Only that which is unborn will never die

[Someone here]

20 hours ago, Princess Arabia said:

I don't understand, there is no past. Also how can something infinitely exist in passing if there is no time.

A beginningless thing cannot die because if it can it must've been dead since infinite time in the past . Only that which is beginningless can be endless .and that thing is nothingness aka God. 

[Thought Art]

@Someone here or something ness aka God

Edited April 6 by Thought Art

[Thought Art]

18 hours ago, Javfly33 said:

 

Who hold the tools for the deepest awakenings?

I guess psychedelics? Those things that have been done by millions of people in the world? 😂

Do you guys realize you are not the only guys that have smoked dmt and 5-meo in the world?

I guess. But not sure if spiritual work is about shitting yourself or having crazy realisations and experiences. 

See, is just not with psychedelics. You can take Crystal Meth for 7 days straight without sleeping and you'll have some crazy experiences too. 

What you guys teach is not going towards liberation. Experiences or understanding is not getting you towards enlightment or liberation. Is actually entangling you more and more. The fact that Leo thinks understanding is the highest point of this work just tells it all. 

Of course. As far as we can tell there is no history of 5meo use and it’s not part of Buddhist internal science. That’s all.

Even Buddhist Qigong has limitations compared to Taoist Qigong. Though, it also has differences which make it worthwhile to practice too. 
 

Psychedelics are outside of Buddhist framing. 
 

There are many tools in spiritual tool box if you wish to use them. By using them you can begin to have awakenings that those who don’t use your tools are completely ignorant too. 
 

My example of Buddha shitting his pants was a joke to show that Buddha likely lacked certain technology to access certain states. Such as Salvia for example. These states are challenging. 
 

State is very important for going beyond logic to have realizations and awakenings. Of course there are many ways to change state. 
 

5Meodmt is simply a very powerful and direct route. And it’s use is rather modern as it was only discovered like 40 years ago. 
 

No one is claiming we are the only ones to use it. We are not dumb. But, we note it is something that provides insight outside traditional Buddhist framing. nnDMT, LSD and even mushrooms provide spiritual experiences which exist outside Buddhist practice. 
 

So, I suggest a mature approach. 

Edited April 6 by Thought Art

[Someone here]

@Thought Art its getting silly at this point .

We will keep arguing past each there trying to outsmart each other .

Something is nothing. This is the ultimate duality that must be broken to fully awaken.

If you don't believe me watch Leo's video why there is something rarher than nothing. Might be illuminating.

[Thought Art]

@Someone here I am familiar with it and have watched it many times. Leo has gone beyond that. And, I’ve even read a book on Leo’s book list about God is Nothing  
 

But… It’s simply not the only frame. It’s also not exactly accurate. Leo outgrows older videos. You can see posts from Leo years after that video him saying God is not nothing. 

Consciousnesses is simply more accurate. Awakening shows this. 

Edited April 6 by Thought Art

[Someone here]

8 minutes ago, Thought Art said:

@Someone here I am familiar with it and have watched it many times. Leo has gone beyond that. And, I’ve even read a book on Leo’s book list about God is Nothing  
 

But… It’s simply not the only frame. It’s also not exactly accurate. Leo outgrows older videos. You can see posts from Leo years after that video him saying God is not nothing. 

Consciousnesses is simply more accurate. Awakening shows this. 

I'm not denying consciousness.  Please try to understand my position clearly . Consciousness exists . But what is consciousness?  Its a shape shifting substance that has no ground . What's tripping you up in this inquiry is you imagine nothingness to be black void . No ..nothingness is a shape shifter that takes on endless forms but in its essence its not any particular form specifically 

 

[Water by the River]

1 hour ago, Thought Art said:

Psychedelics are outside of Buddhist framing. 

 

Secret Drugs of Buddhism: Psychedelic Sacraments and the Origins of the Vajrayana, Michael Crowley.

[Javfly33]

4 hours ago, Thought Art said:

 

No one is claiming we are the only ones to use it. We are not dumb. But, we note it is something that provides insight outside traditional Buddhist framing. nnDMT, LSD and even mushrooms provide spiritual experiences which exist outside Buddhist practice. 

 

Who cares about experiences? 

You can also go to amusement park and have experience outside Buddhist framing.... I just don´t get your point.

 

Quote

Psychedelics are outside of Buddhist framing. 
 

I´m sure. Also crack cocaine, meth, heroin and weed is outside buddisht framing. SO? 

 

Quote

My example of Buddha shitting his pants was a joke to show that Buddha likely lacked certain technology to access certain states. Such as Salvia for example. These states are challenging. 

Yes, also hitting your balls with a tennis raquette is a challenging state .

Why you assume there is any correlation between the psychonaut masochism of pursuing difficult experiences with having spiritual success ?

 

Quote

By using them you can begin to have awakenings that those who don’t use your tools are completely ignorant too. 

Who told you experiencing wacky states of conciousness on Salvia is useful for enlightment or that experiencing that makes you 'above' the boring buddhists? 

 

Edited April 6 by Javfly33

[Thought Art]

@Javfly33 Well, if that’s your take on Psychedelics that’s fine. 
 

- Growing clinical evidence of their healing ability. For many people it’s not only how the psychedelics change the brain and body but the actual experience that is healing and that experience can have long term healing implications. 

- Thousands of years using psychedelics as religious sacraments 

- You could say “vegetables? Why not just eat a bunch of chocolate bars?” 
 

- Making quality distinctions between substances is important. There is a reason we talk about mushrooms here and not cocaine as a spiritual tool. 
 

- It’s not about challenging states. Psychedelics can reveal profound truths about reality and consciousness. 
 

- It’s okay for us to disagree 😊 The world is your oyster my friend. You can do spirituality however you want. But, note when you speak on things you lack experience in. (I don’t know your history with psychedelics)

Edited April 6 by Thought Art

[Thought Art]

6 hours ago, Water by the River said:

 

Secret Drugs of Buddhism: Psychedelic Sacraments and the Origins of the Vajrayana, Michael Crowley.

Wow! Thanks. 
 

I will have to take a look later. I am always learning. 
 

There is likely psychedelic use found in all religion. 
 

Again 5meodmt is relatively recent though and has no history.

Edited April 6 by Thought Art

[Thought Art]

7 hours ago, Someone here said:

I'm not denying consciousness.  Please try to understand my position clearly . Consciousness exists . But what is consciousness?  Its a shape shifting substance that has no ground . What's tripping you up in this inquiry is you imagine nothingness to be black void . No ..nothingness is a shape shifter that takes on endless forms but in its essence its not any particular form specifically 

 

There we go! 😊 I resonate with that.

Edited April 6 by Thought Art

[Javfly33]

3 hours ago, Thought Art said:

@Javfly33 Well, if that’s your take on Psychedelics that’s fine. 

The world is your oyster my friend. You can do spirituality however you want. But, note when you speak on things you lack experience in. (I don’t know your history with psychedelics)

I never said that psychedelics weren't useful or had tremendous potential for growing. 

Literally doing Psychedelics saved me from killing myself 8-9 years ago, those first acid trips gave me a new chance at life, and I took it. So I´m not forgetting that. 

So, I am not talking from a perspective of a person who hasn´t done psychedelics or even not have benefit from them.

Is just that liberation and enlightment is different from what psychedelics offer. But some of you guys after 50 trips still don´t want to accept they are clearly not getting you there. If that wasn´t obvious at this point. 

Edited April 6 by Javfly33

[Thought Art]

@Javfly33 Haha, want me to show my my enlightenment or awakenings in this little box I keep under my bed?

[Someone here]

@Thought Art great !

But it is my fault . I should've cleared up my terminology so I don't confuse people that I think consciousness isn't eternal. 

Edited April 6 by Someone here

[Princess Arabia]

16 hours ago, Someone here said:

I'm not denying consciousness.  Please try to understand my position clearly . Consciousness exists . But what is consciousness?  Its a shape shifting substance that has no ground . What's tripping you up in this inquiry is you imagine nothingness to be black void . No ..nothingness is a shape shifter that takes on endless forms but in its essence its not any particular form specifically 

 

Love this. Looks like my experience the other day. Subtle version of this though, much more subtle. If I saw this exact same thing I would have thought who the hell is throwing silent fireworks this time of year. It's like it was an intro for "here I am". 

[Javfly33]

10 hours ago, Thought Art said:

@Javfly33 Haha, want me to show my my enlightenment or awakenings in this little box I keep under my bed?

Not sure if you say it about me, I never said I was enlightened. 

[Bazooka Jesus]

On 5.4.2024 at 1:36 PM, Water by the River said:

.Seems it is easier to tear something down if it is not fully understood...

Yes it is. But how else can you feel superior over "Buddhist rats", right?

This is why contrary to what Leo and his band of parrots want to make people believe, arrogance is most definitely not a virtue. It makes you deaf, dumb and blind towards that which you are arrogant against. So, arrogance is really just another word for stupidity.

[Bazooka Jesus]

On 5.4.2024 at 2:29 PM, Thought Art said:

It’s also rude to ascribe a low conscious intent to “feel better about yourself” when people may be actually pointing to something when saying that not all spirituality is Buddhism, not all awakening and enlightenment is Buddhamind or nothing of Nagarjuna.

If you have a problem with rudeness, then you're clearly hanging out on the wrong dude's website. Lol.

[Bazooka Jesus]

On 5.4.2024 at 3:02 PM, Javfly33 said:

I guess. But not sure if spiritual work is about shitting yourself or having crazy realisations and experiences. 

See, is just not with psychedelics. You can take Crystal Meth for 7 days straight without sleeping and you'll have some crazy experiences too. 

What you guys teach is not going towards liberation. Experiences or understanding is not getting you towards enlightment or liberation. Is actually entangling you more and more. The fact that Leo thinks understanding is the highest point of this work just tells it all. 

👏👏👏👏👏👏👏👏👏👏👏👏👏👏

Very well said.

[Water by the River]

20 hours ago, Thought Art said:

Wow! Thanks. 
 

I will have to take a look later. I am always learning. 
 

There is likely psychedelic use found in all religion. 
 

Again 5meodmt is relatively recent though and has no history.

Welcome.

Maybe you find this here also interesting:

https://www.psychedelicsangha.org/paisley-gate/2019/5/8/the-supreme-array-scripture-a-psychedelic-stra-for-buddhist-psychonauts-pp3zz#:~:text=Composed sometime around the third,cosmic vision of the universe.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gandavyuha

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Borobudur

Of course, all medieval interpretations of the multiverse, but how could it be different for psychonauts back in the day...

 

And the origins of all religions seem to be rooted in psychedelic usage:

Book: Ruck, Carl: Persephone's Quest: Entheogens and the Origins of Religion

Presentation: