How Is Definitive Knowledge Possible?

[Breakingthewall]

3 hours ago, gettoefl said:

myself feel that there is a deeper purpose to life

I'd say that the only purpose of life is life itself. But life could be more alive. 

 

2 hours ago, Princess Arabia said:

You quoted the only part I wasn't comfortable with and that says a lot in of itself.

Well, it's not so weird part, you  just said that no one has all the answers. Except me, of course. Call me smart ass if you want. 

[gettoefl]

10 hours ago, Breakingthewall said:

I'd say that the only purpose of life is life itself. But life could be more alive. 

Life is but an appetiser, a side-show, a distraction from the big dance that lies in store and is every one of our destiny's

Life here is a shabby imitation of a glorious wonderland, like the meagreness of a cloud compared to the brilliance of the sun

One needs a mustard seed of faith I will concede but then one sees there is a vast, unshakable reality beyond this one that makes everything here pale into insignificance. What I experience now, no matter how vital and vibrant, is a mere speck, while what awaits is prodigious, eternal, boundless and radiant with a beauty and peace we cannot fathom. In any glimpse that we are graced, this world will feel like nothing more than a shifting second-rate dream.

Edited October 7, 2024 by gettoefl

[Princess Arabia]

15 hours ago, Breakingthewall said:

I'd say that the only purpose of life is life itself. But life could be more alive. 

 

Well, it's not so weird part, you  just said that no one has all the answers. Except me, of course. Call me smart ass if you want. 

You're being pretty funny and more relaxed lately. This side of you is refreshing to see. Something has changed. This is how observant I am. I can tell.

[Breakingthewall]

1 hour ago, Princess Arabia said:

You're being pretty funny and more relaxed lately. This side of you is refreshing to see. Something has changed. This is how observant I am. I can tell.

Yes you are, little by little I'm removing the layer of shit of myself, not easy. Really that's the work that all us are doing, being human is difficult. Very difficult when you really see what involve. 

7 hours ago, gettoefl said:

Life is but an appetiser, a side-show, a distraction from the big dance that lies in store and is every one of our destiny's

Humbly i ve to say no my dear,  this is the holy heaven, only that it's hidden. There is one reality: now. And always is going to be now. We just have to penetrate in what we are to the bottom, here and now. Life is existence, and is what we are. 

 

[gettoefl]

1 hour ago, Breakingthewall said:

Humbly i ve to say no my dear,  this is the holy heaven, only that it's hidden. There is one reality: now. And always is going to be now. We just have to penetrate in what we are to the bottom, here and now. Life is existence, and is what we are. 

 

Completely agree. Best way I can put it is that we're the whole enchilada choosing to think we're a piece so we can scheme our lives away vying to be top dog and rule the world or at least have a hefty pension pot to retire on and then dilly-dally in the sunshine for a few decades. What's more amazing is that what you believe you see with your own two eyes. Beguiling dream, for real huh? To put it simply I'm real happy being cake by the ocean without any change to my eyesight man so just leave me to eat pray love shag marry and kill k?

Edited October 7, 2024 by gettoefl

[Javfly33]

2 hours ago, Breakingthewall said:

Humbly i ve to say no my dear,  this is the holy heaven, only that it's hidden. There is one reality: now. And always is going to be now. We just have to penetrate in what we are to the bottom, here and now. Life is existence, and is what we are. 

yes but as you said you prefer to be at a beach drinking piña colada than being tortured to death... so levels in the existence exist. Is normal we want to evolve to more powerful and pleasant levels of existence. In the same way a chihuahua is at a different level of existence than us. 

Is why i tried to tell @Princess Arabia, she wants to say that 'we are all at the same level'. No we don´t... a chihuaha is at a different level than a human and between humans there are massive levels of differences.

"But those differences are in the relative level".

Not really, because relative does not exist. The Absolute is all there is, a chihuaha is the absolute, a human is the absolute, there are different expressions of the absolute. And therefore the clear proof that Existence can exists in different levels of expression, of compulsion or consciousness, of entanglement or Liberation. 

 

And in the same way Life with a human body/mind is not the same as Life without a body/mind. 

Edited October 7, 2024 by Javfly33

[Princess Arabia]

11 minutes ago, Javfly33 said:

Is why i tried to tell @Princess Arabia, she wants to say that 'we are all at the same level'.

Never said that. That's preposterous for you to think I'd believe you're at the same level as me. (joking)....

But seriously, though, remember my going to school and being able to read and write VS someone who can't analogy, that's suggesting we're all not on the same level. Another misinterpretation on your part of what I said. I never even mentioned the word level.

If I can remember, what I was saying was, someone doing yoga or samsara or whatever term you used is only getting a different experience and different results from say someone who studies about cars. Their life experience will be more enriched being able to meditate and get more peace or teach or become a yogi mystic, etc, all that does is give a different experience than say someone doing drugs and ruining their lives The difference is in the experience and not bringing them any closer to what they already are which is Awareness as that is already the case and need no practicing to accomplish.

[Princess Arabia]

1 hour ago, gettoefl said:

Completely agree. Best way I can put it is that we're the whole enchilada choosing to think we're a piece so we can scheme our lives away vying to be top dog and rule the world or at least have a hefty pension pot to retire on and then dilly-dally in the sunshine for a few decades. What's more amazing is that what you believe you see with your own two eyes. Beguiling dream, for real huh? To put it simply I'm real happy being cake by the ocean without any change to my eyesight man so just leave me to eat pray love shag marry and kill k?

I love the way you've been talking lately. It's not as popular, because most are identified with the ego mind and are attached to the outside world. The mind cannot go within  because it's not designed to, nor is it even capable. It's always looking outside of itself and in the past and future where problems live. Problems cannot live in the present and that's why we see so many people with problems. It's not that we have problems, but more of what we think about what is currently happening. This is where my main focus lies. To stay in a place of awareness of true identity and to allow what's taking place to be there without judgment, criticism or attachment and to abide in the place where nothing is affected. Takes practice but well worth it. Not trying to get something but to recognize there's nothing to get.

[Breakingthewall]

30 minutes ago, Javfly33 said:

so levels in the existence exist

I think I was in a much more powerful and connected level of existence when I was 4, 5, 6, 7 years old. I was totally open to the reality. From then a work starts that leads you to the stupidity, more and more deeply. The people that surrounded you has a astonishing level of stupidity, and you want to be like them, and it's not easy being so stupid, requires a big effort. Then, in some point you reach a good level, without it it's impossible to fit. It's like a hell, you live surrounded by a kind of robots that seems that they know something that you don't, and you can't understand in any case, like you were from another place. Then in a moment you realize that and work to reverse the process. It's a crazy process that never ends, but at the end it's funny, like a game

[Breakingthewall]

1 hour ago, gettoefl said:

lives away vying to be top dog and rule the world or at least have a hefty pension pot to retire on and then dilly-dally in the sunshine for a few decades.

It's not that they desire that, it's how the system is designed. It's not easy to be out of the system, for most the ideal is fitting, don't be out. They don't ask for more because they realize that they are one step far go be out, losers, alone, marginal. Nobody wants that, they would sell their soul for fitting 

[Javfly33]

9 hours ago, Princess Arabia said:

The difference is in the experience and not bringing them any closer to what they already are which is Awareness as that is already the case and need no practicing to accomplish.

Then I did understood you, and I think you are wrong in that. 

 

8 hours ago, Breakingthewall said:

I think I was in a much more powerful and connected level of existence when I was 4, 5, 6, 7 years old. I was totally open to the reality. From then a work starts that leads you to the stupidity, more and more deeply. The people that surrounded you has a astonishing level of stupidity, and you want to be like them, and it's not easy being so stupid, requires a big effort. Then, in some point you reach a good level, without it it's impossible to fit. It's like a hell, you live surrounded by a kind of robots that seems that they know something that you don't, and you can't understand in any case, like you were from another place. Then in a moment you realize that and work to reverse the process. It's a crazy process that never ends, but at the end it's funny, like a game

For sure, being 4,5,6,7 years old one is connected to Life and freedom than any adult, the challange is one you develop an ego mind to tame it and put it back as your slave not your master. 

Is easy to be happy being 5 years old because mind and ego is not developed yet

[Nirvanababyyyyy]

There is nothing more certain than that you are. A realisation of that which has always been there. You. 

[gettoefl]

14 hours ago, Princess Arabia said:

I love the way you've been talking lately. It's not as popular, because most are identified with the ego mind and are attached to the outside world. The mind cannot go within  because it's not designed to, nor is it even capable. It's always looking outside of itself and in the past and future where problems live. Problems cannot live in the present and that's why we see so many people with problems. It's not that we have problems, but more of what we think about what is currently happening. This is where my main focus lies. To stay in a place of awareness of true identity and to allow what's taking place to be there without judgment, criticism or attachment and to abide in the place where nothing is affected. Takes practice but well worth it. Not trying to get something but to recognize there's nothing to get.

I observed your consciousness level has soared sky-high in such a short time. Seems we are reading from the same hymn-sheet. What you are describing here is the peace of god - the kind that transcends mental understanding. And I would say it’s about the most one can reach through mind's effort alone, but more importantly, it's a cue to allow something beyond to work through us.

What it means is, nothing can truly affect you anymore because, in truth, nothing outside of you ever could. The games of the world continue, yes - amusing, bizarre, incomprehensible, and unpredictable - but their power over you departed  as you recognize their illusory nature. Deeper still, it's all known to be irrelevant and meaningless from the higher perspective, and that's not a negative thing at all. In fact, it’s freeing. For the first time, one is rid of ego constraints and sees the world for what it truly is: a neutral canvas for perceptions.

Like you say, one becomes attuned to the awareness of being rather than the impulses of the mind. From this place, we can choose to engage or to refrain without attachment. We begin to savour the present moment, where truth, beauty, love, and intelligence flow through us effortlessly. The barriers fall, and now we become a vessel for something far greater than we could imagine. Miracles pour forth in this state, and as you said, the real freedom is in realizing that there is nothing to get - only something to remember.

Good times, indeed, await at every turn when mind is docile, and liberation lies on the horizon. For no longer are we striving for peace, but for the acceptance that we are that peace for a pained world. I hug you for your ebullient energy and gentle spirit.

Edited October 8, 2024 by gettoefl

[gettoefl]

14 hours ago, Breakingthewall said:

It's not that they desire that, it's how the system is designed. It's not easy to be out of the system, for most the ideal is fitting, don't be out. They don't ask for more because they realize that they are one step far go be out, losers, alone, marginal. Nobody wants that, they would sell their soul for fitting 

The question all must answer is: what are my true priorities? Most people will submit to the comfort and validation of the crowd, but there is always another way. The ego, with its limitations and illusions, can be exposed and corrected through delicate inner work. Which is the heart of all spiritual practice - an ongoing journey of awakening, marked by stages of spiritual growth and the rewards of inner peace.

The most powerful element is forgiving the world. This means recognizing that nothing that happens is personal. Every event and interaction is neutral  and it is our work is to see things in this detached manner. When we understand that everyone is playing out unconscious patterns of deep rooted past pain (trauma), societal conditioning (dogma), and their inherited spiritual beliefs (dhamma), it becomes easier to overlook the surface-level dramas.

We can transcend the victimhood that the ego fosters by choosing to see the shared innocence in all. By doing so, we release ourselves and others from the mental prisons we've constructed, allowing space for love and freedom to emerge.

Edited October 8, 2024 by gettoefl

[Breakingthewall]

4 hours ago, gettoefl said:

The most powerful element is forgiving the world. This means recognizing that nothing that happens is personal. Every event and interaction is neutral  and it is our work is to see things in this detached manner. When we understand that everyone is playing out unconscious patterns of deep rooted past pain (trauma), societal conditioning (dogma), and their inherited spiritual beliefs (dhamma), it becomes easier to overlook the surface-level dramas.

We can transcend the victimhood that the ego fosters by choosing to see the shared innocence in all. By doing so, we release ourselves and others from the mental prisons we've constructed, allowing space for love and freedom to emerge.

Well said, without this real spirituality can't begin. Whatever happens is simply reality. Accepting this is the liberation of the ego, that gains power being a victim 

[gettoefl]

3 hours ago, Breakingthewall said:

Well said, without this real spirituality can't begin. Whatever happens is simply reality. Accepting this is the liberation of the ego, that gains power being a victim 

And now the work gets underway. As well as the fun and frolicking and fancy dress. Life in fact becomes one giant celebration from dawn to dusk. This is realization.