Leo, do you think that Democrats should support right-wing economic policies?

[Emerald]

2 minutes ago, ExploringReality said:

Amen to Truth. Truth is the sword nobody wants to touch because it cuts both ways., people want to fight, bitch and defend an ideological position 

I only want to fight, bitch, and defend people who will get hurt if no one speaks up for them.

It's corruption to do anything less.

[Leo Gura]

To place political activism over truth is the definition of corruption.

It is sad that you are not conscious enough to understand something so obvious.

[Apparition of Jack]

Just now, Leo Gura said:

To place political activism over truth is the definition of corruption.

It is sad that you are not conscious enough to understand something so obvious.

- Mao Zedong 🤣🤣

[Hardkill]

1 hour ago, aurum said:

You are talking about elite, instituitonal, non-partisan media. They may have skewed liberal but barely.

And even that didn't last very long. Rush Limbaugh was already coming up in the 80s.

Pretty much.

The media environment used to be very centralized and relatively neutral. Before the 1980s-1990s, the internet and social media obviously never existed and there were only a very few amount of channels on the radio and on TV that had political commentary. Furthermore, every show on tv and radio that talked about politics had to present both left-wing and right-wing views on every single issue because of the Fairness Doctrine. That's it.

That helped create enough downward pressure on right-wing propaganda, which helped Democrats, liberals, and moderates get their message across clearly and helped keep the spread of misinformation in check.

[ExploringReality]

@Leo Gura

7 minutes ago, Leo Gura said:

You guys want me to sacrifice truth for your political activism, which I will never do.

I am sorry you don't understand why.

It is the overlooked obvious. Truth is not something the average person wants to burn in. The fire of Truth will strip you of all your bullshit. 

[Emerald]

8 minutes ago, Leo Gura said:

To place political activism over truth is the definition of corruption.

It is sad that you are not conscious enough to understand something so obvious.

So, you will be the person that sticks to the truth and tells the Nazis "There are Jews hiding in the basement."

It tells me a lot about you.

[Leo Gura]

18 minutes ago, Emerald said:

So, you will be the person that sticks to the truth and tells the Nazis "There are Jews hiding in the basement."

I don't particularly have a problem lying to others. That is irrelevant to the truth that actually matters. Human honesty is not the same as truth.

But what I will not do is play along with false leftist ideology just because you want to win elections. In fact, what you're not seeing is that the falsehood of leftist ideology will lose you elections. So in typical fashion, when you make your deal with the devil thinking it will win you power, you will lose both the truth and your election, and end up with nothing.

I don't claim to have perfect integrity, but I have enough to find your proposal disgustingly corrupt and it takes no effort for me to refuse it.

Yes, you should know that I would sacrifice human life for truth. Isn't that obvious by now?

Edited yesterday at 05:02 AM by Leo Gura

[Emerald]

8 minutes ago, Leo Gura said:

I don't particularly have a problem lying to others. That is irrelevant to the purpose the truth that that actually matters. Honesty is not the same as truth.

But what I will not do is play along with false leftist ideology just because you want to win elections. In fact, what you're not seeing is that the falsehood of leftist ideology will lose you elections. So in typical fashion, when you make your deal with the devil thinking it will win you power, you will lose both the truth and your election, and end up with nothing.

I don't claim to have perfect integrity, but I have enough to find your proposal disgustingly corrupt and it takes no effort for me to refuse it.

It's not about following a leftist ideology to win elections. In fact, if you're too ideological and wonky, you'll lose people.

It's about strategically framing acceptance and freedom as the normal "duh" positions.

And the cost of not doing that is TONS of human suffering... and the forces of corruption proliferating because there is no force keeping it in check. 

You can chalk a lot of the current sufferings up to the fact that the left neurotically tosses away power and the right neurotically hoards it.

In the tree of life, there are two polarities that roughly translate to "mercy" and "severity".

And if you polarize into severity, the forces of severity proliferate.

But if you polarize into mercy and integrate no severity, the forces of severity also proliferate because there is nothing keeping the forces of severity in check.

And it's precisely because people on the left are too high and mighty and smelling their own farts about "being good" to wield something as gauche as power, that there is nothing to check the forces of corruption.

Edited yesterday at 05:05 AM by Emerald

[Leo Gura]

3 minutes ago, Emerald said:

that there is nothing to check the forces of corruption.

The leftist worldview is corrupt.

My job is to teach that. 

So I will continue to do my job even as the left whines, as they always do. Nothing new there.

Edited yesterday at 05:07 AM by Leo Gura

[Hardkill]

 

5 minutes ago, Leo Gura said:

Leftists are corrupt.

My job is to teach that. 

So I will continue to do my job even as the left whines, as they always do.

So, are centrists less corrupt than the right-wing, but more corrupt than leftists, are? 

 

Edited yesterday at 05:10 AM by Hardkill

[Leo Gura]

1 minute ago, Hardkill said:

So, are centrists less corrupt than the right-wing, but more corrupt than leftists, are?

Not necessarily. There are too many variables to generalize it like that. Individuals vary.

Edited yesterday at 05:09 AM by Leo Gura

[Emerald]

11 minutes ago, Leo Gura said:

The leftist worldview is corrupt.

My job is to teach that. 

So I will continue to do my job even as the left whines, as they always do.

So holding to a principled stance on acceptance and freedom are corrupt to you?

It's clear to me that you care more about nitpicking the left to death when they deviate from your ideology than you do about harm prevention, truth, and justice.... and stopping the forces of corruption from proliferating.

Edited yesterday at 05:18 AM by Emerald

[Hardkill]

1 minute ago, Leo Gura said:

Not necessarily. There are too many variables to generalize it like that. Individuals vary.

Oh....so is becoming a tier-2 individual all about transcending the corruption of left, right, and center?

[Leo Gura]

Just now, Hardkill said:

Oh....so is becoming a tier-2 individual all about transcending the corruption of left, right, and center?

Again, not necessarily. Corruption is a relatively independent variable. You could be corrupt in various ways at any stage.

[Leo Gura]

24 minutes ago, Emerald said:

So holding to a principled stance on acceptance and freedom are corrupt to you?

You are being too vague, loose, and self-serving with your characterization of your position.

Claiming you are for freedom is a meaningless generality. Are you for freedom for children to own grenades? Are you for freedom from taxation? Are you for freedom from government regulating my businesses?

The right claims to be for freedom, you claim to be for freedom. What does freedom have to do with tax-payers funding tampons in men's bathrooms? What does freedom have to do with high taxes and massive budget deficits? What does freedom have to do with defunding police and military? What does freedom have to do with banning firearms? What does freedom have to do with vaccine mandates? What does freedom have to do with banning gasoline cars and offshore oil drilling? What does freedom have to do with racial hiring quotas? What does freedom have to do with forcing me to pay for government mandated health insurance with shitty doctors? What does freedom have to do with defunding police and calling cops racist pigs?

You want me to blindly defend leftist ideology because you have convinced yourself you are the good guys fighting the bad guys. I see it as ideology and self-bias. So I am not interested.

Just because you think you are for freedom and goodness doesn't mean you are.

Besides, freedom is not some absolute good. Healthy society is built on restriction of freedoms.

Edited yesterday at 05:33 AM by Leo Gura

[Natasha Tori Maru]

41 minutes ago, Emerald said:

So, you will be the person that sticks to the truth and tells the Nazis "There are Jews hiding in the basement."

It tells me a lot about you.

It communicates everything you need to know.

Very disappointed in Leo's doubling down here. 

You are sticking it right in the heart with a sickle knife with your points - that the value of life and consciousness is higher than truth.

 

[Emerald]

1 minute ago, Natasha Tori Maru said:

It communicates everything you need to know.

Very disappointed in Leo's doubling down here. 

You are sticking it right in the heart with a sickle knife with your points - that the value of life and consciousness is higher than truth.

100%

His whole argument is lacking in real heart wisdom.

And if he was being honest with himself, I hope he would see that he doesn't even agree with himself when the rubber meets the road.

His identity is just too wrapped up in the notion of truth being the highest good and him being the type of person that always sticks to the truth, even if the entire world burns.

But it's all just ego... and defending his own ideological leanings under the guise of defending truth.

[Leo Gura]

19 minutes ago, Natasha Tori Maru said:

that the value of life and consciousness is higher than truth.

Obviously this cannot be true. Since then God could never let a single fly die.

The existence of death proves that truth is more important than life or feelings.

You will never find a value higher than truth. Because truth is God. Any value you place above truth is corruption.

See, you ladies have so corrupted yourselves with feelings that you have lost touch with the truth that God created death and torture.

If your position was true, death and torture could not exist. But since you don't care about truth, I guess that little detail doesn't bother you.

If truth was not the absolute highest value, all of reality would collapse into incoherence. Which is why God must be Truth. God has to hold reality together just so you could have life. Truth is more fundamental that human life. Obviously. Because a human life is worth no more than the ant you stepped on on your way to work. But what do you care? As long as you got your life you don't care. That's how corrupt you are.

Edited yesterday at 05:51 AM by Leo Gura

[Emerald]

13 minutes ago, Leo Gura said:

You are being too vague, loose, and self-serving with your characterization of your position.

Claiming you are for freedom is a meaningless generality. Are you for freedom for children to own grenades? Are you for freedom from taxation? Are you for freedom from government regulating my businesses?

The right claims to be for freedom, you claim to be for freedom. What does freedom have to do with tax-payers funding tampons in men's bathrooms? What does freedom have to do with high taxes and massive budget deficits? What does freedom have to do with defunding police and military? What does freedom have to do with banning firearms? What does freedom have to do with vaccine mandates? What does freedom have to do with banning gasoline cars and offshore oil drilling? What does freedom have to do with racial hiring quotas? What does freedom have to do with forcing me to pay for government mandated health insurance with shitty doctors? What does freedom have to do with defunding police and calling cops racist pigs?

You want me to blindly defend leftist ideology because you have convinced yourself you are the good guys fighting the bad guys. I see it as ideology and self-bias. So I am not interested.

Just because you think you are for freedom and goodness doesn't mean you are.

Once again, we're talking about what is rhetorically effective.... and why your strategy of nitpicking the left isn't effective and my framing is.

And you can only be rhetorically effective if you have simple concepts and slogans that the average person understands and resonates with.

You can't get super wonky or in the weeds about things.

But when you frame yourself as pro-freedom and pro-acceptance... you can clarify a bit that it means freedom over personal decisions that don't impede upon others' freedom. And that acceptance means acceptance of all the different folkways we have.

It's not hard to communicate that... especially if you say it as a rebuttal when a right-winger or foolish left-winger who has fallen into the traps set by the right wing propaganda machine (like you) starts to press you on accepting trans people.

Then, you answer... "Yes, I accept people because I am pro freedom. And I mind my own business because whatever trans people are doing isn't effecting my life. Do you believe that the government should be controlling people's personal life and squelching our freedoms?"

[Leo Gura]

Just now, Emerald said:

and why your strategy of nitpicking the left isn't effective

1) The left is not effective.

2) I don't care about effective. I care about what is true and real. False ideas are not effective in the end. Which is why socialism failed.