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funny, hm? When you hit yourself with a hammer on the knee that is also illusory. Same as with the separate-self that you mostly consider yourself to be during everday life (at least I assume). It hurts (not all the time, but regularly), and if you don't know how to switch that off and release the self-contraction, you are going to suffer. Illusion yes, but suffering. yes. And? You prefer the suffering over the bliss? Oh yes there is. It feels quite similiar what you get when to go for a trip. Except one doesn't need the psychedelic then. Dissolving the self-contraction/duality/suffering with on-board-devices, independend of the 5-MeO or whatever, and having a blissfull nondual state of infinite release. The visual field turning into mere appearance/clear light "hovering" in infinite consciousness. Ones true being, right here, right now. No more clouds of ignorance/self-contraction. The suffering IS the mechanism that never lets the separate-self or self-contraction stop seeking and suffering until it is dissolved in its True Being. After doing that long enough, there is a deep switching point of identity and access to this flow of bliss. Its called Full Enlightenment. Look forward to it! That is actually way better news of your(!) Potential than anything you wrote of in your post. It is your own potential, your True Nature. I am not telling you to do anything different (as practice) than what you are doing right now, but just consider to stop declaring heaven inexistent. You know, its a grave sin listed in the Catechism of the Catholic Church to declare heaven non-existant Water by the River

Yes. And when there are ever more Awakenings n+1, the real Awakening/Full Enlightenment hasn't happen yet. And this is a very beautiful and very true statement. That love/bliss/compassion is what stabilizes the shift into ones True Being. And where there is not much love/bliss/compassion... Water by the River

I basically wrote the same here: in the post below. Linking to the same questions from months ago. No real answer also, besides some anecdotes abouts rats and icepicks. @Moksha, apparently (and actually) there is no counter-argument remaining concerning what you wrote. Basically, it boils down to the these two aspects: 1) Full Enlightenment = all is illusion, imagination and dream, n+1 (my post quoted above). The realization (all is illusion&dream&imagined) as such apparently is still considered as valid, although that is denied when claimed by Buddhist or "Nonduals" or whatevers, which are supposedly all still dreaming. Without giving any reasons for that, and which is contrary to your experience, and that of countless others having realized their True Nature. 2) Suffering continues until stable establishment of staying permanently in ones True Identity of being Infinite Impersonal Reality/Consciousness (or stable Full Enlightenment), and having the Illusion arising within Oneself. Which requires the complete transcendence/death of any separate-self identity. Apparently a hefty price to be paid. Maybe to hefty for some, surrendering all ones attachments and preferences. All would be so nice and well and lovely, but all these Buddhist rats and other horrible stuff manifesting as illusion in ones dream , apparently still with the potential to spoil the beauty of Absolute Reality Awakening. For me, it looks a bit like some like chasing ones own tail. And being a little bit less than happy if somebody points out that the tail & everything else IS already Ones True Being, and rather prefers to not join the chasing & delighting in the chase. To each his own & Caveat Emptor. Selling Water by the River

Look for yourself. There is nothing. Here are words appearing out of that. Here is a screen appearing out of that. Here is the mind trying to understand it. Here is the mind applying language in an attempt to communicate it. How can you communicate nothing, when language is invented to communicate something? It is a dead end. Every teaching you listen to, and every string of words you read, that tries to communicate nothing/everything, is what you are looking for, acting as if it is not. I haven't been on this forum for a couple of years, I just had an impulse to check out what is going on here. I see people from back then still spouting nonsense till this day. No one can really tell you what to do. I can't say that you should leave this forum and forget about all of this, because chances are you can't. I couldn't, until I did. But this is a dead end, and it will always be. Life doesn't come with a manual, you just have to live it. Every person on here is sitting behind a phone screen or computer screen typing in words, and some will think it means something. Some person could say "there is no one here, there is no one typing," alright, but if I tracked your IP address and flew to your house and shouted your name from outside your window. You would stop writing, get up out of your bed and look outside your window. I would then continue to provoke you to come outside, and we would have a street fight right then and there. Then, after I won, I would go inside your house, go to actualized.org on your computer and send a GIF of a monkey dancing to Leo with a link to this song: Then he would reach full enlightenment and we would all be saved!

"Everyone of these nondualist/Buddhist teachers who thinks he is enlightened is dreaming it and its not conscious that he's doing so. He tells himself that he's awake, he truly believes it" That is your assumption, and it is incorrect. There is no agency-arising left that identifies with "is enlightened" and which is still believed and not seen as dream, moving as illusion arising within Infinite Consciousness/Reality. There is no one left who believes he is awake. That is exactly what is seen through with Full Enlightenment. Enlightenment is the Realization that there is no separate anything, nevery was (only as illusion), and never will be. Only the Totality of Absolute Reality. Water by the River

Yes. Let us assume a few things as true (and see if they resonate): (1) that Reality ultimately is "good" (and not evil) and wants every being to finally realize its True Being. (2) Which (realizing True Being) luckily is the same as peace/bliss/happiness. (3) What is the ONLY way to ensure that? Suffering until realizing Ones True Being. At least suffering from time to time, to make beings keep searching and growing... Only Alternative to that is: happy ever after not knowing or realizing what one really is, or what Reality is. Forever. Sounds rather cruel to me.... It is some kind of mathematical-logical formula if we just work with these three assumptions (that is why I wrote if they resonate). If we assume that these three points (1) (2) (3) are true, there has to be sometimes suffering until Full Realization happens. And only the final thing (Full Realization, Deep Identity Level Shift of Full Enlightenment) delivers the peace of the transcedence of suffering. And its not bleak, empty, dead, nothing, or "personal minus". It is the Fullness of Reality, personal/character (plus) minus separation. The celebration of manifestation, but without attachment. The character then can grow to its full potential, fear gone, joy and celebration here and now. And the even better news is: One only illusory "leaving" ones True Nature and being separate. No"one" ever could really be separate. That is not possible in an Infinite Totality. It can only appear as such. The ILLUSION-arising of the separate-self within Oneself (True Self). So THAT is the ultimate criteria or compass if there is one: Suffering or not. Separate-Self Contraction (and Illusion/Ignorance) or not. An imaginary trip back home, after casting Oneself out into manifesting Infinite Realms of form and manifestation. Bon Voyage & lets don't forget to celebrate the ride back home. And lets never declare a stage as end-point that contains suffering. It only prolongs the way back home, until that illusion-mindset is also broken by suffering. Selling Water by the River She who is centered in the Tao can go where she wishes, without danger. She perceives the universal harmony, even amid great pain, because she has found peace in her heart. Only in being lived by the Tao can you be truly yourself. Approach it and there is no beginning; follow it and there is no end. You can’t know it, but you can be it, at ease in your own life. Just realize where you come from: this is the essence of wisdom - Tao Te Ching

Well, BazookaJesus is the most AWAKE, and Nobody is enlightened. Ok, enough kidding. Awakening: Basically, you can experience 95% of Nonduality/Mystical Experiences with a center/separate-self still not fully seen through/transcended. And that is what prevents fully realizing or Being Absolute Reality/Infinite Consciousness itself. You definitely can have Unity/Nonduality Experiences with some kind of separate-self (although often quite empty, ego/persona quite transcended) still well & alive. Full Enlightenment: When these last remnants of the separate self disfiguring True Nonduality (or ones True Nature of Infinite Reality itself) are seen through, transcended, suffering ends and grasping for experiences/insights/understandings end. Impersonal centerless Empty Boundless Eternal Infinite Consciousness/Reality. That which you and every being already is right now, can never not be, but are (maybe) not fully aware of. Semantic Challenge: Often Enlightenments and Awakenings are equated and/or confused. But most often, Enlightenment is considered an "end-state", an end of suffering. Understanding of relative stuff and exploration & the adventure of course can continue. But beyond Full Enlightenment there is only more relative stuff (form) to explore. The Absolute Reality has been understood or realized. Suffering is dramatically(!) reduced and the potential of Ones True Nature to fully end suffering is understood and takes over understanding/being what One really is is the hallmark of Full Enlightenment. More on the topic: And confusing Awakening and (Full) Enlightenment is confusing the road to more high-level-dreams (with some necessary illusion/ignorance/suffering) with the road to the Deep Identity Level Shift of Full Enlightenment, or the end of suffering. All has its time and place, and the point of the ride is the ride. But at some point, comming home is also wonderful. Beautiful Book: Coming Home: The Experience of Enlightenment in Sacred Traditions, Lex Hixon Bon Voyage Water by the River

There isn't one central authority governing the use of language pertaining to spirituality, so the words are used quite loosely and interchangeably by some, and for others enlightenment is ultimate while awakening may be an initial experience of spirituality. I tend to modify either term with "partially" or "fully" for clarity's sake. Then some people call a psychedelic experience as awakening. It may be an awakening, loosely speaking, but it doesn't mean it is a nondual awakening where you have permanently shifted into a state where you no longer experience "the center" (i.e. "I" is identified as the body or some bodily location, like point between your eyes.) After that state where you experience "the center" there are a bunch of intermediate states, where you progressively identify with local emptiness, universal emptiness, God/bliss, and ultimately all identification ceases and the subject-object duality is gone. You can call this full awakening or full enlightenment or whatever else you want. There are different names for this. Moksha, self-realization, sahaja samadhi, etc. (Of course, past that there is a period of years of integration, because personality habits have to unwind. A lot of shadow work takes place here.) So if you want a definition, enlightenment is the attainment of the "natural state" where conditioned notions of separateness are seen through and realization of The Absolute as the true reality is complete.

IT is available any time, and most of the time it is always there without doing anything. If the character gets annoying and tries to generate bad emotions via suffering (which has reduced tremendously anyway), "I" just look into it, see what "I" really am, what the "substance" of the character trying to close down/feel bad really is, and the bug is dead and transcended again. Goes from "oh, that is not good"-character-arising to a small voice somewhere in the background unable to grip attention, and the field again nondual and infinite without center. The arisings of the separate self just stop, don't get believed anymore, loose their hypnotic power, because it feels way better and the "choice" is there. Yet, my functional character works better than ever. Less filters, more intuition, much more bliss, love and compassion. What would it be worth if it wouldn't be always available? Its actually too good to be true, besides being true. @Arthogaan wrote that a bit more direct experience description is appreciated, which I understand. Which I don't often do, because here is already enough ego-bravado, so I tend to write more on the neutral and technical side. But at the same time, sometimes it is probably good to write a bit more about direct experience. Besides, when I write technical descriptions, I write it from own experience and understanding, and use the best sources I know to show how similiar the deep structure is over various systems and paths. Water by the River PS: And a more technical description, using an analogy: Before fully realizing what one really is (Impersonal Infinite Consciousness/Awareness/Nothingness without a second), one doesn't really know that 2 +2 is 4. One intuits maybe that it is more like 3,9 than 8,5. One intuits that it is eternal (always here), nondual, infinite, mere appearance (lets say thats 4.5). But its not fully impersonal, some individuality of being a separate "anything" (although already an aware nothing) being still there. Ones Deep Identity is not obviously fully it, because that Realization is still missing. Roger Thisdells Videos stage 4 and stage 5 are the best material I am aware of to describe that subtle (but absolutely deciding) difference. But once knowing ones True Nature (when it becomes really nondual, fully impersponal, yet at the same time really the Whole Reality), one knows exactly that 2 +2 is 4, always has been, always will be, and can't be different. There is no more doubt about. Couldn't be. Doubt is moving within Oneself, it doesn't make sense, one knows its structure as moving arising appearing (doubt-) thought. Reality is directly known and understood by BEING it. Infinite Consciousness/Reality understands/realizes its own essence/being. There is nothing else besides "it", and nothing else that is or could be aware. So it can only be known by being it, the boundless infinite nondual Totality. The first time realizing 2 + 2 is 4 is a direct and unmistakenable realization/experience into THAT which is (and was) always here and the case. The magic word is fully impersonal, fully empty, separate self fully transcended/dead/gone. That is the common denominator of all Full Enlightenment Experiences/Realization descriptions. They all use different surface language, that is the deep structure element in all of them. If that is missing, it is one of the preliminary Enlightenment/Awakening Experiences on the path leading to the Full Realization/Shift. And after knowing/realizing 2+2 is 4, that knowing is always available in case one gets sloppy and the character tries to create some confusion or suffering. I look into the character-arisings, see there Nature/Substance, which is the same unnameable Suchness of Everything, of Reality, and 2+2 is 4, the character bug is dead again, and doesn't cause suffering. So in that way, it is always available (it is and was there all along anyway), and one reorients the whole character to constantly stay in that. In Ken Wilbers Words: From Peak Experience to Plateau to Permanent (which holds for all transformation stages). But once 2 + 2 = 4 is known, then the separate self character just burns like ice in the desert. Maybe that is a bit helpful. PS PS: And of course, lets not forget, only @Bazooka Jesus is AWAKE. The ONE and ONLY.

Yes. Let me allow to hijack the post Beyond the "no-self" of no biographical self/ego self there are some more "encompassing" "higher" no-selfs. Or better said: Some stages of much more empty no-selves. First personality/biographical self/"ego" goes (1) then time goes: Always here Mind, time is just a concept (2) Then the locatedness of being in the body for example goes: one is the whole visual field, or beginning nonduality (3) then that becomes infinite. Anything that could appear appears in boundless Reality/Infinite Consciousness. (4) Then we have personality/egoless (1), timeless (2), boundless/nondual (3) and infinite (4). All of these are Awakenings/Enlightenments. But not the Full Enlightenment/Waking Up. But then there is even a murky no-self still there: It is nothing, totally empty, but still some individuality/separation still there, moving as I-thought/I-feeling on Reality/Oneself. This here: IN that state (1)+(2)+(3)+(4), when all last traces of individuality are seen moving within onself (that takes time), then the Big Bang or Waking Up or Full Enlightenment can happen, where one actually becomes Reality, no more questions left. And Infinite Absolute Reality/Infinite Consciousness/Nothingness can be described as (True) No-Self (since no individuality is left splitting Reality in two), or as Self (because all possible worlds appear in it). Then You ARE Absolute Reality (everything that shows or could ever appear, and all beings/perspectives), but no longer confuse a separate individual part for your true self. I have written about that before in previous posts, one can search for examle if one is so inclined for Basis Enlightenment in my posts. The problem quite often here on this forum, and with the effect of some of Leos teachings: Thinking one has realized No-Self, while one has NOT achieved True No Self, but some of the preliminary versions of No-Self (see above), boosted by psychedelics, and including a lot of higher realm stuff accessed with that. Nothing too bad with that, if it is just a step/stage, is just not the end of the story, and doesn't end suffering. Or worse: Not even having had the Awakenings (1)-(4), and just conceptually boosting the separate self and equating it with God/Reality. Problem of these stages: Instead of finally transcending/killing the separate self, these moves boost it. And most important: Only @Bazooka Jesus is awake. I mean, come on, that mother of declaration of AWAKE can not be topped, so I think that is something we can all agree on Selling Water by the River PS: To make it a bit more practical: Ever dreamt you were somebody/something completely different? Or dreamt of being just an empty camera not self-reflective at all, just watching, thinking and reflecting nothing? That is pretty near. Infinite Consciousness is totally empty, just aware. Can take any feeling/thinking of being anything, anyone, anybody. It is empty, impersonal, so that it is compatible to any mindstream. "IT" is already the Awareness of all Beings. YOU! Already. But not what you think you are. Only an empty Awareness can be in the perspectives/mindstreams of other beings/perspectives, not the "loaded" mindstream of a being that still feels separate (has ego-arisings the cause the illusion of being something specific/separate). Imagine being somebody/something completely different. An Alien. A cat. And YOU, your Awareness is still there. And nothing really is lost if such a shift were to happen. So nothing is lost, just the illusion that all the thinking/feeling brings, moves, in you. And besides this Awareness/Nothingness, nothing is, was, ever will be. THIS is also all appearances, Consciousness appearing as appearances, nondual. IT is Reality itself. And to fully get/understand that, ALL identity has to go. Impersonal, Fully Empty Awareness. Nondual and infinite, timeless, always here, never not possible being not here. Anything possible necessarily appearing in IT/YOU. And the True One/You are still there... Impersonal. Silent. Infinite. Aware. Timeless. Containing all appearances. Nothing besides it. One without a second. Reality itself.

Really Inspiring. Bon voyage on your path, that will walk itself soon enough all by itself, just following the bliss of its own essence. The Path showing itself to itself, after having won the grace of your True Nature. Some day, there will no one walking this path anymore. The path will become the unfolding of Infinite Reality itself. A Reality so wonderful expressing itself in every moment that no interference will ever be necessary again, or even possible again.... The states that can be achieved by meditation and energetic techniques are real and very powerful with enough practice. Most people get quite serious when they see that: The awakened states of for example infinite Nonduality, or Real Impersonal No-Self - Impersonal Infinite Consciousness Suchness, do have their impacts on the brainwaves, and for sure for the body-own Endo-Huasca-System producing a cocktail of body-endogenous Psychedelics: https://dmtquest.org/endohuasca-magic/ How else to explain the powerful infinite nondual awakened states achieveable by Psychedelics can be had with meditation and energetic practices, and which are so similiar to the Psychedelic experiences? Yes. Because it is a stage that has been earned by transformation and transcendence. States that have become permanent as stages. Going from states, to plateaus, to very permanent stages. And the remaining self doing these practices gets more and more refined. Pure. Impersonal. Empty. Transcendal. Not the remains of a separate ego/self, switched on and off by psychedelics, but never fully gone. The remains hindering the Full Realization in daily life, and are also projected on Infinite Consciousness during the trip, disfiguring its pure empty impersonal nature. So some lense always remain that prevent the final deep shift of Full Enlightenment. Ken Wilber: "The downside comes with people that only use psychedelics or drugs. And I found that over the years they just become mean it's somehow I just kind of closes them down. Its like you keep doing it and you keep doing it you keep doing and it doesn't quite cause the transformation. It can cause a peak experience but generally not a transformative experience and some people like David Deida will say that in order for altered changes of state to contribute to transformationpermit transformation it has to be basically endogenous not exogenous. It has to be has your own source. The people that do use both [psychedelics and meditation] and use it as a sacrament I think an enormous bit out of it. " Anybody ever wondered why that is? That Spirit/Infinite Reality prevents the crossing over through the Gateless Gate to Full Enlightenment if the soul is not purified enough, the separate-self/ego-illusion emptied out and transcended completely, all deaths died, all illusions gone? Maybe it is not a bug, but a deep deep feature? If we admit Infinite Intelligence to Infinite Reality, maybe Infinite Reality demands and requires giving up and transcending certain last subtle lenses also, letting the Illusion of separation fully die? And a high degree of compassion and some kind of Boddhisattva-vow? Because Infinite Reality itself IS Love? A fundamental archetype of manifestation, of essence? Sounds familiar and resonates? This combination of Transcendence and love is a deep structure of all spiritual systems of all ages. Sri Nisargadatta Maharaj — 'Love says 'I am everything.' Wisdom says 'I am nothing.' Between the two, my life flows.' Water by the River

True. I think you would like the Mahamudra-system a lot. Yoga of One Taste is the Neti Neti path to its end, Yoga of Nonmeditation throws away each and any effort and reamaining separte-self doing anything: One just rests in nondual state that one knows very well then, and waits for the grace of crossing over. Gateless Gate. "One can do NOTHING here to cross over to Full Enlightenment/Basis Enlightenment. Because that would be an act of a separate self. An effort. A movement of a separate self WANTING something, manipulating the mindstream, grasping for the understanding, doing something.... One can only automize the meditation/mindfullness, staying fully present, letting the Awakened Impersonal Awareness flow by itself, let IT do the meditation itself, get out of the way... Bringing out the full force of this Utterly Impersonal Awakened Awareness. Ones True Identity. And that is the last contra-intuitive trap: ONE CAN'T FORCE IT ("artifical activity"). Because forcing it would be a separate self arising doing it. One can try to force it (for example Koan-style), but then the Crossing Over normally happens in a moment of grace, of relaxation, when artificial activity is not present." Selling Water by the River

ok, here comes the take of yours truly. Warning: Bumpy conceptual ride ahead! All of them: concepts, used with differing meaning in different concepts. Not any kind of Absolute Truth, but concepts appearing in IT. Below is the take of yours truly on the most common usage. Void: Anything from a state (causal, void state) to Ultimate Reality. But is better used as a state description Truth: Normally pointer to Absolute Reality. Absolute Reality: Same. Absolute Solipsism: Trying to think ones way via conceptual thinking to the Absolute Reality which is infinite, and which can mostly only be described in negative terms, since any positive description would limit it. Doing the Universal Mind/Infinite Consciousness thing of Huang-Po (see last post) is ok. But confusing this Impersonal Infinite Consciousness with a mind-stream that is not fully awakened, aka where a separate self confuses itself with Ultimate Reality, is, uh, not so smart. Biggest Problem: Proponents of that normally don't have awakened/enlightened states in daily life. Biggest Risk: Narcicissm, not Ego-death but Cosmic-Ego. Identifying separate self or any kind of identity/self with Totality. Usefulness for the Path to the Mountain Summit/Nothingness/Absolute: Shooting ones knee with a gun and then trying to start walking and proclaiming how fast one got already on the mountain summit while limping in the valley Alien Consciousness: Some understanding on the form/manifestation side of Infinite Consciousness, albeit much more than a human is capable off in non-tripping-states, on a very high level. Better yet, ask the creator of that concept. Yours truly has no intelectual ownership on it. Danger: Proclaiming that as more important than Full Enlightenment, or letting go of the separate-self illusions that cover ones Deep Identity as Impersonal Nothingness/Infinite Consciousness/Absolute Reality, in which every appearance/thougt/self-concept-arising can only arise as Illusion/Dream/Mirage. Leads apparently to chasing the next Awakening, n+1. And not being quite happy on a permanent basis. God Realization anything from Full Enlightenment to a tool to bash any form of Awakening/Enlightenment one doesn't like. Depens on the usage and author using that term. For the bashing-anything-else-version of it, clear definitions are usually not given. Could sound like Full Enlightenment if really spelled out explicitely. No-Self tricky term. In its highest meaning: the final death/transcedence of each and any separate self arising. True No-Self. can be also be used for anything from no-Ego, no-Person, like opaque witness or transparent witness. should only be used for Pure Impersonal Nothingness/Impersonal Infinite Consciousness to avoid confusions. The most interesting conept/pointer would be Full Enlightenment. For that, see my last posts. Selling Water by the River

Thank you. I hesitated to link that quote of approval Leo has given to the Supreme Source/Kulayarāja Tantra. Leo will probably never approve anything like that ever again. On the other side, considering the current trip and bashing since then, he wouldn't do anyway. But who knows... Lets see if some reasons come across for downplaying Full Enlightenment vs. "God-Realization" Leo-style. I just fear he is racking up lots of bad Karma. And at the end of the day every being just wants a happy & blissful life. Like every being, by definition. Everything else is fooling ourselves. And bad Karma can prevent that happy and blissful life . For him and his followers. Such is the Intelligence of the Universe and Maya. But the game/Lila needs its heroes. And there are also Tragic Heroes. And heroes go into dragon-land: Hic sunt dracones. Hic sunt Aliens. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tragic_hero Nothing new under the sun... Water by the River PS: Although my view is higher than the sky, My respect for the cause and effect of actions is as fine as grains of flour. – Padmasambhava “Guru Rinpoche”. That is the quote I orient my life on a relative level on. A deal with the Universe, so to say. And it has served me very very well. Like in "wouldn't have believed how well" 10 years ago, what can be possible. But that is another story I won't tell for the foreseeable future. Nobody, even the Enlightened Ones, are above the law of Karma. It is the nature of such a coherent dream/Universe of ours. Just the emotional/suffering severity of the impact varies. And the not stable enlightened ones, and not enlightened ones, are in the merciless claws of Samsara. And that is why the quote above is of paramount importance.

@Leo Gura Oh, there are and were plenty who did understand exactly that.... It is called Full Enlightenment. How many books did you read on Buddhism/from Buddhism? Which traditions? And to make such a statement "no Buddhist comprehends": Do you know all Buddhists personally? Why not say no Buddhist I know comprehends this.... And did the Supreme Source got declassified as a description of God Realization (Link below) in the meantime by the n+1 next Awakening? And if so, how and why? Just a humble question, I am really curious. Supreme Source/Kulayarāja Tantra https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kulayarāja_Tantra That is one of the "bibles" of Dozgchen. Like, many many many aficinados of that text in Tibet & realized beings in the past. "According to the Tibetologist David Germano, the Kunjed Gyalpo "is the main canonical work of the Great Perfection [Dzogchen] as it emerges from the "dark period" (850 to 1000 C. E.)" And on Buddhism: Which fully enlightened being in his right mind having walked a Buddhist Path to Full Enlightenment would consider himself as "Buddhist"? And like, really believe it? Like "I" am a Buddhist .There probably umteenth different systems to Enlightenment at many Alien-species in the Universe with its billions of planets... And which Buddhist Full Enlightened Realizer would see Buddhism NOT as a dream? Not a single one, see below. For example, check 3 Pillars of Zen, Kapleau, dialogue Harada to Yaeko: Yaeko, [newly fully enlightened] I simply can’t understand why I always made such a to-do about respecting Buddhism or anyone who had attained full enlightenment. Have I been dreaming? Harada Roshi: Dreaming? Certainly. Yet as dreams go in this world it is not the commonplace dream of most but a dream of tremendous and lasting significance, of intense absorption in the Buddha’s Dharma. And once fully enlightened, often byebye monastery & Buddhism orthodoxy, see below: "When my master realized the complete extinction of the dualistic mind, his life changed radically. In order to avoid problems with the authorities, as he was certain they would not understand, he left his monastery and retreated to a hermitage, where only a few disciples could find him. I too went to visit him in that wild place. At that time I had not yet received this teaching so I was surprised by his behaviour, but I was not outraged because my faith in him was absolute. I noticed my master did not do any more formal practice and did not even bestow the initiations to which we were accustomed. He continued to give teachings of various kinds, according to his disciples' capacities, however in a style that was much simpler than before. Moreover, on specific occasions he also performed rituals for his disciples but his actions were new and I did not know their meaning. One fine day I decided to ask the master what his spiritual practice was. He remained silent, perfectly still, staring into my eyes. Under the influence of his silence, I too became silent and entered, for a moment, into a limpid, non-conceptual state. After a while, I heard the master say that that was the direct transmission of the sacred wordless revelation, the teaching beyond scriptures and symbols. " Mahämudrä and Atiyoga, Giuseppe Baroetto Lovely book by the way... And on Buddhism as system to Enlightenment, an analogy: If the ideal of Christianity is the Saint... How much Saints did it produce? Quite some. But compared to the Totality of believers, next to none. Horrible and hilariously low success rate. Does Christianity have paths that end up with Sainthood if fully walked? Yes. How many walk the path? See above. If the ideal of Buddhism is the Fully Enlightened Realizer... How much Fully Enlightened did it produce? Quite some. But compared to the Totality of believers/practitioners, next to none. Horrible and hilariously low success rate. Does Buddhism have paths that end up with Full Enlightenmentif fully walked? Yes. How many walk the path? See above. So is it justified to bash complete Buddhism? Why don't you make some nice definitions of what God-Realization is according to your definition, and why that is higher than FULL Enlightenment? With emphazis on FULL Enlightenment, in which each and every and possible appearance/arising/separate-self anything is seen as mere appearance/manifestation/illusion/dream IN THAT (One without a second, Absolute, Nothingness), and each and every backgroundstory (history, others, past, spiritual system, separate self-arising, ANYTHING) is seen as dream/mirage/illusion? As dream/mirage/illusion arising here and now, its essence being Nothingness. Not the partial Enlightenments, which are probably 50 times more common than the real thing. In the partial Enlightenments, of course there is still the background-BS-story still active, because the separate-self (even the empty and unity/nondual version of it) still dreams its dream? A more lucid dream, but not woken up yet? The constant similiarity between all FULL Enlightenment descriptions is: ALL is dream, ALL is Lila, ALL is Illusion/mirage, All is show. Lila= Absolute/God/Reality fooling itself to play a little game... And not only ALL of it is a Dream/Fooling oneself, ANY possible n+1 form/arising can only be dreaming/fooling oneself. How can God Realization go "deeper" in understanding the illusion of "how God fools itself" than Full Enligthenment, if in Full Enlightenment each and any concept/feeling-arising, especially deep ones of the separate-anything-self, are seen as fooling oneself? Like in, any possible form at all, n+1? I mean, we can postpone that discussion until your Course is done & sold. But at some point it would be really nice to have some substantial feedback on that. And "can't be put into words" doesn't count, Full Enlightenment can also not be put into words. Yet very good pointers can be used, if done so in a smart way. And the concepts/talking can be done up to a quite high altitude of the mountain, shortly below the summit. If done skillfully, and investing the effort. At least, give it a try. And if you say that can only be understood after umpteenth trips on 5 MeO or whatever... I just would like to ask the reader to watch these three videos, and ask himself in which state he would like to be (and feel) himself? And maybe end up? It is wise to choose ones teachers on how they feel and how happy they are, because one could feel the same after walking their path for 5 years... (and by the way: How can one be gaslit when all is a dream arising in Suchness?) or Not that Adi Da didn't f*** up as Cult-Leader in the words of Ken Wilber (more comments on Adi Da here): Anyway, no disrespect! I highly value your endeavours up until around the Solipsism Video/Infinity of Gods.... Then it looked like some remains of some identity/separate self were projected on Infinite Absolute Reality/Nothingness, and you didn't get the bliss & love of stable Realization of Impersonal Infinite Consciousness in daily life. but got fascinated by relative/form/manifested-stuff, of the Alien version and the like. The searching for the camera to capture Alien god because the ones available couldn't capture it.... was a bit worrisome. I really got worried about you. But still, what counts is the spirit and motivation, and everything before the videos mentioned above was worthy of a true pioneer in these unchartered territories. In that sense, I am looking forward to an answer from you, preferably of the cool, substantiated and a bit elaborate kind. Doesn't need to be now. If you need to make up your mind about these topics, and if takes months or longer, no problem. Fine with me. Thank you, and Namaste! Water by the River

Actually, one normally needs to take the meditation off the meditation pillow into daily life, staying fully awake while the mindstream is doing its thing and is still on in daily life. Only this way, off the pillow and in daily life, one gets the momentum of 1000s of hours of meditation of transcending ones separate self (at least for normies and other not so gifted people, like yours truly) to make it to awakened nondual states. And these 1000s of hours when taken off the pillow into daily life are then really nice, no chore. The really MAGIC POINT when you manage to take the mindfulness of staying "on top" of the mindstream, cutting it off if you want to, and off the meditation pillow into living daily life from that. From there on, its downhill, and gets better and better... bliss and love starts flowing. To do that, one needs the right system that can do that (taking meditation off the pillow). Not all (actually quite few, including Mahamudra) have efficient methods for doing that. If they have methods for doing that at all. and a few 100 hours (I would guess in average) on the pillow to get to that point. If somebody says one doesn't need these several 1000 hours (because he/she didn't need that), that person could surely qualifies to coach others that also don't need these 1000s of hours... . And for sure, there are people that don't need these 1000s of hours. Although, probably not that many, considering how much is meditated, and few wake up... But how does one know how much transcendence/hours one needs to get the awakened states, before actually being there? And if a system that worked at less than 1000s hours necessary works on oneself? Right, one doesn't... Often most endearing are the folks that needed very little practice (or anything of practice at all) to wake up, or next to none meditation: Hey, won the lottery, great. But how many win the lottery? Sure one got a lottery-winner canidate as coachee? Hey you, are you one, will ya?? The minor nuiances of life... Also awesome and funny are some Zen/Theravada-systems and the like, that teach "bone-breaking" methods of boring meditation that lead nowhere without really Uber-human-willpower of enduring ones monkey-mind, boredom, and failing meditation and lacking lovely states.... Like in, Die on the pillow! Yes darling, but how about killing me softly with actually an efficient meditation system where I can see my progress, and actually start feeling better quite soon? And where I don't get beaten with the Keisaku if I actually ask a technical question on my meditation method that makes sense? For example here, here is description on these awakened nondual states: And below is a link to a short summary (considering the 600 pages of the book) of the Mahamudra-Path of Tibetan Buddhism using the Pointing Out the Great Way System/Book of Daniel Brown, with focus on Stage 3 "Yoga of One Taste" and Stage 4 "Nonmeditation Yoga", but also Stages 1 and 2 (the stuff done on the pillow to get to the magic point): And these states are your jumping board to get finally rid of the separate self, crossing over to Full Enlightenment, fully coming home, as also described in the link. Nonmeditation Yoga of the Mahamudra System. For example. Bon Voyage! Selling Water by the River PS: Did I ever tell I get royalties on every Pointing Out the Great Way book recommended being bought uhhhh, just kidding . Neither related nor affiliated, just read all the books from the lovely author (sadly departed, Daniel Brown was a real hero. Cardozzo: Enlightened Renaissance Man), and quite a lot other stuff on Mahamudra/Dzogchen, and much of what else lives&crawls out there... PS PS: And no, I am no monk- or monastery Aficionado, although I deeply respect this folk. Cardozza coined the term Enlightened Renaissance Man, which yours truy has shamelessly hijacked in his usual style elaborated on and recoined as politically nearly correct Renaissance-Man (male female diverse alien ... n+1 ) -Nondual-Realizer, and went on rambling about in:

Hi Davecraw, in the humble experience of yours truly, you can not rule out with logic if something else besides experience exists until certain Awakened States are realized that show the infinite and limitless nature of the Visual Field, and any other possible field/dimension (like the dimensionless opening/dimension in which subtle objects like thoughts arise). But: One can (and should) use logic to get to an agnostic level: NOTHING prooves that there is a material, external, self-existing world beyond the bubble of the visual field, beyond experiences. You can neither proove nor disproove that with logic. That is a fine point, because arguing WITH logic that only experience exists is one bridge too far. Can't be done. One would need to twist logic to proove that. Although certain very active gentlemens are giving it very extended tries at the moment. Prooving that only experience exists (and no self-existing external material world) can only be done with Awakened States that show the following properties of an Awakened Field of Awareness (below, the goal/outcome of Yoga of one Taste, stage 3 Mahamudra. One Taste = Nondual Union with the Infinite Field) any felt separation between "you" and the "external world" appearing in the visual field is vividly felt first as arising object of subject-object separation, a felt sensation, that then gradually disappears. Including all localization in the body (tension head, body-feelings that cause localization, and so on). Yoga of Illusory Body for example, there are discrete energetic practices to dissolve these contractions/localizations. Or just wait long enough in empty states.... so, union,"nondual" with the field. any "boundary" to anything limiting that visual field (or any other field) can only be an arising, an appearance. Not the boundless limitless infinite Nothingness. time, past and future is seen as mere concepts/ideas/arisings in the timeless Always Here Mind of Infinite Awakened Awareness/Infinite Consciousness. everything in the visual field is just appearance, "hovering" as pretty lucid display in mere Nothingness. -> mere apperance these states bring a lot of bliss and love It happens approximately in that order progressively with good meditation practice. Or, if you are lucky, all by itself (Karma,state). But then good luck telling anybody of the structure of the path to get there that one didn't even notice the path while one passed it, because they flew over it. Or: Ramana and all the other Wunderkinder/prodigies probably won't be able to tell you much details about the turns, wrong exits and scenic views on the road to Awakening, because they took the 747 to the destination. and the Zen and Theravada path tend also tend to not give a very detailed map (at least in the opinion of yours truly), but just a compass and say: go/meditate west, to the west is California & the Ocean. Mahamudra gives you a quite detailed map: Death Valley is here, you wanna go there, don't take the wrong exit, don't camp here, here are the gentlemen with bows&arrows, and so on... So, to get these states: (good efficient) meditation, or psychedelics. Then, counting together the awakenings above in bold letters, it becomes what is called in Mahamudra "boundless limitless timeless nondual loving Awakened Awareness". And THEN you can talk about "there is only experience, anywhere, everywhere", without needing to fool yourself with logic in the nature of your experience. And btw., that is not theory or wishful thinking, but my actual experience with a meditation system of Mahamudra (Tibetan Buddhism, "companion"-system of Dzogchen) described best in Pointing Out the Great Way, Daniel Brown , developing over quite some years. All of the above is the of and up to Yoga of One Taste (3. Stage Mahamdura). Ken Wilbers Diary Book has the titel "One Taste". The same One Taste of that practice, refering to it. One Taste: Daily Reflections on Integral Spirituality, Wilber. The outcome of Yoga of One Taste (3. Stage Mahamdura) gives one a shot (or many many, since many many are neede) to dissolve the last separate self-arisings remnants (the Yoga of Nonmeditation stage 4 Mahamudra), which then brings Full/Complete Enlightenment, in Leos terms God-Realization (although i find that term a bit bombastic, although technically precise if God is Ultimate EMPTY IMPERSONAL Infinite Reality) . Yoga of Nonmeditation dissolves the last remnants of a separate self moving in oneself/Infinite Reality, like awareness of being, awareness of self, any self-reflective arising of being anything. (hint: of= subject object, not full nondual. Still self-reflective thinking/identity creation). What remains is: Reality. The Totality. And zero separation, real Nonduality. Empty. Impersonal. Pure Infinite Consciousness. Staying as "always eternally here" Infinite Impersonal Nothingness. With Awareness as its essence. Yoga of Nonmeditation does this in that any meditation is so fully automized that there are no more separate self arisings doing the meditation to generate and stabilize the Awakened States of Yoga of One Taste, 3. Stage Mahamudra. Not that actually an illusion separate-self claims "Oh I am doing this nondual meditation so great". Would be a funny contradiction of Nothingness would be really pure impersonal Infinite Consciousness if something like that arises, hm? And that takes also a lot of time. Don't fry your brains too much trying to these maybe 500h-1000h+ with 5 MeO (depending of course on ones Karma/brain and body), because yours truly has never read/heard about a credible case where that has been done. Although they could exist. Volunteers for the fried brains, anybody? Joke: How do you spot a pioneer? Got a few fried brain cells arrows in the back. Just kidding. We do need that tested out. And how Psychedelic Paths combined with meditation systems above... Pure Mahamudra is too slow to have larger impact. Allthough still the best system (in the opinion of yours truly) of all of them, and then, good morning after waking up, game over, welcome home! And be nice to "enlighened persons", What is mostly being done with meditation and especially psychedelics, is dabbling around up to and around stage 3, Nonduality (Yoga of One Taste), with are more or less empty subject, up to a very empty witness already in union with then Nondual Infinite Field. "Having" Awakenings. With any kind of content: This World, Aliens, the management & staff running this Universe, other Dimensions, whatever ones heart delights in. An Infinity (literally) of stuff to explore... What is not so often talked about is the "suicide" of stage 4, Nonmeditation Yoga, Full Enlightenment. Getting fully Impersonal with transcending/killing each and every separate-self arising having all these lovely nondual experiences/awakenings. No Aliens required, but still possibly quite a bit scary for sure. But looks only scary from before the Gateless Gate. Any separate self arising (the enlightened or awake "person" having these awakenings, n+1) raising its ugly head, are seen as just more separate-self-contractions buzzing in Ones True Self. Another annoying little headache-bug to laugh about. Another moskito buzzing around in the Infinite Reality that one then realizes onself to be and ever having been, to squatt/Trekchö. One more contraction to let go and transcend. and one lucky day, one just wakes up. But death is death, transcendence is death, even if its only the death of an Illusion. And Maya needs her tools, like the Wizard of Oz, else everbody would just say bye bye to the game. [Disclaimer: In nearly all cases, real suicide is about the most stupid thing one can do. Back to square 1, more Karma added on top. Or how to continue the dream, dodging out ones Karma of this life, with additional Karma on top from hitting the reset-button. But no soul gets lost, just do 3rd grade again, with a headache-hangover from the last try. Finally, every soul graduates college. But some like school so much that they don't listen to most teachers, and do some classes over and over again]. So, have fun on the trip, don't fry your brains, keep your humor (Wilber, Transcendence restors humor), squatt all separate self bugs, and Bon Voyage! Selling Water by the River Ken Wilber wrote: “TRANSCENDENCE RESTORES HUMOR. Spirit restores humor. Suddenly smiling returns. Too many representatives of too many movements – even many very good movements, such as feminism, environmentalism, meditation, spiritual studies – seem to lack humor altogether. In other words, they lack lightness, they lack a distance from themselves, a distance from the ego and its grim game of forcing others to conform to its contours... They should all trade two pounds of ego for one ounce of laughter”(Ken Wilber. 1999. One Taste: The Journals of Ken Wilber. December 7). PS: And for all other beings/perspectives of Indras Net, see: and if you don't already have an overkill, and better go for nice walk or so... Some more for the Aficionados of conceptual overkill: And now, really better go fishing or something... “frog pond plop”

"A quote i read in Leo's blog: The God-Self is not found as a point inside your skull behind your eyes. The God-Self is your entire field of perception. Stop turning your attention inside your skull, rather, put your attention on the entire bubble that is your visual field. That is God! Stop looking for God inside your head or outside your visual field. What is meant by put your attention on the entire bubble that is your visual field like what bubble?" Yes to Mokshas statement Basically confusing God/Absolute with the manifested side of Infinite Consciousness, In case Leo uses the concept/pointer God for Absolute, then the statement above is wrong (or at least incomplete, but tending on the wrong side). If God is used for the manifested side of Infinite Consciousness, it is correct. I leave it up for the reader to decide if the psychdelic path so far made the author of the lines/quote above (its separate self) fully impersonal/fully empty/fully transcended/Nothingness, and really NONDUAL Nothingness/Emptiness being one with every form, or if some lenses/filters are still declaring aspects of the manifested side of Infinite Consciousness as Absolute(s), like separate-self lenses being aware OF any God/Alien/Totality/Infinity of Gods/Bubble visual field) any manifested side of consciousness. Even Absolutes in the Plural form were declared. An oxymoron, if there is any. Nice book on the topic on Awakening/Enlightenment into the manifested side of Infinite Consciousness (partial Enlightenment) and the Full Enlightenment into the unmanifested/fully impersonal/fully empty/Nothingness Side of Infinite Consciousness and the integration of that with the Awakening into the manifested side of Infinite Consciousness is Szyper, Infinite Consciousness That book alone could clear up where the path up the mountain-summit took a little detour with a downwards-slope.... and once the course is reversed, the altimeter-reading begins climbing again, Pointing out the Great Way, Brown, if applied correctly, could boost the ascend like a Falcon 9 rocket, as long as enough good Karma/rocket-fuel is still remaining.... Bon voyage! Selling Water by the River

No, don't think so. He is a genius of sorts, who drove the car up the psychedelic path to as close to the mountain peak as possible, pushing many gas-loads of 5 MeO in the tank. Maybe at some point the engine got a little bit- uhhhh- busted, but no risk no fun. And he seems to be doing fine nowadays. Thank GOD! He saw 95% plus of the Mountain Peak already. That consequently ended up first with the Solipsism-video, and later Infinity of Gods-video. Which is exactly how Infinity seen from separate self remains should look like: An Infinity of Gods. True, but partial, not the end of the story. And some confusions (separate self-elements still projected on Absolute Reality&trip) still well and alive. But nearly up K2, altitude-wise already pretty much in the death-zone, sorts off. Long enough up there, and the separate-self.... Then he also took a little detour to visit the Aliens, which in my humble opinion is just exploring more relative stuff, meandering a path of the mountain on the altitude of Infinity of Gods, or a little bit below. Its a bit sad that the camera didn't capture the pic of the Alien, would have been a lovely picture for the family album. Then he confused the frequent Buddhist half-way-up-the-mountain Enlightenment (so common for example in Buddhism, but everywhere else also) with the full thing, where the half-way-up-the-mountain-scenic drive declares having realized/"seen" Emptiness or Nothingness and being aware of that as final Enlightenment (happens pretty much to everyone, see 3 Pillars of Zen for example, in which still a subtle separate self/transparent nondual witness with some individuality/lenses/separation still active), confusing the being aware OF it with actually becoming that Nothingness as a Deep Identity - or all lenses/filters/identities/separate-self building blocks gone. So no more OF, and nothing that could even think/say OF. The full nondual empty impersonal "thing". The Illusion of the self-contraction dead, gone, finished. Thank God. He intuited correctly the absolutely deep, complex, marvelous and ingenious divine illusion-show-mechanisms (ranging the whole height of the mountain, until its very top) of how "God"/most of Indras Net fools himself and every other sentient being still believing to be separate, and called the understanding of that God-Realization. True, but partial, as long as any separate self still lense/bias still lives and crawls in the Opening of Reality. Because that remaining separate-self-bug IS the Illusion. And compared that to the shallow half-way-up-the-mountain-Enlightenment described above, or the Identity with the manifested mere apperance side of Infinite Consciousness (the halfway-up-the-mountain), with a subtle separate self still alive (see Szyper, Infinite Consiousness for that). These halfway-up-the-mountain-Enlightenment "enlightened" cases are of course still living in the dream, although a bit closer to the mountain summit. and of course having an understanding of how it all can be full/total illusion, Indras Net perfectly fooling itself, is worth a lot compared to any lucid dream of a halfway-up-the-mountain-enlightenment. Because that understanding has a built in FURTHER! And not basking in the sun of the halfway-up-the-mountain resort. What he doesn't yet see , but what I assume he begins to realize, is that once something like Basis Enlightenment (or Full Enlightenment, see link below) can happen, where each and every arising (internal mindstream arising including I-thoughts/I-feeling/or any separate-self building block, AND any external arising (world, visual field) is clearly seen as arising in the Infinite always here Nothingness of Infinite Reality, ones true being, that there is just nothing left that could not be considered as mirage/illusion/show. So the same "God"-Realization, but permanent and full, killing each and every separte self illusion bug. Or smacking it immediately when a bug is left in the shadow, as soon as it crawls out again. And without transfering/projecting any remaining separate-self elements on Infinite Reality. Yours truly admits that it is very difficult to see the gold in the spiritual field (Full Enlightenment, or seeing that any possible arising, n+1, now or in future (including everything of oneself, making oneself fully Nothingness), is just an Illusion, vs. the truckloads of proponents of the Halfway-Up-the-Mountain-Resort-"Enlightenment"-Dream. And that most Awakenings/Enlightenments in the Marketplace (though they are valid Awakenings) are not the final endpoint of the summit. But just the dream becoming more lucid, and its proponent are thinking its already at the peak of the mountain, standing on the little brother peak of the absolute peak, And Maya smilingly holding the shield pointing to that path, stating "Absolute Summit" and guiding the visitor cars to that beautiful resort. And smiling lovingly... or: We are that reality. When you understand this, you see that you are nothing, and being nothing, you are everything. That is all. - Kalu Rinpoche Now, there is realistic chance that he will see the sign of the path of the transcendence-path of added meditation (combined with psychedelics) and killing every single last separate-self-arisings-bug to get fully empty, and with that fully everything. The Real Deep Identity that we all share: We are that reality. When you understand this, you see that you are nothing, and being nothing, you are everything. That is all. Kalu Rinpoche The One without a second. Sorry for the repetition. He even wrote recently he has done three hours of meditation, and he refrains a bit from moderating the Spirituality-section of the forum. I previously wrote, the Solipsism-Gladiators are doing quite a show here, of which he has a hard time either approving or disapproving- understandably. Both options are not really good. The path forward: transcend the problem which can't be solved on its own level, step one level higher, and give the right perspective/context on each partial truth of the past, integrating them all into a coherent picture of larger and more encompassing truths, and live happily ever after. And while one is at it, kudos to Ken Wilber for developing such a nice integral framework that provides space&room for all perspectives, (partial-)truths and experiences. No need to have a separate-self-bug arisings that says all wrong/evil, but enough space for the whole Net of Indra. Only One Truth is absolute, all others are either partial and true, or complete & false. And nobody is smart enough to be wrong all the time. Everything contains at least partial truths.... But hey, I am engaging of tabloid press interpreting of the behaviour of the royals, like in UK & Windsor Castle.... . But despite all of that, I try to stay on the lighter and benevolent side of it all... And I agree with Bazooka Jesus, the royals they have in UK are really boring compared to the happenings in our lovely realm: What kind of great and interesting rank and file, governance and royalty. Sorry, of course the other way round. Royalty, governance and rank and file. But honestly! So that would be the 50ct from yours truly on this hell of a show. Maybe even the roalties can grant the lowly rank and file with there presence and maybe even a comment? If not, and still being busy sorting out the thing, that is of course also completely fine. Take your time. The gladiators at the moment fighting the battle in a way that not too many sentient beings with potential will get their Karma damanged, but are delivering and awesome show. And, you know, yours truly got quite robust over the years in viewing every comment arising in "its" visual field as just more illusion-arising, so there is no hang-over from selling crap at the outside or something like that. ItsALLGOODMAN. And in case the Royalty feels intruded by yours truly invading the privacy of the head of state, please issue an verdict, and yours truly will readily revoke, repent, remorse and so on... I wish him good luck on his path, and godspeed, from all my heart! Water by the River @Sincerity Hope the stylistic tone & content of the post is benevolent and respectful enough. Yours truly really tried! If doesn't find the approval of the guardians of the realm, please let me know.

For the topic of Salvijus and Breakingthewall: Causal States vs. states of void/formlessness and totality of manifestation (Whiteout,Infinity) at any time (low causal). Yours truly is a bit an "Integration aficionado" of different systems, just to get to the deep structures of the different paths up the mountain. Wilbers High Causal is the Abyss of Absolute Nothingness, Cessation, Nirvikalpa. The passing of that often enough opens the door for getting empty enough to maintain constant Nondual Realization in daily life. Or to directly intuit the essence of any manifestation, Nothingness, Infinite Reality. Wilbers Low Causal: The Totality of manifestation (Whiteout,Infinity) at any time (low causal). @Breakingthewall, what the void-state that you describe is I can't tell based just based on your description. It doesn't sound like a black-out like Cessation, doesn't have its effects, and doesn't fit the ladder described above. But the pool of causal states is wide... Descriptions of cessation one can find at Ingram, Thisdell and Frank Yang. Wilber also describes the Whiteout somewhere else, but I don't have that in my files/notes. Here are some quotes and perspectives from Ken Wilbers system on the topic. Wilber normally provides a very good Ontology. Maybe you find that interesting. My personal perspective is on one of my last posts on causal states, which I don't want to repeat here. Excerpt 1: And from Wilber - Sex,Ecology, Spirituality: And what is also very useful: Wilber, Waves, streams, states, and self: An outline of an integral psychology. And Wilber, Religion of the Future. And what both of you probably will really like is Halaw, God is Nothingness, and Wolinsky, "The End of the Game - Deconstructing the Portals to the Absolute". On both books I have written something in this thread: The High Causal States are always easy to spot in descriptions. Passing through these fully empty and impersonal states is in many systems the opening gate to entering the stages Nondual Realization, because states are known where the separate self and any form of Duality just is not. The Nondual Realization/Full Enlightenment (NOT only the Unity with the Visual Field), but also the Impersonal Emptiness of the High Causal States integrated are also easy to spot in any description/system We are that reality. When you understand this, you see that you are nothing, and being nothing, you are everything. That is all. Kalu Rinpoche Anything from subtle states to low causal states can be quite a Jungle in systems/descriptions which is to be expected, because here the infinite manifestation begins. not only the dimensions/realties experienced can vary, but the interpretation varies with the conceptual system the subject travels... And: Hic sunt dracones Aliens Maybe that is interesting & useful for you. Wilbers ontological system worked very well for me to orient myself in often very differing systems/descriptions. See for example Lex Hixon, Coming Home. The Experience of Enlightenment in Sacred Traditions. The variety of the description of paths and states is vast, and the universal deep structures often hard to spot. Selling Water by the River

Do you realize that you have not answered a single one of my questions, that I have asked very specifically (1-4)? Is it a challenge of reading comprehension, or ist it just easier to avoid my questions? Maybe try again? But hey, if you don't have the courtesy to carefully read what I asked, and specifically only answer what is asked in the questions and not something else, please feel free to continue serving as an example of trying to conceptually think ones way to Awakening/Enlightenment via "Conceptual Absolute Solipsism" using (admittedly) one of the best conceptual descriptions of Awakening (not Full Enlightenment) done so far, those by Leo. trying to promote these concepts with evangelical passion towards the "others" to be saved and (now its a win-win ): continuing blaming "others" for being to ignorant/biased/not open/whatever/n+1 in an aggresive way, showing the degree of ego-transcendence and peace achieved, or at least toning down the aggresiveness and using nicer language (no more Liars, Raper, Fools, and the like), less [!!!] and less shouting via CAPITAL LETTERS). And while doing that, keeping ones aggression in check, because that will always find its way into the text written. and doing all of that, showing wether "Conceptual Absolute Solipsism" really is a path up the mountain peak or into the valley below. A bit off-topic: An interesting research question would be: Is there some kind of threshold where "Conceptual Absolute Solipsism Preaching" would get really dangerous? Dangerous like doing the promoting of "Conceptual Absolute Solipsism Preaching" at such a smart "intellectual flight level" where it gets really dangerous of seducing those that are themself smart&disciplined enough to reach the mountain summit with good teachings/practices? while at the same time not being at a smartness-flightlevel high enough to understand that "Conceptual Absolute Solipsism Preaching" trying to think ones way to Enlightenment (instead of practicing/meditating) is exactly not the path to the mountain peak of empty/ impersonal/ nonceptual Awakening/Enlightenment, but down to the valley where Maya smilingly waits with Solipsism, Narcicissm and the self-grandiosity of saving "others"? Lets see if the upcoming preachers of that religion will help clarifying that research question. My personal guess is: No, it can't get dangerous, and the Eros/Growth towards complexity of the Kosmos is larger than the ignorance and illusion Maya generates. But I don't know. But what I am convinced of: On a relative level, the Narcicissm and the self-grandiosity (going up to God- and Messiah-complex like behaviour) can destroy the life of quite many preaching that religion. And that is why yours truly "fights" this "Conceptual Absolute Solipsism Preaching". Of course tongue in cheek, not taking the show as anything more than just one of the many spectacular displays of Maya. As always, Bon Voyage.... Yours Truly Selling Water by the River PS: And Razard, sorry, it is not personal. I agree with the last post of Breakingthewall, and really wish you a Bon Voyage and all the best. But the path of "Conceptual Absolute Solipsism Preaching" you promote (instead of for example promoting sitting down and meditating/practicing - which is, oh, actually serious work that takes discipline) falls into the delivery-portfolio of the guy with style & taste in the video below, metaphorically speaking.... The next shortcut up the mountain-peak, that ends quite somehwere else...

Yes. Don't know Angelo Dulio (but Ingram and Yangs descriptions). Full Enlightenment has the same deep structure always. Only one Nothingness/Reality/Infinite Consciousness/Universal Mind. Without a second. But the way & style being talked about it later varies from perspective to perspective. And to be more precise: The ego (as technical term) or character continues doing its thing. The separate-self-arisings/elements gets understood/seen in real time (and in all its aspect) as illusions moving in oneself, and are transcended and normally cut off (Trekchö) as Illusion. Unnecessary. Awakaned Awareness takes over, and lives ones life much more efficient than the old biased separate-self ever could. Waaay more pleasant. "One" just gets out of the way. Like a lense of perception, normally with some kind of location/center, with I-feelings and I-thoughts. That drops. What remains is an Understanding/Realization of that which can never not be there, Reality itself. That is Nothingness/Infinite Consciousness. The essence of all appearance, including the visual field, is that. That Nothingness is infinite, since any boundary to anything else would be form, an imagined arising. and while there are Infinite Perspectives in Indras Net, non-dimensionally "hovering" or being manifested/imagined in Nothingness (out of which you normally forget all but "your" perspective (and call that your life), the Awareness of all of these perspectives can ever only be that Infinite Nothingness, which is also the essence/Suchness of every appearance. Deep Structures of the process towards Enlightenment. To get there, you need at least the following Awakenings (discrete "hard" STATES, induced by meditation, psychedelic, karma, ..., that one can not jump with just conceptual thinking/videos/whatever. That ends with one form of Solipsism or another, a cul-de-sac) the ego-mind becoming a fully transparent witness (Mahamudra. Yoga 1 & 2): Death/Transcendence of the ego/person. Outcome Transparent Witness. Not yet death/Transcendence of the Indviduality/last subtle separate selves. Nonduality with the visual field (Mahamudra, Yoga of One Taste, Stage 3). Induced and boosted by the step above. the visual field becoming boundless/infinite (further ripening of One Taste Yoga): Infinite the Awakening that Consciousness is Nothingness, nothing that can ever be pointed to, and the Awakening that each and every appearance of the visual field IS Nothingness, its essence is Nothingness (further ripening of One Taste Yoga). Generalizing this awakening/understanding to any possible manifestation. the Awakening to this boundless infinite visual field/Consciousness being also timeless, eternal, never-not-here. Deathless alway-here-Mind. the "you" becoming nothing at all, no center, no lense, no feeling, no thought. Or all of that moving through you like the wind: Mahamudra, Yoga of Nonmeditation, stage 4. The visual field remains, but without you. Impersonal. That is a ripening process of Impersonality (similiar to the ripening of Nonduality in the Yoga of One Taste), which ends suddenly with waking up, or Full Enlightenment, crossing over to the Dharmakaya or whatever lingo floats ones boat. That is Full Enlightenment. Basis Enlightenment in Mahamudra. Fully Waking up to ones True Identity. The Awakenings of Yoga of One Taste, Stage 3, are already called Enlightenments, for example in Zen. That is a much more common Enlightenment than the real one, Basis Enlightenment. That is why for example Leo emphasizes in God Realization that True You/Reality/"God" (I am reluctant to use that word, not because it is technically incorrect, but because it can lead to a lot of Separate-Self-Boosting) imagines everything. That becomes fully clear with Full Enlightenment/Basis Enlightenment, realizing the full identity of oneself and Reality. Infinite Nothingness manifesting/imagining the whole gig. Like in couldn't be different, nowhere and in no dimension/time/anything. Can't be. That was a longer musing than I expected. These are the Deep Structures of the process of Enlightenment. that I have found in ANY Enlightenment-Path-Description. (like in: a few hundreds of books later. You know, nutcase...). You can have that and do that with cessations and a concentrative meditation path, or Dzogchen/Mahamudra. One doesn't need cessations, as Ingram and Yang confirm. Both (and also Wilber) changed later to include Mahamudra/Dzogchen elements. That gave at least yours truly something to think about. Good book for Mahamudra: Pointing out the Great Way, Brown. Many posts of yours truly on that also... And one little warning: Without the corresponding Awakening states, one will a) not understand (or get) Nonduality or Union with the (infinite) visual field by just conceptual description (for example of the one of yours truly above). No chance. But you can recognize when that starts to happen when you know the map of the path. You can know how to induce that with practice, and how to make out of a spark a forest fire b) not understand the full Impersonal nature of ones true being (Nothingness), the death and transcendence of the separate self. That is impossible before it fully happens. But one can get at least an idea when the ripening of that happens. When it fully happens, its clear. Unmistakenably so. Waking Up. So the "game"/path is to induce these states, via for example the practices described above. And then there is a cycle of meditation state->realization/understanding->boosting more meditation state (because it got more impersonal) -> more realization/understanding n+1. "Thinking" ones way to Oneness/God/ItsallIMAGINED and itSAULGOODMAN doesn't work, only leads to Ego/Separate-Self-Solipsism. The 5 aggregate frame is from the earliest phases of Buddhism. Buddhism tended to end at (and emphasize) causal states back in the day (like Nirvana/Cessation/Nothingness as state). That mostly got replaced (transcended and in included) with superior realizations later, Nondual in Ken Wilbers language (Nagarjuna, Madhyamaka). That basically means not loosing ones Identity as Nothingness being the whole Infinite Field (and the essence of that being Nothingness, not metaphorically but literally, as direct experience) as Nothingness. A nice statement from that stage is: - We are that reality. When you understand this, you see that you are nothing, and being nothing, you are everything. That is all.- Kalu Rinpoche. That is a statement one doesn't normally here from the early Buddhism phases. There is only one Nothingness, but the states can be a bit different on however the Nothingness is approached. However one defines Cessation, Nirvana, Nirvikalpha, nirodha samapatti, its all in the class of Causal State experiences of Ken Wilber. Causal in the meaning of Source, Nothingness. Nice article on nirodha samapatti https://medium.com/@rogerthis/lets-talk-nirodha-samapatti-insights-into-valance-and-the-supposed-ontic-primacy-of-consciousness-fd78a38f3d28 Yours truly would recommend forgetting the concept of Mahasamadhi. Cultural Baggage. Why should that happen? So much effort for the whole imagined/manifested show, and then its game over when one understand what one is? Doesn't happen in practice, and why should it? For the first time, one can play and celebrate manifestation without the fear and lack and cycle of suffering. That is the True Nondual Realization. It is not the scarcity and quite negative perspective of escaping suffering and reaching Nirvana that early Buddhism/Hinayana had. It is the full celebration of manifestation, full with Agape, and if done in an integral way and with intelligence just a beautiful dream. See Francis Lucille for example. He calls it life is a celebration then. It is. He has a very sane perspective on all of that. And please feel invited to review my archieve of posts for more details because yours truly is God, marvels all day at his own perfection, of course has madly fallen in LOVE with himself, and nobody else is awake, you are all dreaming, and only God can describe himself in the best way of all Multiverses possible since there are no others, and everbody else is wrong because or biased and so on and so on (put in the Solipsistic Ramblings of your preference n+1), and its all imagined anyway!!! Sorry, just kidding of course. If you like that channel, just ask and you will helped by various proponents of Absolute Solipsism and other funny concepts Selling Water by the River PS: Very necessary, after all this conceptual overkill of yours truly: Bassui: After having read the letter, drop it into the fire Much more true than all the stuff written above: “frog pond plop” Basho

A nice post from Frank Yang on Bernadette Roberts (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bernadette_Roberts ). https://www.instagram.com/p/CsJMKS6uNZf/ True No-Self is not the No-Self of no Ego, or No-Person, not even the No-Self of the Unitive States, or "being" a Nondual/Unitive Infinite (mere appearance) Field (that still contains an awareness (a separate self with individuality is having, subject) of an infinite empty nondual field ("object"), for example induced temporarily by psychedelics). True No-Self is the final death (or transcendece) of any form of the separate self, crossing over to Infinite Fully Empty Impersonal Nothingness/Consciousness, or Full Enlightenment. "There is a reality. We are that reality. When you understand this, you see that you are nothing, and being nothing, you are everything. That is all". - Kalu Rinpoche True No-Self can not be understood before fully waking up, before Great or Final Enlightenment, where any reamaining separate self fully dies/gets transcended, Infinite Impersonal Consciousness unseparable of its appearances arising within in. That last deep identity change is not gradual, but sudden. Unexpected. And has nothing beyond it. The dropping of the separate self can not (by definition) be imagined or understood before it finally happening, see the yellow markings above. Because who would do the imagining? A separate self (in whatever version). Which has to be gone to fully wake up. So the separate self can't do the imagining how it "would be like" to be gone. It is the "thing" doing/being the imagining. "Incapable of conceiving its own non existence", see text above. When one walks down the unitive states road to the end, boosted by Psychedelics, one can end up with forms of solipsism, and even further with an Infinity of Gods. A confusion of that with the Absolute, or Fully Empty Impersonal Infinite Consciousness, certain separate self aspects still left untranscended. Which then kill the unitive and nondual state of this separate self/unity-state-identity/God within an Infinity of Gods/Alien/n+1 when coming out of the trip. Necessary for that confusion (some form of pre-trans confusion to use the wording of Ken Wilber) is, among other confusions, to misidentitfy True No-Self: not True No-Self (the death/transcendence of any and all separate self/Individuality arisings, resulting in fully empty IMPERSONAL Consciousness/Nothingness/Absolute) but with some lower forms of "No-Self", like No-Ego, No-Person, No-separate-body-mind (but nondual), No-Self of Unitive States up to a very subtle and empty transparent Witness (already nondual, being the nondual infinite field), but with some Individuality still left. The last dropping/transcending/-seeing as objects arising in ones True Self- of identity, center, localization, any forms of individuality-arisings, very very subtle feelings or awareness OF Emptiness, OF an infinite universe being seen, awareness OF being, awareness of anything is what finally brings this sudden crossing over to ones Real Identity. Waking up, Enlightenment, fully empty and impersonal Consciousness/Reality. And that is where there is nowhere further to go (no n+1, no new Awakenings), final peace and liberation are to be found. In ones True Identity. And that is why stopping short, and declaring that stopping short (New Awakening n+1) as higher as that crossing over to ones Real Identity (Nothingness), is a dangerous pre-trans-confusion, which doesn't lead to ones True Being and final liberation and the end of suffering, but a continued grasping and suffering for ever higher and newer "Awakenings" not into emptiness/Nothingness, but form/manifestation, and how the manifestation/imagining process is structured. And for those not even walking this (psychedelic-) path, but basking in proliferating mere (retold) concepts or stories about this path, ending in Solipsism and Infinity of Gods, it doesn't even deliver the transcendence and beauty that these unitive and infinite psychedelic states bring. But something on a spectrum ranging from suffering to madness. The spiritual path is the transcendence of the separate self, its death or letting go, once and for all. Neti Neti, until fully being everything, because one has become the real Nothing/ness. Not the blowing up of the separate-self to infinite God-like-solipsistic dimension. That would be the other direction, leading not to freedom and love, but to suffering and closing down. Directly into the cycle of merciless suffering and dissatisfaction, being caught in the prison of the claws of the separate self/ego/self-contraction. That is what makes this pre/trans-confusion (at least in the perspective of yours truly) very very dangerous. And now, for those disagreeing, the Bear-and-Empty-Mirror thing (signature link) please Selling Water by the River PS: And to end a bit "lighter": A Samsara/Lila consisting of separate selves necessarily needs continuing Illusion/Ignorance concerning ones True Identity. So for the fraction that will for sure not change its mind just because there is Water being sold at the River (posting above), and still prefers to continue with a certain solipsistic-messiah complex, yours truly would recommend considering doing it with style: Something like the very charming and apparently very attractive for the ladies - style of Russell Brand: Then, at least, its very charming . Less capital letters, less exclamation-marks, less angry criticism, blaming and calling names, but truck-loads of charm, (especially) with the opposite sex!

Agree to your post. But on the quote I am not sure. The path to Enlightenment (by definition) is full of traps and cul-de-sacs/dead ends. Else, everybody starting it would end up enlightened. The whole Lila is structured to keep the show going, and the separate self illusion well and alive. That is not because God is evil, but to get a good show going with characters, the characters better have to believe the show is real... So, on the potential "fast-lane" psychedelic path, what to build in as hard to spot cul-de-sac? Of course a seductive kiss from Maya, when she whispers in ones ear how awesome, unique and infinite and God-like "one" is. It is just a trap, but a veeeery seductive one, especially in certain states. But no better Karma than having as little Narcicissm as possible. Yet, I hypothesize that for certain tasks/paths/innovations, pioneers that tend more towards the narcissistic end of the spectrum are plain and simple necessary. Because its always way easier to stay in the pack, than to be a pioneer... Takes a lot of self-confidence and being convinced of oneself to go where not many have been before. There is a very inspiring section in Kapleaus Three Pillars of Zen that stayed in my memory: Written by Harada-Roshi on the Enlightenment Yaeko, wo got Full Enlightenment a few days before dying from sickness. She went very fast through the initial symptoms of her Great/Full Enlightenment, getting very fast over her astonishment and "Enlightenment-High", because of being "one as gentle as she". Harada said that his own "Enlightenment-sickness" lasted almost 10 years. "An ancient Zen saying has it that to become attached to one’s own enlightenment is as much a sickness as to exhibit a maddeningly active ego. Indeed, the profounder the enlightenment, the worse the illness. In her case I think it would have taken two or three months for the most obvious symptoms to disappear, two or three years for the less obvious, and seven or eight for the most insidious. Such symptoms are less pronounced in one as gentle as she, but in some they are positively nauseating. Those who practice Zen must guard against them. My own sickness lasted almost ten years. Ha!" And the same of course also holds true before Enlightenment. Self-Importance is seen like a spiritual disease in Tibetan Buddhism, only holding one back, glued to suffering and Samsara. Because self-importance is just not correct, its an illusion. If ones True Being is the whole infinite thing, how could one separate thing/separate self be more important, more "anything", than another part? Selling Water by the River

Solipsism and Infinity of Gods is what you end with when you have understood a lot about the manifestated side of Reality/Consciousness (infinite mere appearance hovering nondual in Nothingness), which you can (more or less easily) access via psychedelics. But one oneself is not normally fully Empty/Impersonal Consciousness then. Not full Impersonal Nothingness. Of course one then has to project the remnants of the Inviduality/feelings of being OF something on reality (I am God, sovereign, all of it, all of this God/Buddhafield/Universe/Dimension). Because, as per my last post, the separate self can't fully imagine not being there anymore. If it could, it would be gone right away/enlightened/wake up. Traditional Great Masters had to "generate" this Nonduality/Unity states (infinite mere appearance hovering nondual in Nothingness) via getting empty/impersonal/transcending the separate self. Believe me, that takes a looong time of getting pretty empty/transcending the separate self arisings as an optional show within oneself. So they understand the impersonal empty aspect of Nothingness/Consciousness BEFORE they understand the manifested side (nondual, infinite, mere appearance hovering in Nothingness) of Infinite Consciousness, because these states they only get when being fully empty and impersonal themselves. Pure Consciousness/Reality, nothing specific, no separate self left. Its some kind of "build-in-quality-control" of the classical meditation paths (Neti Neti): You only get to see the Infinite/mere appearance/nondual Nothingness-aspect of the manifestations of the visual field (any kind of field) when being fully empty/Nothingness. So what should one get to see in theory (and apparently in practice also) if one ends up after "seeing" the infinite manifestation of Infinite Consciousness/God while not fully being nothing/Nothingness/God-proper? Solipsism (1) (or the separate self remnants realizing its identity with THIS universe/Buddha-Field/all of it). And that is "true" in so far that there are psychedelic experiences that very much feel like that. But a partial truth, there is more to go, higher truths... Full Enlightenment/Deep Identity Change to full empty Nothingness. and pushing even further, see Video "Infinity of Gods (2)", OTHER Gods/Buddhafields. Or Infinity of Gods. Thats the utmost peak of that cul-de-sac, because: Oh no, there are OTHERS like "oneself". And an Infinity of them. An Infinity of Gods. Problem: Very Nondual and infinite and Oneness and being Ultimate Reality/Absolute indeed.... So, a (2) continuation of another partial truth (1). Not the end of the story, but something that can happen, depending on the path up the mountain. A direct experience, that needs to be unpacked and interpreted. And the final truth is: Full Enlightenment/Deep Identity Change to full empty Nothingness. No other. One without a second. And: Nothing further. The understanding that one fooled oneself in ingenious ways (like, the whole show, a rabbit hole infinitely deep...) , and the complexity how one fools oneself, comes included with Enlightenment (by definition). Its all appearance within oneself, all illusion. What would be necessary now,at (1) or (2), would be to fully die/transcend ones separate self-arisings, becoming fully impersonal and nothing/empty, realizing ones Deep Identity with Nothingness/Absolute Reality. And then one throws out (better: transcends, or spots fast enough while it arises in oneself and just cuts it off, automated-style) each and every subtle concept/feeling of oneself and of the Absolute/Reality, for the Absolute CONTAINS them all, but is NONE of them. The Absolute/Nothingness can only be described in negative language, of what it is not. In-finite. Not finite. Not measurable, not defineable. Reality itself. But for that, one needs normally a lot of time in these empty and impersonal states (if ones name is not Ramana, one probably does). So how much 5 MeO can a human take, and how empty of any form of separate self are these states really? The tried and true technique is and ever has been meditation, or transcending/dying of each and every arising of the separate-self (transcending, or spotting fast enough while it arises in oneself and just cuts it off, automated-style), delivering as much time in these empty impersonal states, the Portals of the Absolute, see one of my last posts, as necessary. By the way, I am in no way against psychedelics. Psychedelics plus meditation. So psychedelics alone remains a dangerous path with potential for ego/separate self-inflation, instead of full ego/separate-self transcedence/death, until spiritual culture fully gets to grips with these quite new phenomena of highly efficient psychedelics like 5 MeO and so on. But the psychedelic path is here, and it won't go away. We will see its challenges, disfunctions and trainwrecks, its sweetness for the ego to hijack it for narcicissm/solipsism/hybris and ego inflation, being explored first time in scale in broad daylight here in this forum. Probably until the end of our days. But also the vast potential of this path. Let's see if the dark side or the light side of the force prevails. I don't know, let's see. Probably a mix of both. In the longterm, the light side of the force prevails as always, simply because the Kosmos wants to grow in evolution/complexity/awakening to itself, but until then if history shows anything any misuse and f***up possible will be fully expored and savored by humanity. Until it finally gets it right. So: Show must go on. And I am waiting and looking forward very much for the first ever fully empty/impersonal/fully enlightened Alienmind walking here on earth on two legs, thinking and understanding the Kosmos/Reality in non-linear ways like never seen before in simple non-psychedelic-boosted human mind-streams. The content and aspects of that post is more elaborated in my previous posts. Selling Water by the River