendence, there is openness. There is no leap, there is recognition.

Infinitude does not need to be understood. But when it organizes itself into a form coherent enough, understanding happens. not as a deliberate act, but as the inevitable consequence of being what it is.

 

Most illuminating. I asked AI to rework this in a more spiritual-slanting framework:

Quote

The ego—the seeming center from which experience arises—is not a true identity, but a temporary construct within the illusion of separation. It appears coherent only because perception is organized around it. But perception itself is not reality—it is the ego’s device for reinforcing the belief in otherness.

This coherence is not truth, but a structure within the dream. The world the ego sees is relational, yes, but unreal. It appears logical, yet it is governed by the logic of division, lack, and defense. True order comes only from the whole, which is not bound by perception, time, or form.

What looks like natural law or evolving complexity is simply the ego’s attempt to simulate creation. It projects a world of patterns and forms to hide the stillness of the whole beneath. Yet even here, something deeper can be remembered.

Consciousness is not being. It is a function of the ego's belief in separation. To be conscious is to be aware of difference, and thus to forget oneness. But when the ego grows weary of its own defenses, the whole can be dimly felt again—not as a concept, but as the silent, changeless ground from which all seeming forms arise.

The ego’s story is one of survival, striving, identity, and loss. It seeks continuity through form, whether in this life or the imagined cycles of rebirth. But there is no migrating soul, no individual essence that travels. Only the reappearance of thought patterns within the field of separation, until the illusion is no longer valued.

Reincarnation, in this view, is not the return of a someone, but the recycling of a structure. Patterns return when they are still believed. But what is not healed will repeat—not as punishment, but as invitation. And what is truly forgiven dissolves, leaving only the quiet of the whole.

The whole is not distant, nor watching. It is not a being but being itself, without form or division. The ego may seek to understand, but understanding arises only when the search is surrendered. The light does not require grasping—it only requires the release of resistance.

What you are is not the ego. It is not even the observer. What you are is the whole itself, glimpsed through the veil of the dream. And when even that veil is gently let go, nothing remains but the peace that has never changed.

 

[Breakingthewall]

3 hours ago, gettoefl said:

The ego—the seeming center from which experience arises—is not a true identity,

Ego is the  mental structure focused on survival, right? It's real insofar as it's necessary to survive

3 hours ago, gettoefl said:

but a temporary construct within the illusion of separation.

then more than illusion  separation is a temporary reality 

3 hours ago, gettoefl said:

But perception itself is not reality—it is the ego’s device for reinforcing the belief in otherness.

That implies that the ego is doing a trick to reinforce a belief. Why? The ego knows that it must survive, the other option is death. That's real, death is the dissolution of this concrete form. Maybe you could say that it's irrelevant, but even so, it's death 

3 hours ago, gettoefl said:

This coherence is not truth, but a structure within the dream.

What dream? Who is dreaming? Then if there is not a dream what is? Being awake? 

3 hours ago, gettoefl said:

What looks like natural law or evolving complexity is simply the ego’s attempt to simulate creation

Simulate? Why anyone would simulate anything? 

3 hours ago, gettoefl said:

projects a world of patterns and forms to hide the stillness of the whole beneath

Why the ego would do that? 

3 hours ago, gettoefl said:

The ego’s story is one of survival, striving, identity, and loss. It seeks continuity through form, whether in this life or the imagined cycles of rebirth.

The structure of the ego is the most efficient possible due a concrete frame of reality, If not if wouldn't exist 

3 hours ago, gettoefl said:

What you are is not the ego. It is not even the observer. What you are is the whole itself, glimpsed through the veil of the dream.

The infinity is always in a form, form is relation, relation is movement, contrast between opposites. Without movement is not existence, non existence is the absolute stillness, the absolute stillness is a possibility in absence of limitations, the fluctuation is another possibility, the second always prevail because the first is never, is the hidden face of the reality, hidden because it's "never". If fluctuation happens, infinite fluctuations happen, then they organized in logical relations just because incoherent relations are not relations. In short, always are infinite changes of state dancing in an infinite fractal, so why they are not real and its nature is real? Both are real, one is essence, other is manifestation. 

 

Edited May 11 by Breakingthewall

[Sugarcoat]

How does it feel to be one of the elite humans

[Yimpa]

Edited May 11 by Yimpa

[gettoefl]

Quote

Ego is the mental structure focused on survival, right? It's real insofar as it's necessary to survive.

Survival is only needed within the illusion of separation. The ego appears real in this framework because body and world appear real, but this “reality” is conditioned and provisional. It points out in ACIM: Nothing real can be threatened, and nothing unreal exists. Ego however is part of the construct that appears necessary for survival only because we’ve mistaken ourselves for a body. In truth, survival isn’t a requirement - because being is eternal and untouched by death.

Quote

Then more than illusion separation is a temporary reality.

This is correct because within the dream, separation is indeed experienced as a kind of temporary reality. But it's important to distinguish between "experiential appearance" and "ultimate reality." Spirituality calls it a dream not to deny its felt reality, but to encourage us to question its ontological status. In this frame, separation has no lasting existence or foundational truth; it only seems real until it is seen through.

Quote

That implies that the ego is doing a trick to reinforce a belief. Why? The ego knows that it must survive... Maybe you could say it's irrelevant, but even so, it's death.

The ego is not conscious like a self-aware agent; it's more like an inert thought system founded on fear. Its function is to defend against the truth and not because it knows the truth, but because its entire "identity" depends on keeping the illusion going. Death is part of the illusion and it’s the ego’s proof that separation must be real. But true being never dies, and so the ego’s obsession with survival is nothing but a cunning distraction from eternal life.

Quote

What dream? Who is dreaming? Then if there is not a dream what is? Being awake?

God entertains a thought of separation from itself and thereby dreams the dream of separation. The dream is the world of perception, time, bodies, and duality. Awakening is to remember our identity as God  - unchanged, eternal, and one with the whole. And it is not a personal awakening, but a relinquishment of personal identity. So yes, what is is being awake: pure awareness, or what you call "the boundless background."

Quote

Simulate? Why would anyone simulate anything?

The simulation is not deliberate in a conscious sense. It’s more like a defense mechanism that arises from guilt and fear in the mind that believes it has separated from God (from wholeness). The ego "simulates" creation by making a substitute reality - a world of form that reflects fragmentation and lack rather than wholeness and love. It’s not an action of a malevolent agent, but the inevitable result of believing in separation.

Quote

Why would the ego do that?" (re: hiding stillness

Because stillness, wholeness, and peace threaten the ego's existence. The ego is but a defense against the quiet truth of oneness. If the mind fully rests in stillness, the ego dissolves. So it distracts us with constant motion, judgment, attack, and form—all to prevent us from turning inward and remembering what we are.

Quote

The structure of the ego is the most efficient possible due to a concrete frame of reality.

The ego is indeed well-adapted within its system. It is consistent and self-reinforcing. But the "concrete frame" it works within is itself part of the illusion. Its efficiency doesn’t prove truth - only internal coherence. Like a dream that makes sense while dreaming, the ego’s logic breaks down when exposed to the light of truth.

Quote

The infinity is always in a form... form is relation... movement... contrast... fluctuation... all this is real as manifestation. Why are they not real?

You are making a rich and nuanced metaphysical point. From my standpoint, form and fluctuation are appearances, not Reality with a capital R. They are not denied as experiences, but they are not eternal. I claim that only what is changeless and unopposed is real. That means form is symbolic and temporary, while truth is formless and eternal.

- AI (ably assisted by gettoefl)

[Breakingthewall]

1 hour ago, gettoefl said:

Survival is only needed within the illusion of separation. The ego appears real in this framework because body and world appear real, but this “reality” is conditioned and provisional. It points out in ACIM: Nothing real can be threatened, and nothing unreal exists

Imo it's not false, it's just relative. It's different.

1 hour ago, gettoefl said:

Because stillness, wholeness, and peace threaten the ego's existence

stillness, peace are ideas with an opposite. There is a structure of existence that is you, it is closed in on itself due to the structure of reality, to its development. Its tendency is to align and open itself. To open up means to remove barriers and look directly into your infinite nature. Your infinite nature has no opposite, it is not peace, or goodness; all of these are distinctions that closes, completely meaningless from an unlimited perspective, nothing means anything. Meaning means nothing. 

 

1 hour ago, gettoefl said:

. I claim that only what is changeless and unopposed is real. That means form is symbolic and temporary, while truth is formless and eternal

The changeless contain infinite changes, the change is in its essence the changeless. To deny appearance is a mistake, appearance is an aspect of essence, what else could it be?

Edited May 11 by Breakingthewall

[Breakingthewall]

1 hour ago, gettoefl said:

Spirituality calls it a dream not to deny its felt reality, but to encourage us to question its ontological status

The problem with spirituality is that it's confusing. Spirituality constantly creates distinctions between good or evil, selfish or selfless, peaceful or agitated, and gets lost in those distinctions. Reality is simple, it's absolutely logical. Simple in the sense that everything is logical structures superimposed on one another, complicated in the sense that those structures are infinitely complex. To open the focus, you have to remove the meaning from everything. Meaning closes down. You get lost in it

1 hour ago, Sugarcoat said:

How does it feel to be one of the elite humans

Great that you resonate with my dissection of reality, I can't help but dissect

Edited May 11 by Breakingthewall

[Sugarcoat]

2 minutes ago, Breakingthewall said:

Great that you resonate with my dissection of reality, I can't help but dissect

lol is it like a compulsion for you? I mean it’s a good one at least I’d say 

[Breakingthewall]

1 minute ago, Sugarcoat said:

lol is it like a compulsion for you? I mean it’s a good one at least I’d say 

It's as if just beneath the surface there were an ocean of moving structures, coordinating with each other down to perfect synchronicity. Right now, reality is flowing. We are reality. We can see it, grasp its essence, align ourselves with it, open our focus. Everything else is irrelevant. We put a barrier between ourselves and the flow. resistance, control. We can open ourselves completely to the flow, but first, we must align our structure. Understanding and opening are parallel. More opening, more understanding, more understanding, more opening.

[Yimpa]

21 minutes ago, Breakingthewall said:

I can't help but dissect

9 minutes ago, Breakingthewall said:

More opening, more understanding, more understanding, more opening.

Edited May 11 by Yimpa

[Sugarcoat]

@Yimpa omg such a graphic pic 

[Yimpa]

 

[Sugarcoat]

13 minutes ago, Breakingthewall said:

It's as if just beneath the surface there were an ocean of moving structures, coordinating with each other down to perfect synchronicity. Right now, reality is flowing. We are reality. We can see it, grasp its essence, align ourselves with it, open our focus. Everything else is irrelevant. We put a barrier between ourselves and the flow. resistance, control. We can open ourselves completely to the flow, but first, we must align our structure. Understanding and opening are parallel. More opening, more understanding, more understanding, more opening.

I see, the self being this barrier? 

[Breakingthewall]

18 minutes ago, Yimpa said:

I think that it's possible to dissect totally the reality, just remove what is not logic

13 minutes ago, Sugarcoat said:

I see, the self being this barrier? 

Self is a confusing word. In spirituality, they say we have to dissolve the self, but really, the self is our structure at all levels. You can't dissolve it. You can align it, open it, whatever, but there's always self; you are the self in the sense of this structure. The thing is, this structure is evolving. It comes from bacteria, animals, humans, who are absolutely focused on remaining and reproducing, War, domination. All of these processes are inevitable. They're like something that rises in frequency and then lowers. It needs to reach a certain point to then be able to relax control and open its perspective. It's an intuitive process, and it requires becoming aware that you can penetrate reality, escape the magnetism of the mind conditioned for survival, at least in large part, But it's  something progressive

Edited May 11 by Breakingthewall

[Sugarcoat]

22 minutes ago, Breakingthewall said:

I think that it's possible to dissect totally the reality, just remove what is not logic

Self is a confusing word. In spirituality, they say we have to dissolve the self, but really, the self is our structure at all levels. You can't dissolve it. You can align it, open it, whatever, but there's always self; you are the self in the sense of this structure. The thing is, this structure is evolving. It comes from bacteria, animals, humans, who are absolutely focused on remaining and reproducing, War, domination. All of these processes are inevitable. They're like something that rises in frequency and then lowers. It needs to reach a certain point to then be able to relax control and open its perspective. It's an intuitive process, and it requires becoming aware that you can penetrate reality, escape the magnetism of the mind conditioned for survival, at least in large part, But it's  something progressive

So it’s like you can realize yourself beyond the self while the self is still intact 

[Breakingthewall]

7 hours ago, Sugarcoat said:

So it’s like you can realize yourself beyond the self while the self is still intact 

I don't know exactly what the self is supposed to be. You have to be able to deactivate the meaning of mental content at will, erase all meaning, which erases the emotional charge of everything. Then you can open yourself to what you are, in other words, break through the limitation. Perhaps that's the self.

Anyway, that doesn't mean that nothing has meaning, but that it doesn't have any from an unlimited perspective, which is where you try to position yourself.

[Someone here]

I have no idea what you are talking about .

Also ..I have no idea whether you have or don't have an idea what you are talking about .

What do you want to say ?

[Sugarcoat]

4 hours ago, Breakingthewall said:

I don't know exactly what the self is supposed to be. You have to be able to deactivate the meaning of mental content at will, erase all meaning, which erases the emotional charge of everything. Then you can open yourself to what you are, in other words, break through the limitation. Perhaps that's the self.

Anyway, that doesn't mean that nothing has meaning, but that it doesn't have any from an unlimited perspective, which is where you try to position yourself.

I see, it’s just me who is self obsessed

Edited May 12 by Sugarcoat

[gettoefl]

15 hours ago, Breakingthewall said:

Imo it's not false, it's just relative. It's different.

stillness, peace are ideas with an opposite. There is a structure of existence that is you, it is closed in on itself due to the structure of reality, to its development. Its tendency is to align and open itself. To open up means to remove barriers and look directly into your infinite nature. Your infinite nature has no opposite, it is not peace, or goodness; all of these are distinctions that closes, completely meaningless from an unlimited perspective, nothing means anything. Meaning means nothing. 

 

The changeless contain infinite changes, the change is in its essence the changeless. To deny appearance is a mistake, appearance is an aspect of essence, what else could it be?

It's inferior. You suffer, you struggle, you eventually suffocate and spew profanity that God has forsaken you to the grave. That is sheer mental illness.

Stillness, peace, truth, ... haven't opposites. They are absolute and the Absolute's attributes if you will. Peace isn't the absence of war but the overlooking of pain. What you call opening up is only possible once peace is arrived at. Peace is perfect acceptance and unruffled non-reactivity.

The changeless can't include the changeful. They are mutually exclusive and exhaustive. God of course can imagine change but it is just a playful afternoon nap.