Israel / Palestine News Thread

[Leo Gura]

9 minutes ago, Hardkill said:

Ohhhh........I get it now. So, it wasn't just to start a war with Israel or simply to get revenge or power.

Netanyahu's whole plan was to circumvent negotiations with Palestinians by making business deals with the rest of the Arab world, thereby isolating and weakening Palestine.

Oct 7th was done to let the world know that that's not acceptable.

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But Israel wants to drag its allies, particularly the US into a war with Palestine, Lebanon, Hezbollah, and Iran.

Netanyahu has been horny for the US to do a war with Iran for 25 years now.

Edited September 20, 2024 by Leo Gura

[Leo Gura]

3 minutes ago, Nivsch said:

So too rape, torture, burning people alive and gas chambers.

I don't think that's true because most governments try to hide such things. Even the Nazis were not announcing their gas chambers to the world. They hid it. Torture and rape is also hidden and denied by most nations. So the purpose there is something else.

[Hardkill]

1 minute ago, Leo Gura said:

Netanyahu's whole plan was to circumvent negotiations with Palestinians by making business deals with the rest of the Arab world, thereby isolating and weakening Palestine.

Oct 7th was done to let the world know that that's not acceptable.

Netanyahu has be horny for the US to do a war with Iran for 25 years now.

Well, their terrorist attack was absolutely unacceptable and what will this raise in global awareness to their injustice perceived accomplished in the end? 

Bin Laden's 9/11 attack didn't lead to greater compassion for Arabs in the end.

[Hardkill]

8 minutes ago, Leo Gura said:

Netanyahu has be horny for the US to do a war with Iran for 25 years now.

Well, now it looks like Israel is going to invade southern Lebanon soon. Does this mean that Hezbollah Iran will now go to war to with Israel soon?

Edited September 20, 2024 by Hardkill

[Leo Gura]

6 minutes ago, Hardkill said:

what will this raise in global awareness to their injustice perceived accomplished in the end? 

But it has been successful in highlighting the injustice of how Israel treats Palestinians.

Of course terrorism does backfire too.

Edited September 20, 2024 by Leo Gura

[Atb210201]

3 minutes ago, Hardkill said:

Well, now it looks like Israel is going to invade southern Lebanon soon. Does this mean that Hezbollah Iran will now go to war to with Israel soon?

It's escalating but I don't think Iran is ready for a full on war anytime now

Because the state doesn't have the support of most of the people inside the country 

[Leo Gura]

I hope Americans are not stupid enough to put troops in the Middle East again.

[Raze]

9 minutes ago, Hardkill said:

Well, now it looks like Israel is going to invade southern Lebanon soon. Does this mean that Hezbollah Iran will now go to war to with Israel soon?

The purpose of the proxies is so Iran doesn’t have to get their hands dirty. They’ll avoid it but a better question is if Israel will try to bring them in.

[Raze]

1 minute ago, Leo Gura said:

I hope Americans are not stupid enough to put troops in the Middle East again.

We won’t have a choice. If Israel gets overrun they’ll use the Samson directive and that must be avoided. Also AIPAC has almost total control now so they can get it to happen. 

[Leo Gura]

1 minute ago, Raze said:

We won’t have a choice. If Israel gets overrun they’ll use the Samson directive and that must be avoided. Also AIPAC has almost total control now so they can get it to happen. 

I doubt it. The CIA is actually pretty smart.

They knew that invading Iraq was an insane idea. The heads in the CIA opposed the Iraq War. They were forced into it by Cheney and his minions.

[Raze]

28 minutes ago, Hardkill said:

However, Sinwar and his men are just power hungry like Bin Laden was.

More like they had a death wish 

[Hardkill]

Just now, Leo Gura said:

I hope Americans are not stupid enough to put troops in the Middle East again.

Mearsheimer recently said that he finds that hard to believe that will happen any time soon and that the US is likely to send in air and naval defenses for Israel.

[Atb210201]

4 minutes ago, Leo Gura said:

I hope Americans are not stupid enough to put troops in the Middle East again.

Never understood why they do that though

Is it because they want to protect the region from wars by their troops

Or is it because they want to conquer other regions and have empirialistic agendas to start a war and gain profits by selling arms

I don't know maybe both are true at the same time

 

[Raze]

4 minutes ago, Leo Gura said:

I doubt it. The CIA is actually pretty smart.

They knew that invading Iraq was an insane idea. The heads in the CIA opposed the Iraq War. They were forced into it by Cheney and his minions.

So why would they want to abandon their Israel project? 
 

They aren’t that smart.  They funded Islamists in Afghanistan to trigger a Soviet invasion and that lead to the taliban and Al Queda, then they failed to catch Osama Bin Laden. They also installed a dictator in Iran and it lead to the Islamic revolution and a major actor resisting the US. 

Edited September 20, 2024 by Raze

[Leo Gura]

20 minutes ago, Raze said:

They funded Islamists in Afghanistan to trigger a Soviet invasion and that lead to the taliban and Al Queda, then they failed to catch Osama Bin Laden.

That's actually not true. I just read a book about this.

The CIA did not fund Al Queda. The CIA funded anti-communist local Afghans fighters. Al Queda and Bin Laden were self-funded and had no cooperation with Americans. Bin Laden was not a local, he just larped around the local Afghan fighters. Bin Laden had less than 100 fighters in Afghanistan while the local Afghan fighters were 100,000+.

The CIA did quite a good job hunting after Bin Laden long before 9/11. The CIA understood the Bin Laden threat back in the mid 90s, long before 9/11. He was just hard to catch.

Edited September 20, 2024 by Leo Gura

[Kokorec]

Hey @Leo Gura curious about this appreciate if you could give your perceptive?

I could say "they did it first" but that doesn't feel right.

Then what do you do when you are in this situation fight,war,divorce etc. and the other side plays it dirty and doesn't care about truth(or less than you)?

[Raze]

9 minutes ago, Leo Gura said:

That's actually not true. I just read a book about this.

The CIA did not fund Al Queda. The CIA funded anti-communist local Afghans fighters. Al Queda and Bin Laden were self-funded and had no cooperation with Americans. Bin Laden was not a local, he just larped around the local Afghan fighters. Bin Laden had less than 100 fighters in Afghanistan while the local Afghan fighters were 100,000+.

I know, but by funding the islamists bin Laden and others rode their victory to fame which later allowed him to form Al queda and spread extremist ideology, and some of the  Islamists turned into the taliban 

Edited September 20, 2024 by Raze

[Leo Gura]

10 minutes ago, Raze said:

I know, but by funding the islamists bin Laden and others rode their victory to fame which later allowed him to form Al queda and spread extremist ideology, and some of the  Islamists turned into the taliban 

The US was fighting a Cold War against the spread of Soviet Communism. That was mostly done by funding local opposition. That was pretty smart strategy overall, given how disasterous communism was. I don't fault the CIA for that. The spread of communism was a major problem. It was spreading like a cancer.

13 minutes ago, Kokorec said:

Hey @Leo Gura curious about this appreciate if you could give your perceptive?

I could say "they did it first" but that doesn't feel right.

Then what do you do when you are in this situation fight,war,divorce etc. and the other side plays it dirty and doesn't care about truth(or less than you)?

It's hard to give a general answer.

But in general what you do is deescalate by not making aggressive moves, and very importantly you have to be open to genuinely hearing their perspective, you have to really want to understand their greivances, rather than just insisting that that you are good and they are evil. Once the other side feels heard there can be genuine compromise.

This is exactly what Israel refuses to do.

Edited September 20, 2024 by Leo Gura

[Raze]

Just now, Leo Gura said:

The US was fighting a Cold War against the spread of Soviet Communism. That was mostly done by funding local opposition. That was pretty smart strategy overall, given how disasterous communism was. I don't fault the CIA for that. The spread of communism was a major problem. It was spreading like a cancer.

US officials admitted they funded Islamists in Afghanistan to trigger a soviet invasion to kill Soviets and weaken the Soviet Union. This resulted in over 2 million Afghani civilians dying.

The idea that communism was spreading was a theory called domino theory that has been debunked. It also lead to the Vietnam war.

The CIA’s behavior was catastrophic. 

[Leo Gura]

46 minutes ago, Raze said:

US officials admitted they funded Islamists in Afghanistan to trigger a soviet invasion to kill Soviets and weaken the Soviet Union. This resulted in over 2 million Afghani civilians dying.

Yeah, but the Soviets were spreading communism to Afghanistan. The Muslim locals did not want to live under a secular communist puppet regime. It is proper for Islamists to be in charge of Afghanistan. Most of the population are Islamist there. Soviet communism is out of place there.

It was the Afghans' choice to fight for their independence from Soviet influence. Just like how Ukrainans choose now to resist Putin's influence. If Afghans wanted communism they could have just accepted it peacefully. But obviously that would have been a bad choice for them.

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The idea that communism was spreading was a theory called domino theory that has been debunked.

Debunked?? It literally happened in dozens of nations. Communism was a global movement that spread like cancer, infecting dozens of nations like North Korea, Cuba, the Middle East, Asia, Eastern Europe, etc.

Lenin's whole thing was international communism, gaining a foothold in Russia and then spreading to cover the whole globe. That's what the whole Cold War was about. Stalin tried to inflitrate every nation he could with his commuist influence and stage communist revolutions across Europe, Asia, and the Middle East. Many of these revolutions failed, or were stopped with the help of capitialist powers.

Edited September 21, 2024 by Leo Gura