Any resources on understanding motivation?

[Schizophonia]

1 minute ago, Sugarcoat said:

What do you mean “two death” is it a typo? You mean the holocaust wouldn’t have happened?

Yes.

1 minute ago, Sugarcoat said:

What is that truth sir?

If you're like me and are too lazy to maintain a strict diet and very intense sport activity, you finish by having less stress,less hurt yourself physically, and actually shift your energy to more interesting things.

[Schizophonia]

7 minutes ago, Davino said:

Good luck realizing Absolute truths without unwavering discipline, you get glimpses here and there but nothing serious, just playing around when motivation kicks in.

If you have 0 "discipline" you will finish anyway to become homeless and eat trashs lol. 

[Epikur]

1 hour ago, Davino said:

What a joke

This is my definition of discipline:

Tyson would likely be dead without the influence of his mentor. He once said that he fought so hard because he wanted to make his mentor proud, as he deeply loved him.

The debate between motivation and discipline has been around for a long time. About a decade ago, Leo Babauta and Tim Ferriss had this conversation.

Motivation, in a literal sense, is the driving force behind any action. Discipline, on the other hand, can be seen as a form of motivation—it's when a habit is formed, making tasks feel 'easier' to complete. However, given the lack of free will, you were never really choosing in the first place.

Some people use strategies like committing to give money away if they fail to complete a task. Tricks like these can work for a while, but at some point, constantly relying on these methods might feel overwhelming.

To some extent, even though we lack true free will, we still maintain the illusion of being agents capable of doing things we don't necessarily want to do.

This reminds me of a conversation I had with someone who questioned why I would force myself to do things I didn’t enjoy. He asked why I was denying myself the good things in life. I replied that it didn’t feel like denial because I still gained something valuable from it.

It also reminds me of a discussion I had with my brother many years ago. I believed our actions were driven by the dopamine rewards we get. He, however, preferred the idea of free will and acting morally.

 

Edited September 29, 2024 by Epikur
better

[Epikur]

1 hour ago, Davino said:

@Schizophonia No, discipline is literally doing something when you have no motivation to do it, when you actually is the last thing you would like to do in the world. That's the point. Discipline gets you when you have no motivation, it's your backbone. When you are supermotivated you have no need for discipline. It's in the tough days, in the rainy and dark weather that discipline gets you to do it.

That's my position. What is your position? What do you mean by unconscious motivation? I would appreciate an elaboration

This isn't true. The thing you do is always the thing you most want to do. Training, for example, makes you feel like a hero—you envision the payoff, which gives you a dopamine rush.

You might avoid "fun" activities because, in your mind, they come with a cost. The imagined consequences outweigh the immediate pleasure, and that fear of pain holds you back.

If eating bugs gave you a bigger dopamine rush than anything else, you'd do it. We're essentially just primitive robots, driven by these chemical rewards.

Edited September 29, 2024 by Epikur
correction

[Epikur]

If somebody has the paid version of AI they might get a better result.

This ist what gpt 01 gave:

 

Commit to "Pre-Crastination"

Counterintuitive Insight: Do something unrelated but productive before diving into your actual project.

Why It Works: This concept flips procrastination on its head. Doing a small, easy task beforehand (like organizing your workspace or a different small project) creates a sense of achievement and flow, making the bigger task easier to start. You build energy through momentum.

System: Pair each major task with a "pre-task" (like clearing emails, organizing, or reviewing a small side project). Give yourself 10–15 minutes on the pre-task, and use that momentum to start the bigger project.

3. Use "Micro-Avoidance" to Trigger Guilt

Counterintuitive Insight: Avoiding work for short intervals can actually boost your productivity later, but only if you feel a bit guilty about it.

Why It Works: Intentionally procrastinating for a few minutes (while keeping the project in the back of your mind) creates mild discomfort and an urge to resolve the cognitive dissonance. This makes you eager to return to the project and get it done, because the guilt builds pressure.

System: Set a timer for 5–10 minutes and deliberately engage in a time-wasting activity (scroll social media, watch videos) before starting the project. The guilt acts as a motivator to dive in afterward.

4. "Inverted Deadlines"

Counterintuitive Insight: Set deadlines for tasks you are not supposed to complete yet.

Why It Works: When a task feels far away, you're more likely to procrastinate. By setting premature deadlines for the future (tasks for next week or month), you shift attention away from immediate deadlines. This creates a false sense of urgency for future work and can trick your brain into working ahead of schedule.

System: Create “false” deadlines for projects you’ll deal with later, and set your actual deadlines further out. For example, if you have a project due next week, schedule prep work as if the deadline is tomorrow.

5. Limit Your Freedom with "Intentional Constraints"

Counterintuitive Insight: Limiting your options boosts creativity and speed.

Why It Works: The paradox of choice and freedom can slow you down. By intentionally restricting time, resources, or methods (e.g., limiting yourself to using only specific tools), you trigger your brain to find innovative solutions and finish faster. Constraints drive focus.

System: Pick one constraint per project (time, resources, or methods). For example, tell yourself you only have 2 hours to complete a report or limit yourself to using only a few specific tools.

6. "Negative Visualization" (Pre-Mortem Technique)

Counterintuitive Insight: Imagine failing at your project and the negative consequences.

Why It Works: This technique, inspired by Stoicism, motivates you to take action by making the fear of failure tangible. Instead of visualizing success (which can be abstract), visualize what happens if you don't complete the project—the stress, embarrassment, and negative consequences. The discomfort will drive you to take action.

System: Before starting, spend 5 minutes imagining the worst-case scenario if the project fails (lost job, embarrassment, missed opportunity). Write down the consequences in vivid detail to build a strong sense of urgency.

These advanced techniques go beyond traditional motivation strategies and tap into deeper psychological mechanisms, leveraging both the discomfort of avoidance and the momentum of progress to get projects done.

[Davino]

21 minutes ago, Schizophonia said:

If you have 0 "discipline" you will finish anyway to become homeless and eat trashs lol. 

Of course.

Multiply that discipline by a million and that's what it takes to realize the Absolute Truths. It's mastery and higher living.

[Davino]

@Epikur Discipline is saying no to a good thing to say yes to a higher good thing. It takes wisdom to see it and power to execute it.

21 minutes ago, Epikur said:

The thing you do is always the thing you most want to do.

I disagree, but how does that cope with the no free will statements you just did?

I'll torture you and force you to eat your own defecations and drink your pee, it's that what you most want to do?

I'm not even doing what I most wanna do right now. I should have gone to have dinner like twenty minutes ago because it has been an exhausting day and I'm glued at the screen. So whatever, let's resolve this lack of integrity right now.

 

Edited September 29, 2024 by Davino

[Epikur]

12 minutes ago, Davino said:

@Epikur Discipline is saying no to a good thing to say yes to a higher good thing. It takes wisdom to see it and power to execute it.

I disagree, but how does that cope with the no free will statements you just did?

I'll torture you and force you to eat your own defecations and drink your pee, it's that what you most want to do?

I'm not even doing what I most wanna do right now. I should have gone to have dinner like twenty minutes ago because it has been an exhausting day and I'm glued at the screen. So whatever, let's resolve this lack of integrity right now.

 

Discipline is about choosing better things over good things, regardless of how we label them.

You're right that this concept doesn't quite align with free will, which is why I believe we operate under an illusion. When we talk about discipline, we often don’t recognize that our choices are influenced by our programming.

When faced with coercion, I may engage in undesirable actions, but I do so because, in that moment, it's the most rewarding option available to me. It provides the highest dopamine effect, driving my motivation.

I also find myself not doing what I think I should be doing. This suggests that, practically, I may simply be less motivated to pursue those tasks because they don't offer the same immediate dopamine reward.

[Sugarcoat]

59 minutes ago, Schizophonia said:

Yes.

If you're like me and are too lazy to maintain a strict diet and very intense sport activity, you finish by having less stress,less hurt yourself physically, and actually shift your energy to more interesting things.

Ok . 

[Davino]

12 hours ago, Epikur said:

I also find myself not doing what I think I should be doing. This suggests that, practically, I may simply be less motivated to pursue those tasks because they don't offer the same immediate dopamine reward.

Nicely said 

[The Renaissance Man]

@HMD In the 7 habits of highly effective people (book) by Covey, the first 3 habits can be helpful. Especially habit 2, which is about learning to operate from a set of principles rather than survival stuff. He calls it a "center".

I thought it was going to be a superficial book but man was I wrong. The title can be misleading, there's a lot of wisdom in there (it's also in Leo's list)

Healthgamer on YouTube has a product with a section on motivation. It's not the best, but the perspective is a bit different, and it's quite more sopthisticated than "just be disciplined". But as I said, it's not the best, it's original but a bit all over the place. The main lesson I got from the course is how motivation works, and it's about consciousness:

It's about how conscious you are, and the perception you have of: risks, benefits, and likelihood of success. These are the 3 components.

 

The situation with motivation is quite complex though, I still don't have a solid grasp of every variable and solid techniques, plus I don't think writing everything I discovered here would make much sense, it's not the place. I think the missing piece is in how to get yourself to be conscious of the right things. That's the whole gist of motivation. I believe it's not even about habits.

But I still haven't found a solid, everlasting solution.