Leo, do you think that Democrats should support right-wing economic policies?

[Leo Gura]

2 minutes ago, Apparition of Jack said:

What good is truth if there’s no one left to share it with? 

What good is anyone if they aren't true?

[Emerald]

1 minute ago, Leo Gura said:

The definition of corruption is bending the truth to survive.

Whose definition of corruption is that?

If you'd let all the world burn just to stay truthful... then it's all about you maintaining your worldview and identity of goodness.

Be honest with yourself and humble yourself... all this truth stuff you claim is just a way to build a superior ego.

And if you had to lie and cheat and steal to avoid the chopping block... you would.

Perhaps you wouldn't' do it for others because you care more about your identity of truthfulness than you care about human life.

But your allegiance to the truth would crumble as soon as it's you rotting away in a concentration camp.

[Leo Gura]

1 minute ago, Emerald said:

Whose definition of corruption is that?

The only definition there could be.

[Leo Gura]

1 minute ago, Emerald said:

But your allegiance to the truth would crumble as soon as it's you rotting away in a concentration camp.

Perhaps it would. But that would be my corruption.

[Emerald]

Just now, Leo Gura said:

The only definition there could be.

There is a parable, I'd like to share that I heard many years ago.

There was a master sitting underneath a tree in the woods. And he had just gotten done instructing his students on the value of truth and how one should always be truthful.

Then, a frightened man ran up to him and said "There are men chasing me through the woods. And if they find me, they will kill me. I'm going to climb up this tree. Please don't tell them that I'm up there."

And the man climbed up the tree.

Several minutes later, 3 or 4 men with weapons came barreling through the woods looking around.

And they happened upon the master and asked the master "Did you see a man come by here?"

And the master said plainly and without hesitation said, "No."

[Apparition of Jack]

6 minutes ago, Leo Gura said:

What good is anyone if they aren't true?

How can you be so sure they aren’t? I’m beginning to think you’re wrapped yourself up in some sort of warped solipsism dude. Your insights are magnificent, truly, but it really feels like you’re missing some sort of crucial, basic recognition of Other somewhere down the line.

[Leo Gura]

1 minute ago, Apparition of Jack said:

How can you be so sure they aren’t? I’m beginning to think you’re wrapped yourself up in some sort of warped solipsism dude. Your insights are magnificent, truly, but it really feels like you’re missing some sort of crucial, basic recognition of Other somewhere down the line.

"There are no others."

-- Ramana Maharshi

[Leo Gura]

6 minutes ago, Emerald said:

There is a parable, I'd like to share that I heard many years ago.

There was a master sitting underneath a tree in the woods. And he had just gotten done instructing his students on the value of truth and how one should always be truthful.

Then, a frightened man ran up to him and said "There are men chasing me through the woods. And if they find me, they will kill me. I'm going to climb up this tree. Please don't tell them that I'm up there."

And the man climbed up the tree.

Several minutes later, 3 or 4 men with weapons came barreling through the woods looking around.

And they happened upon the master and asked the master "Did you see a man come by here?"

And the master said plainly and without hesitation said, "No."

That's a cute story to justify your corruption.

The problem isn't that you lie to others. The problem is that as a leftist you lie to yourself.

Edited May 8 by Leo Gura

[aurum]

14 minutes ago, Emerald said:

Right wingers shove trans issues in people's faces all the time. It's all they focus on.

But they shove it by selling themselves as the solution.

That's the opposite of what lefties do.

14 minutes ago, Emerald said:

But Democrats scarcely mention trans people... yet still get accused of shoving trans issues in people's faces.

That's not something we can control. That's going to happen no matter what.

You can't control it a 100%. But you can control it enough to make a difference.

14 minutes ago, Emerald said:

You're not going to get anywhere with a "Don't worry. We normal and hate the transes too."

You don't need to explicit hate trans. You just need the normalcy part.

Normalcy is exactly what most people want.

Only progressives don't want normal.

[Apparition of Jack]

Just now, Leo Gura said:

"There are no others."

-- Ramana Maharshi

 

[Emerald]

4 minutes ago, Leo Gura said:

Perhaps it would. But that would be my corruption.

You should watch The Dark Crystal... as it demonstrates the importance of embracing Yin and Yang.

Right now, you have a polarization towards truth (with a lowercase t)... and it holds you back from integrating illusion and realizing Truth (with a capital t).

You needlessly and egoicly lie to yourself that your value is truth, when you know it isn't.

You're too obsessed with maintaining an identity that's locked in a lower expression of polarized goodness to realize a higher goodness.

[Leo Gura]

@Emerald If you consider Tucker Carlson goodness, I would rather live in Hell with Satan.

[Emerald]

1 minute ago, Leo Gura said:

That's a cute story to justify your corruption.

Imagine a scenario where you let your child die.

And then, when people ask you why, you say "Don't worry. There are no others. I let my child die to show my allegiance to the truth and to avoid corruption."

Do you not see the issue with defining corruption this way?

Is it not far more corrupt to  let the child die?

 

[Apparition of Jack]

Just now, Leo Gura said:

@Emerald If you consider Tucker Carlson goodness, I would rather live in Hell with Satan.

Who brought Tucker Carlson into it? No one mentioned him but you. And if you’re worried about somehow being as bad as him, don’t be lmao, you’re a much better man than he is and always will be. 
 

You don’t have to be so hard on yourself all the time. You’ve legitimately helped countless people man, me included. No one could look at the broad strokes of your life and say that you’ve done anything but try to help the world. But you’re still dealing with some unresolved issues, and one that’s holding both your own and those around you’s development. And once you deal with them, oh man, that’s where the real fun begins   

[Leo Gura]

5 minutes ago, Emerald said:

Imagine a scenario where you let your child die.

And then, when people ask you why, you say "Don't worry. There are no others. I let my child die to show my allegiance to the truth and to avoid corruption."

Do you not see the issue with defining corruption this way?

Is it not far more corrupt to  let the child die?

Ralston tells a story of a monk who wrote a book that the Church did not like. The Church imprisoned him and told him to renounce his book or they would kill him. He said No. They came back to him the next day and said, We will let you live, but we have rewritten your book to make it sound better. If you accept this rewrite of your book, we will let you live. He said No. They came back to him the next day and said, We have figured out how to reframe your philosophy so it no longer contradicts the Church, just sign on to this reframe and we will let you live. He said No. So they killed him.

That is a Good man. And anything less is corruption.

Edited May 8 by Leo Gura

[Emerald]

Just now, Leo Gura said:

@Emerald If you consider Tucker Carlson goodness, I would rather live in Hell with Satan.

If a left-winger who's fighting for things that save people from their demise learns to wield the powers that the right wing effortlessly wields because they have no such identity of goodness that prevents them from using their strength, that person would be doing the lord's work.

You will find corruption where polarization exists.

The right winger has an identity polarization into strength and away from weakness.

And the left winger has an identity polarization into goodness and away from badness. (This is you... Mister I'm so good that I'd let people suffer and die to tell the truth... whilst also lying about your allegiance to truth because you know it's bullshit when you're on the chopping blocks.)

And it is precisely the left-winger's identity of goodness that makes them throw away their power and to allow the forces of corruption to proliferate.

This is the whole plot of the The Dark Crystal... and it shows the dangers of polarization.

And right now, you're so polarized into an identity of goodness around the allegiance to truth that you don't even recognize that you're lying to yourself... and you have build a sociopathic value system.

You've polarized so much into goodness... that your viewpoint has become both spineless and evil.

[Leo Gura]

You guys want me to sacrifice truth for your political activism, which I will never do.

I am sorry you don't understand why.

[Emerald]

5 minutes ago, Leo Gura said:

Ralston tells a story of a monk who wrote a book that the Church did not like. The Church imprisoned him and told him to renounce his book or they would kill him. He said No. They came back to him the next day and said, We will let you live, but we have rewritten your book to make it sound better. If you accept this rewrite of your book, we will let you live. He said No. They came back to him the next day and said, We have figured out how to reframe your philosophy so it no longer contradicts the Church, just sign on to this reframe and we will let you live. He said No. So they killed him.

That is a Good man. And anything less is evil.

That's a totally different scenario!

He is staying true to the truth at his own expense... and for the purpose of the greater good.

His expression of allegiance to the truth is the opposite of corruption.

And it is far more akin to my principled stance around accepting others and not conceding to the right-wing bigoted framing... than it is towards whatever the heck you think you're doing.

For you, it's just about maintaining an identity of being committed to truth at the expense of unlimited amounts of human death and suffering... EXCEPT for when that suffering impacts yourself.

Edited May 8 by Emerald

[ExploringReality]

Just now, Leo Gura said:

You guys want me to sacrifice truth for your political activism, which I will never do.

I am sorry you don't understand why.

Amen to Truth. Truth is the sword nobody wants to touch because it cuts both ways., people want to fight, bitch and defend an ideological position 

[Apparition of Jack]

3 minutes ago, Leo Gura said:

You guys want me to sacrifice truth for your political activism, which I will never do.

I am sorry you don't understand why.

Aww man, you’re calling it quits already?  Don’t worry, we’re not giving up on you that easily  we’ll get you to see the light yet!