5-HTP interaction with Psychedelics?

[Vincent S]

I have been taking 5-HTP for a few weeks now. Mainly because of low Dopamine production. I’m loving the positive effects.
I also take L-Tyrosine to balance out the Serotonin levels. 

Anyhow, my question is, does 5-HTP have any dangerous interactions with Psychedelics? I tried Acid the other day, and it was fine. Although I didn’t take any 5-HTP two days prior to the trip.

But would it be fine with 5-MEO-DMT?

I tried searching for it on google, but could only find results with LSD.

Thanks in advance!

PS. I vaguely remember Leo mentioning 5-HTP in his nootropics video, but he didn’t mention psychedelics there. Curious if you know @Leo Gura?

Edited Tuesday at 06:13 AM by Vincent S

[Schizophonia]

It will do nothing 

[Vincent S]

40 minutes ago, Schizophonia said:

It will do nothing 

Thanks for the fast response  

[Schizophonia]

2 hours ago, Vincent S said:

Thanks for the fast response  

👍

[Sugarcoat]

How do you know you have low dopamine production? I feel I lack joy in my life, and like I get no “dopamine” feeling, does that mean I have low dopamine ?

[Schizophonia]

20 minutes ago, Sugarcoat said:

How do you know you have low dopamine production? I feel I lack joy in my life, and like I get no “dopamine” feeling, does that mean I have low dopamine ?

Yes. 

+ neuroleptics block both dopamine and serotonin receptors.  

Edited May 5 by Schizophonia

[Sugarcoat]

3 minutes ago, Schizophonia said:

Yes. 

+ neuroleptics block both dopamine and serotonin receptors.  

Ok. But I feel disconnected from myself so it’s like there’s a disconnection in the transmission of dopamine, a disconnection in the pathways that it travels so it doesn’t “reach me”. That’s my theory . And it’s a result of the severe degree of self dissolution I went through 

You don’t have to believe me😂

Edited May 5 by Sugarcoat

[Schizophonia]

12 minutes ago, Sugarcoat said:

Ok. But I feel disconnected from myself so it’s like there’s a disconnection in the transmission of dopamine, a disconnection in the pathways that it travels so it doesn’t “reach me”. That’s my theory . And it’s a result of the severe degree of self dissolution I went through 

You don’t have to believe me😂

Sometimes through contemplation I manage to gain enough perspective (from a non-dual perspective) on pleasure, and as a result, it sounds like a spectacle, and therefore neutral in the absolute sense.

For example, I have an orgasm; I see how "I" am supposed to "come," and that it's supposed to "be pleasant," but because I disconnect from all that, it sounds like a story that doesn't really concern "me" anymore; it's not so real anymore.

Is it something like that? (If you understood what I said, lol)

Edited May 5 by Schizophonia

[Vincent S]

3 hours ago, Sugarcoat said:

How do you know you have low dopamine production? I feel I lack joy in my life, and like I get no “dopamine” feeling, does that mean I have low dopamine ?

Well, for me it expresses in deep depression and a lack to live aligned with my principles of being in flow with life, change and expression of joy for life.

It also feels like a loss of healthy boundaries between self and other (actually no boundaries there) but to function here in the dream with “others” I have to maintain healthy boundaries. Otherwise I get sucked in to other people’s BS.

Also no motivation or will to do the things I like, like exercise, being in nature and being anchored within myself.

During the past years I have been going through emotional trauma and some deep emotional labor. And this has put some heavy load on my body, especially my thyroid. And this has resulted in hormonal imbalance.

Low Dopamine (no happy hormone / well-being)
Low Serotonin (bad mood and weird digestion)   
Low Melatonin (less sleep and more anxiety)

My nutrition was lackluster as well.

I started reading and researching on thyroid issues and hormonal imbalances, and realized I needed to try some supplements. Didn’t go to the doctor because I rather not take Levaxin and get 100 different side effects. So I started taking 5-HTP + L-Tyrosine. And has been doing me a miracle.

It’s unfortunately scheduled in Sweden as a pharmaceutical drug, so you can’t buy it everywhere. I got mine from Finland

Hope you find a solution 🙏🏻🌟

[Carl-Richard]

12 hours ago, Vincent S said:

But would it be fine with 5-MEO-DMT?

I would be careful as 5-MeO-DMT is a weak serotonin re-uptake inhibitor which in combination with 5-HTP could drastically elevate synaptic serotonin levels and pose a risk for serotonin syndrome. Definitely never take 5-MeO-DMT in combination with a MAOI (that has actually lead to serotonin syndrome and death).

Edited Tuesday at 02:37 AM by Carl-Richard

[Sugarcoat]

6 hours ago, Vincent S said:

Well, for me it expresses in deep depression and a lack to live aligned with my principles of being in flow with life, change and expression of joy for life.

It also feels like a loss of healthy boundaries between self and other (actually no boundaries there) but to function here in the dream with “others” I have to maintain healthy boundaries. Otherwise I get sucked in to other people’s BS.

Also no motivation or will to do the things I like, like exercise, being in nature and being anchored within myself.

During the past years I have been going through emotional trauma and some deep emotional labor. And this has put some heavy load on my body, especially my thyroid. And this has resulted in hormonal imbalance.

Low Dopamine (no happy hormone / well-being)
Low Serotonin (bad mood and weird digestion)   
Low Melatonin (less sleep and more anxiety)

My nutrition was lackluster as well.

I started reading and researching on thyroid issues and hormonal imbalances, and realized I needed to try some supplements. Didn’t go to the doctor because I rather not take Levaxin and get 100 different side effects. So I started taking 5-HTP + L-Tyrosine. And has been doing me a miracle.

It’s unfortunately scheduled in Sweden as a pharmaceutical drug, so you can’t buy it everywhere. I got mine from Finland

Hope you find a solution 🙏🏻🌟

I kind of have depression. Lack of motivation. Pretty much no happiness . So maybe some applies to meX How has it changed you taking those things?

[Vincent S]

3 hours ago, Carl-Richard said:

I would be careful as 5-MeO-DMT is a weak serotonin re-uptake inhibitor which in combination with 5-HTP could drastically elevate synaptic serotonin levels and pose a risk for serotonin syndrome. Definitely never take 5-MeO-DMT in combination with a MAOI (that has actually lead to serotonin syndrome and death).

Thank you for your response 🙏🏻

Yeah I thought so.

I guess I will just take breaks from 5-HTP once a while, when I feel like working with 5-MEO.

[Vincent S]

1 hour ago, Sugarcoat said:

I kind of have depression. Lack of motivation. Pretty much no happiness . So maybe some applies to meX How has it changed you taking those things?

Do you take any medication for your depression? Or any other medicine? 
If not, then maybe give it a shot. It’s nothing dangerous or advanced really.

It’s basically another form of L-Tryptofan, which is an amino acid. Which in the body/brain, turns in to L-Dopa, which in turn, turns in to Dopamine. It’s made from a plant called Griffonia Simplicifolia.

Now, if you want to take it, you have to take it with another amino acid called L-Tyrosine, which balances out Serotonin levels. Otherwise you will have too much Dopamine, and too low Serotonin.

I definitely feel more balanced and grounded. I feel at ease and feel like I have got myself back. I feel more content with life and I’m not depressed to the point of feeling like the world is about to end.

Edited Tuesday at 05:43 AM by Vincent S

[Carl-Richard]

3 hours ago, Vincent S said:

It’s basically another form of L-Tryptofan, which is an amino acid. Which in the body/brain, turns in to L-Dopa, which in turn, turns in to Dopamine. It’s made from a plant called Griffonia Simplicifolia.

Now, if you want to take it, you have to take it with another amino acid called L-Tyrosine, which balances out Serotonin levels. Otherwise you will have too much Dopamine, and too low Serotonin.

You have it the other way around: L-tryptophan is a precursor to 5-HTP and serotonin:

 

L-tyrosine is a precursor to L-dopa, dopamine, noradrenaline and adrenaline:

 

It's easy to remember it when you remember that Tryptamines (psilocybin, DMT, 5-MeO-DMT; also LSD has a tryptamine component) are the classic serotonergic psychedelics. Phenylethylamines, which have the same structure as the L-tyrosine and the monoamines, are your amphetamines (including MDMA), mescaline, 2CB, etc.

Edited Tuesday at 08:51 AM by Carl-Richard

[Vincent S]

29 minutes ago, Carl-Richard said:

You have it the other way around: L-tryptophan is a precursor to 5-HTP and serotonin:

 

L-tyrosine is a precursor to L-dopa, dopamine, noradrenaline and adrenaline:

 

It's easy to remember it when you remember that Tryptamines (psilocybin, DMT, 5-MeO-DMT; also LSD has a tryptamine component) are the classic serotonergic psychedelics. Phenylethylamines, which have the same structure as the L-tyrosine and the monoamines, are your amphetamines (including MDMA), mescaline, 2CB, etc.

Thank you for clarifying 🌟🙏🏻

[Schizophonia]

7 hours ago, Carl-Richard said:

I would be careful as 5-MeO-DMT is a weak serotonin re-uptake inhibitor which in combination with 5-HTP could drastically elevate synaptic serotonin levels and pose a risk for serotonin syndrome. Definitely never take 5-MeO-DMT in combination with a MAOI (that has actually lead to serotonin syndrome and death).

It's weird to worry about the slight SSRI quality of 5 MeO when it normally and especially acts as a super-potent 5ht1a agonist. And 5HTP is barely better than a placebo.

Maybe i didn’t understand something well.

Edited Tuesday at 09:44 AM by Schizophonia

[Carl-Richard]

8 hours ago, Schizophonia said:

It's weird to worry about the slight SSRI quality of 5 MeO when it normally and especially acts as a super-potent 5ht1a agonist. And 5HTP is barely better than a placebo.

Maybe i didn’t understand something well.

It seems like cases of serotonin syndrome typically occur when you get a lot of endogenous serotonin in the synaptic cleft. It might be because

1. you might need a rather full serotonergic profile to get the full serotonin syndrome effects. Selective agonists like serotonergic psychedelics usually only affect a couple of sub-receptors and usually at varying degrees.

2. re-uptake inhibition combined with serotonin releasers or metabolic precursors have a multiplicative dose-response relationship (you get a lot from just a little increase). However, some selective serotonergic psychedelics including 5-MeO-DMT similarly seem to be mistaken as serotonin and are affected by re-uptake, but they generally have a lower affinity for the transporter (roughly 1/10th of serotonin).

3. most serotonergic psychedelics are partial agonists (but particularly 5-MeO is in full agonist territory for 5HT1a like you are hinting towards).

There have been a couple of case reports of psychedelics like LSD causing symptoms of serotonin syndrome, but these are extreme cases with extreme doses and frequencies. So it's definitely possible that the 5HT1a agonism of 5-MeO could contribute to serotonin syndrome, but I would again point against the serotonin re-uptake inhibition as being a much bigger cause for concern when combined with a serotonin precursor or releaser.

 

8 hours ago, Schizophonia said:

And 5HTP is barely better than a placebo.

SSRIs are barely better than placebo.

Edited Tuesday at 06:05 PM by Carl-Richard

[Schizophonia]

4 minutes ago, Carl-Richard said:

It seems like cases of serotonin syndrome typically occur when you get a lot of endogenous serotonin in the synaptic cleft. It might be because

1. you might need a rather full serotonergic profile to get the serotonin syndrome effects. Selective agonists like serotonergic psychedelics usually only affect a couple of sub-receptors and usually at varying degrees.

2. re-uptake inhibition combined with serotonin releasers or metabolic precursors have a multiplicative dose-response relationship (suddenly you get a lot from just a little increase). However, some selective serotonergic psychedelics including 5-MeO-DMT similarly seem to be mistaken as serotonin and are affected by re-uptake, but they generally have a lower affinity for the transporter (roughly 1/10th of serotonin).

3. most serotonergic psychedelics are partial agonists (but particularly 5-MeO is in full agonist territory for 5HT1a).

There have been a couple of case reports of psychedelics like LSD causing symptoms of serotonin syndrome, but these are extreme cases with extreme doses and frequencies. So it's definitely possible that the 5HT1a agonism of 5-MeO could contribute to serotonin syndrome, but its probably more likely the serotonin re-uptake inhibition that would cause the explosive effects when combined with a serotonin precursor or releaser.

It's strange because i've seen somewhere 5ht1a was protective against serotoninergic syndrome. 

[Carl-Richard]

38 minutes ago, Schizophonia said:

It's strange because i've seen somewhere 5ht1a was protective against serotoninergic syndrome. 

Like literally right this second, I happened to read about 5HT1a's effect on endogenous serotonin release, and it actually reduces endogenous release through its autoreceptor activity. That's probably why it protects against serotonin syndrome (and why SSRIs famously have this 2-3 weeks long gap where they don't really work because the autoreceptors have to desensitize first, or that's one explanation). I remember reading about this one time during my studies.

Edited Tuesday at 06:34 PM by Carl-Richard

[Schizophonia]

1 hour ago, Carl-Richard said:

Like literally right this second, I happened to read about 5HT1a's effect on endogenous serotonin release, and it actually reduces endogenous release through its autoreceptor activity. That's probably why it protects against serotonin syndrome (and why SSRIs famously have this 2-3 weeks long gap where they don't really work because the autoreceptors have to desensitize first, or that's one explanation). I remember reading about this one time during my studies.

Yes, I read that too.

5 MeO DMT is a priori dangerous but not for reasons of serotonin syndrome.

I took large doses of psychedelics, but the only drug that induced serotonin syndrome was tramadol.