Leo you misunderstand Hitler completely

[Danioover9000]

@Inliytened1

18 minutes ago, Inliytened1 said:

Here it is 

 

   But that's assume democracy and bureaucracy don't have enough inbuilt enforcement mechanisms to defend against these types of psychos. Ironically this is a good depiction of a Nazi with Nazism being of the ultra right wing extreme, anti socialist, anti progressive, anti liberal, anti education, anti democracy, anti egalitarianism, and pro individualism but only if you love Adolf Hitler. 

   Also, how does this relate back to Leo's blog post that Nazism isn't a social nationalist party, and relate back to OP's position?

Edited March 28, 2024 by Danioover9000

[Inliytened1]

10 minutes ago, Danioover9000 said:

@Inliytened1

   But that's assume democracy and bureaucracy don't have enough inbuilt enforcement mechanisms to defend against these types of psychos.

   Also, how does this relate back to Leo's blog post that Nazism isn't a social nationalist party, and relate back to OP's position?

I agree with all of that I'm just saying liberals hold the same prejudice fhst conservatives do they just conceal it better.   So I agree with OP.  Leo said another Hitler couldn't be created but he's assuming Hitler was a product of his culture.  Culture plays a role but dude was insane.  Chaos dictates that culture isn't the only thing at play and another can rise up.

Edited March 28, 2024 by Inliytened1

[Danioover9000]

@Inliytened1

Just now, Inliytened1 said:

I agree with all of that I'm just saying liberals hold the same prejudice fhst conservatives do they just conceal it better.   So I agree a OP.  Leo a said another Hitler couldn't be created but he's assuming Hitler was a product of his culture.  Culture plays a role but dude was insane.  

   Sure but Hitler was made from both environmental factors and other developmental factors involved, especially having a super traditional father, a loving mother who died too early, having seen his older brother pass away, having lived and survived through WW1 and having a few bad experiences, failing as an artist and painter when the surrealist movement was more popular, and blaming Germany's economic downfall to Jews when it's downfall is mainly from losing the war and the severe economic sanctions by the axis powers then, so I agree with Leo here when he said culture and environment also plays a role.

   Wait how do Liberals hold the same prejudice as conservatives do, especially when Liberals are left wing and conservatives are right wing??? 

[Inliytened1]

4 minutes ago, Danioover9000 said:

@Inliytened1

    Wait how do Liberals hold the same prejudice as conservatives do, especially when Liberals are left wing and conservatives are right wing??? 

Good question.   But can you quantify it either way?

[Danioover9000]

@Inliytened1

3 minutes ago, Inliytened1 said:

Good question.   But can you quantify it either way?

   Yes I can.

 

 

Edited March 28, 2024 by Danioover9000

[Inliytened1]

12 minutes ago, Danioover9000 said:

@Inliytened1

   Yes I can.

 

 

There's still going to be a grey area.  There could still be a racist liberal- or a liberal that holds bigotry or bias towards their own race.  So this throws it all out the window.  What you are going by when you say Hitler is a conservative is an estimated guess.    I don't think Leo dismissed this - so let's be clear.  That's just his perspective.   I just think we should look at the individual and not his political view.   That's fhe point of my contribution. 

Edited March 28, 2024 by Inliytened1

[aurum]

27 minutes ago, Inliytened1 said:

Leo said another Hitler couldn't be created but he's assuming Hitler was a product of his culture.  Culture plays a role but dude was insane.

Actual insane people do not have that much power. Hitler tapped into deep resentment and bitterness that already existed among the German people, which is partially why he was able to do what he did. This is because the leader and the people being led are ONE SYSTEM, where their existence depends on each other.

Development cuts BOTH ways. A stage Red / Blue society cannot behave like a Orange / Green society because it is not developed enough. But also, an Orange / Green society cannot behave like a Red / Blue one. At a certain point the behavior simply becomes untenable from BOTH directions. 

That being said, of course it is theoretically possible for a disaster to strike and for a regression in the Spiral. But it is unlikely. There are systemic forces that keep these things in check going both ways.

[Inliytened1]

2 minutes ago, aurum said:

Actual insane people do not have that much power.

They can rise to power through deception.  It's possible.   If their social skills are good enough they can.

 

2 minutes ago, aurum said:

, of course it is theoretically possible for a disaster to strike and for a regression in the Spiral. .

The spiral is just a model.  There is such a thing as chaos and that is what you point out here  I didn't say it was likely I said it was possible.  It's also possible that liberals can be bigots.  Anything is possible.   If there is anything one should glean from these videos it should be that.

[Danioover9000]

   Jordan Peterson is such an anti vaxxer, and such a deep climate crisis denial, that the last part of that video when he's talking about prison and criminality, he fails to factor in say 1960 up to 2000 the high levels of lead and some arsenic, produced by carbon emissions by diesel fuels being burned by cars and trucks and buses that led to a spike of criminality. But after the government implemented a bill on carbon emissions criminality dropped a bit. So much for climate denial!🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣

[Inliytened1]

4 minutes ago, Danioover9000 said:

   Jordan Peterson is such an anti vaxxer, and such a deep climate crisis denial, that the last part of that video when he's talking about prison and criminality, he fails to factor in say 1960 up to 2000 the high levels of lead and some arsenic, produced by carbon emissions by diesel fuels being burned by cars and trucks and buses that led to a spike of criminality. But after the government implemented a bill on carbon emissions criminality dropped a bit. So much for climate denial!🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣

How is this pertinent to this thread?

[Danioover9000]

@Inliytened1

2 minutes ago, Inliytened1 said:

They can rise to power through deception.  It's possible.   If their social skills are good enough they can.

 

The spiral is just a model.  There is such a thing as chaos and that is what you point out here  I didn't say it was likely I said it was possible.  It's also possible that liberals can be bigots.  Anything is possible.   If there is anything one should glean from these videos it should be that.

   Spiral Dynamics is merely a modal? So far when it comes to medaling human values cultural development, nothing comes close to Spiral Dynamic's 98% accuracy to the reality of human values development, other than scientific modals of reality. Yes there's some degree of chaos he pointed out, but then you did a fallacy of semantics by claiming I didn't say it's likely but it's possible. Possible and likely are the same word and same meaning within the probability scale, saying it's likely and it's possible means it's above 50% likelihood so the semantics fallacy here isn't necessary. However you then further commit the whataboutism and generalization fallacy by first saying that 'it's also possible that liberals can be bigots. Anything is possible.'. It's comparable to saying 'Black lives matter.' but you're counter is 'it's also possible that white lives do matter. All lives matter. Also I'm saying it's likely it's possible that all lives matter.'

[aurum]

1 minute ago, Inliytened1 said:

They can rise to power through deception.  It's possible.   If their social skills are good enough they can.

No. Deception only gets you so far. 

1 minute ago, Inliytened1 said:

The spiral is just a model.  There is such a thing as chaos and that is what you point out here  I didn't say it was likely I said it was possible.  It's also possible that liberals can be bigots.  Anything is possible.   If there is anything one should glean from these videos it should be that.

If you want to go with a "anything is possible" technicality, fine. But it's rather meaningless then. It should be obvious we are talking about likely outcomes, not what fantasy might be theoretically possible.

[Danioover9000]

@Inliytened1 I'm responding to your post:

34 minutes ago, Inliytened1 said:

Good question.   But can you quantify it either way?

 

By showing it can be quantified here:

 

32 minutes ago, Danioover9000 said:

@Inliytened1

   Yes I can.

 

 

 

So how is this post countering my post when you are asking me to give you a quantifiable way to determine a conservative mind versus a liberal mind in a scientific and quantifiable way?

20 minutes ago, Inliytened1 said:

There's still going to be a grey area.  There could still be a racist liberal- or a liberal that holds bigotry or bias towards their own race.  So this throws it all out the window.  What you are going by when you say Hitler is a conservative is an estimated guess.    I don't think Leo dismissed this - so let's be clear.  That's just his perspective.   I just think we should look at the individual and not his political view.   That's fhe point of my contribution. 

 

[aurum]

3 hours ago, Nilsi said:

To add some spice to the discussion: I would place Hitler within the SD Green stage.

The way he deconstructs all the prevalent grand narratives of his time and blurs the lines between description and normativity in the aforementioned speech is classic postmodernist rhetoric and foreshadows the more rigorous academic formulations of this intellectual sensibility.

Hitler was neither SD Green in content OR structure. Just because you can deconstruct narratives and blur lines does not make you Green. This is an absurd distortion of the model.

[Danioover9000]

@aurum

3 minutes ago, aurum said:

No. Deception only gets you so far. 

If you want to go with a "anything is possible" technicality, fine. But it's rather meaningless then. It should be obvious we are talking about likely outcomes, not what fantasy might be theoretically possible.

   Not only is it meaningless it's useless within argumentation as that's a generalization and semantics fallacy, plus a moot and bailey fallacy by making a specific claim first about liberals likely being bigots it's possible, but then him saying 'anything is possible' and not mentioning that also conservatives can possibly be bigots too and even bringing in the ratio or probability that one side could be higher in bigotry than the other can also be a slippery slope fallacy, it's also a fallacy of omission.

[Danioover9000]

@aurum

3 minutes ago, aurum said:

Hitler was neither SD Green in content OR structure. Just because you can deconstruct narratives and blur lines does not make you Green. This is an absurd distortion of the model.

   That's also true because Hitler and the Nazi party were intentionally proclaiming they're social nationalists rather than ultra nationalist alt right because they don't want to honestly say they're anti democratic, anti socialist, anti progressive, anti liberal, anti education, and are racists. This is technically misinformation and propaganda by false branding or false advertising.

[Guest Nilsi]

16 minutes ago, aurum said:

Hitler was neither SD Green in content OR structure. Just because you can deconstruct narratives and blur lines does not make you Green. This is an absurd distortion of the model.

Characterize the structure of SD Green for me then, if you don't mind.

[Danioover9000]

@Nilsi

4 minutes ago, Nilsi said:

Characterize the structure of SD Green for me then, if you don't mind.

   Spiral Dynamics stage green: Hippies, new agers, SJWs, political activists, socialists, progressives, liberals, animal welfare, PETA, environmental activists, love, compassion, kindness, empathy, empaths...hot witch girlfriends.

   More examples:

   So, considering all that, is Adolf Hitler and the Nazi party at stage green values, given the holocaust, the concentration camps, SS Gestappo secret police, breeding programs, sterilization of Jews, and burning libraries and silencing opposition?

Edited March 28, 2024 by Danioover9000

[Inliytened1]

36 minutes ago, aurum said:

No. Deception only gets you so far. 

If you want to go with a "anything is possible" technicality, fine. But it's rather meaningless then. It should be obvious we are talking about likely outcomes, not what fantasy might be theoretically possible.

Likely outcomes are fantasy as well.  Just be aware of that. 

[aurum]

2 hours ago, Nilsi said:

Characterize the structure of SD Green for me then, if you don't mind.

Not Nazi propaganda.

Do not confuse SD Green post-modernism / deconstruction. If Hitler was truly post-modern in his approach, he would have had to deconstruct and relativize his entire Nazi ideology, which of course is the exact opposite of what he did. His ideological structure was Absolutist / Blue, mixed with devilry.

Edited March 29, 2024 by aurum