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Also on that I agree. Fully. As long as it is a fully enlightened Alien Consciousness on a stable basis. Imagine a little very happy and blissful Alien Consciousness, fully aware pretty much all of the time of its True Natrue, basking in the bliss of its True Nature. So lets go up the ladder of enlightened beings, and why the higher ones probably smile lovingly on the fully enlightened primitive human. One can have a fully enlightened human, and then a fully enlighened angel (or whatever one wants to call that), and even probably an fully enlightened planetary consciousness. Then fully enlightened Galaxy-Consciousness. Fully Enlightened= knows its True Nature, and that of all appearance, of all realms, all dimensions, of all that is possible. Short form: Knows Absolute Infinite Reality/Consciousness. The essence of all(!) possible realms/dimensions. And probably quite early above the Human level, full enlightenment is given or pre-requisite. See Christopher Baches "Diamond Light Lucidity Beings", LSD and the Mind of the Universe: Diamonds from Heaven Then an enlightened entity (also a, although huge, enlightened perspective in Indras Net, encompassing holarchically many other perspectives, but not as dominant monad perspective, but as group holon, yet with its own agency) creating, maintaining and managing a Universe. An enlightened entity managing a group of Universes. For sure extremely Alien already here. Next: An enlightened entity containing, reflecting and managing an enlightened entity managing a group of Universes. Thinking about which kind of Dimension to create next. Next: An enlightened entity containing an infinity of the entities above, defining the charateristics of appearing universes so alien to ours that they would be barely reckognizeable. Next: An enlightened entity containing an infinity of the entities above, Next n+1, and the mathematical move of n towards infinity. That is a class of Infinity, and STILL not Infinite Absolute Reality. Still not all of Reality. Still not God. And now comes to kicker: A holarchie of enlighened beings upwards to infinity. That is btw. Ken Wilbers perspective (although he holds back): Holons upwards to infnity, and downwards (or we will never find the final quark/string, whatever). And what contains all of that? The INFINITE Absolute Reality/Consciousness. God. The Singularity that can very well be realized. Not on animal level, but starting here on human level on this lovely little planet of ours. Sure, there is nothing else to do until all of eternity than exploring exactly all the realms/dimensions/consciousnesses and so on. Hopefully in a fully enlightened way, basking in the bliss of True Nature. Maybe that helps getting an idea why yours truly is not too much grasping and suffering for certain insights/Awakenings going up that ladder towards Infinity and ever more Alien stuff (and giving up staying in True Nature/bliss while doing so). Health in an eco-system (or Holarchie) is also defined as functional fit: Knowing ones role/being/limitations, and having healthy exchanges on all levels of being, up and down the Holarchie. And there is plenty of juicy job-opportunities described in the ladder above, for all of eternity and every next life still yet to come. And on all levels, Empty Mirros are very welcome, see signature. Water by the River

Allow me some further musings on the topic. In stage 3 Yoga of One Taste (One Taste = Nondual), Nonduality starts showing up. But Nonduality is not Impersonal Infinite Consciousness, because one can be in nondual Unity and still think that one is an "enlightened person", or any other crappy concept or self-identity for that matter. The ripening of Nonduality goes from stage 3 Yoga of One Taste to stage 4, Yoga of Nonmeditation. Nonmeditation, because the meditation has become so automized that the need for any separate-self agency feeling doing anything is no longer necessary and is discarded and also cut off. And then one is accident-prone to the possible accident of Enlightenment, Impersonal Infinite Consciousness realizing itself. At that stage, doing anything is just creating another cloud hiding the sun of ones true being, because doing anything would be another thougt/feeling-movement in Infinite Consciousness/Mind/Reality. And psychedelics are very nice for helping the whole process, and for exploring the Multiverse and other interesting stuff. But for transcending the last subtle separate-self-identity-arisings (subtle separate-self thoughts and feelings), and cutting off the sometimes arisings-non-bliss-feeling-bad-arisings (in other words: suffering) that are a part of the separate-self-package, I have yet to see one case (just a single one would be very interesting) where that has been done mainly on a stable basis/outcome in daily life with only psychedelics. That can be very well had with meditation practice. Meditation: Actually, from all I have seen, getting rid of all the clouds of the separate-self takes a long time in certain states (boundless, timeless infinite consciousness, nondual and the separate-self already nothing but a feeling of "individuality", some "nothing" watching the nondual totality), 100s of hours. Maybe 1000s. For most practitioners at least, including yours truly. On the stage 3 and 4 of the stages of Yoga of One Taste and Yoga of Nonmeditation alone (and these are not boring or annoying sitting meditation hours by then, but blissful and wonderful hours in daily life in something called Post-Samadhi-Meditation (or off the pillow meditation) in the book). And in that 100s or 1000s of hours subtle separtate-self identities/arisings get spotted, seen (subject->object), transcended and cut off. And I can assure you, oh boy, these are sometimes really sneaky and subtle. When all of that is transcended, the sudden Deep Identity Shift/Understanding can happen. "Yes, there is nothing else than THAT, and "my" essence is that, and what "I" thought I was was just a movement/arising of thoughts/feelings/centers within THAT. My True Being is all of Reality. But nothing specific. No separate-anything. The whole enchilada without center and core". But its not a elaborated thinking. It is Infinite Consciousness UNDERSTANDING/REALIZING itself, and there is nothing else than THAT, never possibly could be. The understanding in thought-form gets elaborated LATER, after Infinite Consciousness/Reality has understood itself, the nature of the world and its own nature (nondual). Psychedelics: bring a lot and strong forms of the Awakened States (nondual, infinite, mere appearance, and a lot more). States that one would only get by meditation if already very empty, or the separate-self-arising (thought/feeling)flow already cut a lot. So the states are very awake/nondual/infinite, but the separate-self-arisings is still colouring the experience. Although they can also be very subtle/empty at that state. And that is my little theory that explains all phenomena and examples I have seen so far: There is just not enough time and deeply cut-off/transcended separate-self-arisings in psychedelic states to cause that deep Identity-Level Shift of Full Enlightenment. And often, and maybe even much more problematic than the point just mentioned, there is a lot of nonduality/Unity in psychedelic states but a lot of separate-self-feelings/identites/... still left. Not a pure and impersonal Nonduality/Unity, but rather a Unity loaded with not-so-impersonal-stuff. And that doesn't fully count as these 100s or 1000s hours mentioned above, because they may be not so flashy consciousness/awakened, but are already quite nondual/Unity and very very impersonal/empty/nearly-no-separate-self still left. Only last fragments, being dissolved as time goes on. Short form: Meditation: Unity/Nonduality/Awakened States only when very large parts of separate-self-arisings (thoughts/feelings) are already gone/transcended Psychedelics: Lots of Unity/Nondual/Awakened States EVEN with separate-self-arisings (thoughts/feelings) in large parts not seen trough, even with the help of the psychedelic. Full Enlightenment: And for the sudden Deep Identity Level Shift of Full Enlightenment the separate-self-arisings/thoughts/feelings need to be ALL seen through/Transcended/cut off (which at the same time is also a huge boost of Nonduality/Awakenings, making the whole field an infinite nondual groundless mere appearance field hovering within ones timeless true always here Being, and Infinite Awareness Space with separate-self-center/Individuality fully gone. Just THIS). In Full Enlightenment, there is no agent left that is still believed, no center. So one IS Reality itself. And literally everything that could ever appear is a manifested/imagined arising/appearance, imagined by "the" Infinite Mind/Consciousness. And that "Mind", or Reality, dreams and is deluded until "It" realized there is only itself, watching itself, fooling and believing itself in endless appearances. If there is "someone", or arisings of a "you" that thinks "it" is enlightened: Welcome, that is another illusion-layer (as Leo correctly points out). It is maybe an Enlightenment (Nondual Unity with the Infinite Void), but not Full Enlightenment. And for the impersonal aspect: Sounds horrible, in practice its wonderful: One is this life "oneself", next life maybe life something else completely: Different personality, different body, Human, Alien, whatever. Impersonal Consciousness open up exactly that. Like dreaming being someone/something else at night. But the price of transcending this specific bodymind has to be paid. And since its only an illusion, only has some fear-defense-mechanism BEFORE the Gateless Gate of waking up to ones True Identity, Infinite Impersonal Consciousness, or Reality itself. Water by the River

@Water by the River ok, then full enlightenment is the complete dissolution of individuality and identification with absolute reality without limit. and according to you that eliminates suffering. Ok, agree (with suffering let's say, minimize it). let's see, you give great importance to thought, and you focus the process of enlightenment on mastering and understanding the source of thought. Maybe it's necessary without psychedelics. the source of thought is obvious: reality, like everything else. it is not necessary to stop the thought but to see through it, understanding what the thought is, and paying no attention to it. dissolve individuality completely and identify with infinity, ok, let's call it enlightenment. It is not the end of the matter, it is the beginning. Before to this point you are insane and your life is a nightmare. after this point, freedom begins, you flow and understand. but the reality of what you are is unlimited, as you will perceive if you have really transcended the limits, then you will see the need to explore, to go deeper. Do you understand the pattern of existence that it means to be a human? the layers of code that make up this experience, what are they? everything opens, unfolds, and psychedelics are the key. psychedelics are a key into the code that this experience is. They are nothing foreign to you, they are you. and you don't use them? impossible. Limited. But of course, anyone have their preferences, and no one is the good one

What is full enlightenment? Could you describe?

I agree that some Awakenings can't be had without psychedelics. And that what you call Alien Consciousness is for sure cutting edge. And I do consider you a pioneer, and have read so far most of what you wrote, and watched most of your videos. "Alien Consciousness is completely beyond everything those Buddhists understand or have ever achieved." That I don't know, since I don't know what every Buddhist has achieved. But it is very well possible what you write, since they didn't have 5-MeO and other stuff. They had psychedelics [ Secret Drugs of Buddhism: Psychedelic Sacraments and the Origins of the Vajrayana ], but not all what is available now, and not pure. But some exploration they did: https://www.psychedelicsangha.org/paisley-gate/2019/5/8/the-supreme-array-scripture-a-psychedelic-stra-for-buddhist-psychonauts-pp3zz , Yet, I consider Full Enlightenment becoming that Ultimate Reality as a Deep Identity level shift, with no more filters of the separate-self not seen through or covering that Realization/Deep Identity Level shift, no more filter on any of these Awakenings/Enlightenments. True Self, because every being is that already, with some illusion-clouds on top. Not projecting Absolute Reality on separate-self remains, but pure Impersonal Infinite Consciousness. And since that brings bliss and liberation in daily life. I consider it highly valueable. Summum Bonum [ https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Summum_bonum ] So lets continue exploring and awakening to ever higher, larger and more encompassing [Alien] perspectives in Indras Net of Reality, since that is one of the reasons why we are, and one of the reasons God is playing that game/Lila. I just propose doing that from a consideration of the basis of the Summum Bonum mentioned above. Considering that suffering = continued search for further experiences/understandings/realization and end of suffering = resting in ones Deep True Identity as Reality itself, there is a "little" pointer given by Reality via suffering on that issue. Specifically: Placing the importance/value of Alien Consciousness on the same level as striving for Full Enlightenment, i feel fine with that. As long as the Alien Consciousness doesn't drag home some less-than-healthy consequences. Why? Because the paths for both goals go towards more Consciousness, not less. They run parallel, or at least normally not opposed if one doesn't get lost in these Alien Awakenings. Which probably can be avoided. Placing anything higher as the striving for Full Enlightenment is in my perspective choosing suffering, which is not a permanently sustainable strategy. That is the only reason why I am writing all of this. Besides that, I am a big fan Leo! The world needs more people like you. The more pioneers we have, the faster the Wild West is explored. And the faster we know where the rattlesnakes are hiding, which branch-off of the path leads to Death Valles and which leads to California. Water by the River

Let me try to answer your questions as brief as possible. That is challenging, because the Mahamudra system is technically very complex with many stages. I like to compare Zen/Theravada to cutting a tree with an axe, while Mahamudra is something like a forest harvester: The axe was available already in stone-age and worked, robust and slow. The forest harvester needs precise handling and thorough understanding & training, but is waaay faster. Anyway, lets try the impossible at least roughly. Here is my main thread of the explanation on Mahamudra in the Pointing out the Great Way style (Daniel Brown, 600 page book, around 200-300 pages on the juicy main-practice-stages of Mahamudra). To give you an idea/feeling (not really possible to do in brief, but I try): The description of two main steps: Stage 1 of 4, Skill of Recognition Stage 3 of 4, Yoga of One Taste (One Taste = Nondual) Lets start with Stage 1 of 4, Skill of Recognition It is a "High-Speed-Search-Task into Nature of thoughts, into the "Unfindability/Emptiness" of thoughts. They evaporate when looking into their nature. The nature of every emerging thought/concept, emerging out of Infinite Consciousness/Absolute Reality): And the nature of thoughts is its unfindability: Thoughts have no location, they are "made"/essence out of Infinite Consciousness. Thoughts dissolve when looking into their nature (Aware Empty Infinite Consciousness). One can never "find" a thought. They dissolve when looking into their essence. They move within onself, and dissolve when looking into them And that process/phenomenon is used. and with that cutting off (=Trekchö), since its nature is empty Infinite Consciousness/Suchness. Consciousness literally stops the thought then. At one point when one is fast enough, one sees the order of emergence IN the Infinite Mind is Understanding or just some other cause Thought emergence (fully formed, fully emerging in mili-seconds, but not yet "elaborated-out" over several seconds) being elaborated out over a part of a second to several seconds) And step 3 doesn't happen then. It is cut off. THAT is was brings Awakened States (nondual, boundless, basically if done fast enough. The thought "capsules" start emerging faster and faster then, 10-20 thoughts capsules per second+, and at some point Awareness stays "on top" of even that. That is where the magic starts (Nonduality begins developing, and the mindstream can get silent, bliss starts flowing. A very discrete and "hard" psychological process). And that happens in the beginning phases still on the pillow, but can also happen very much in daily life when intensive thought activity is not necessary. Later, it becomes also possible with sophisticated intellectual/creative thinking, when Awareness has become strong enough to stay lucid THROUGH the thought-elaboration. No longer hypnotized, the creative/intellectual happening within oneself on auto-pilot. Awakened Awareness and its Infinite Intelligence tends to take over, the separate-self/ego gets out of the way. That makes it also much more effective, since the ego/separte-self tended to act as a filter. From this Awakenened Awareness all intelligence and creativity comes from anyway, that is why creativity is so highly valued and pleasurable. This Awakened Awareness is the source of bliss anyway.... So, then the next step described in this post (Stage 2, see link above, jumped due to the specific question of Leo for "daily" practice: Stage 3 of 4, Yoga of One Taste. One Taste = Nondual boundless consciousness. Getting that into daily life. When enough proficiency of creating lucid states with this High-Speed-Cutoff is generated, the Awareness/Lucidity doesn't get lost when thinking. It stays. And with it the Awakened States. And then daily life starts getting nondual, especially if no academic thinking is necessary (still large parts of the day). With academic style thinking/creative thinking, it takes more Lucidity/Training, but is doable. 2nd TOPIC OF THIS POST: God-Realization in your words, or "You become conscious of God as an Infinite Mind dreaming up reality." And this (Yoga of One Taste) brings us then to the "base camp of Full Enlightenment", the "jumping platform" where Full Enlightenment can happen (some of which main aspects you refer to with God Realization): Stage 4, Yoga of Nonmeditation. I have written elsewhere about it, see link above. The Nondual Stages of Yoga of One Taste would get confirmed in other traditions (Zen for example) as Enlightenment/Satori/Kensho. But not Great/Full Enlightenment, or God-Realization in your wording. That is an "accident", for which Stage 3&4 make accident-prone. I agree with you that Emptiness/Void is neither God Realization nor Full Enlightenment, where also that "You become conscious of God as an Infinite Mind dreaming up reality" is realized. I am starting more to understand why you emphasize that in your language/system of experience, and I agree on the importance of it. In Zen, there is a differentiation between just shallower Enlightenments (Kenshos, Satoris) into the empty nature of all appearance, or into emptiness. The separte-self can still be very alive then. The Full Enlightenment on the other side, the total dissolution of the separate-self, leaves one with exactly that realization: "You become conscious of God as an Infinite Mind dreaming up reality." Although there is no more you, nor God, but Reality itself becoming consciousness OF itself IMAGINING itself as all there ever could be. This Enlightenment is probably between 10-50 less common than the real thing of Full Enlightenment. Probably that is why you are so annoyed with the large majority of Buddhist Enlightenments (either contemporarily claimed or described in literature). Let me give you four examples of that differentiation (I could give many more, but that would blast the post. Ok, I admit, its already blasted and way too long... forgive me). 1) Huang Po https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Huangbo_Xiyun "One Mind Huángbò's teaching centered on the concept of “mind” (Chinese: hsin), a central issue for Buddhism in China for the previous two centuries or more. He taught that mind cannot be sought by the mind. One of his most important sayings was “mind is the Buddha”. He said: All the Buddhas and all sentient beings are nothing but the One Mind, beside which nothing exists [red by me]. The One Mind alone is the Buddha, and there is no distinction between the Buddha and sentient beings.[8] He also said: To awaken suddenly to the fact that your own Mind is the Buddha [Nothing exists beside IT=God=Reality=True You], that there is nothing to be attained or a single action to be performed – this is the Supreme Way.[9]" 2) Yogachara school https://integrallife.com/toward-fourth-turning-buddhism/ "The very notion of the “not-twoness” of Emptiness and Form opened the door, as we briefly mentioned, to other even “stronger” versions of nonduality or (metaphoric!) Wholeness, one of the most prominent being the Yogachara, introduced by the half‑brothers Asanga (more of a brilliant innovator) and Vasubandhu (more of an acute synthesizer). Another name for their school—Vijnaptimatra—is usually translated as “Mind-only” or “Representation-only.” The point here is that the “not-twoness” of Emptiness and Form allowed some philosopher-sages to come up with other terms for the “Form” that was seamlessly conjoined with ultimate Emptiness or Shunyata, one of them being “Mind” itself. The idea was that “Mind” itself was the same as Emptiness—the Yogachara philosophers were adamant that they were talking about the same “unqualifiable” Emptiness that Nagarjuna was, but by also referring to it as “Mind” they were giving (some would say metaphorically, some would say absolutely) a type of compass that would help relate ultimate Emptiness to an everyday reality everybody was aware of (such as, namely, the Mind). The Zen saying, “The everyday mind, just that is the Tao (ultimate Truth)” is a good example of this type of Yogachara thinking. And it showed clearly how one could “bring everything to the path,” starting with your own, simple, everyday awareness. This opened so many other doors—especially Tantra and Vajrayana—that it is referred to as “The Third Turning of the Wheel of Dharma.” Buddhism has philosophically run a long way. Hinayana didn't even have the full Nondual Realization of Absolute Reality, Nagarjuna made Madyamaka (nothing can be said about Ultimate Reality). And where did it end? The philosophy all which pretty all sophisticated Tantric Buddhism system rely on? MIND-ONLY, Yogachara. We need to at least differentiate the 2500 year system of Buddhism into these development steps. If not, we are fighting with a "fossil-philosophy"... 3) The Supreme Source, one of the main texts of Dzogchen (quite close to the Mahamudra above, Brown uses Dzogchen and Mahamudra elements together): on which breathtaking beautiful absolute perpective you agreed: There is gold in Buddhism, Full Enlightenment, God Realization. And tools to make it stable in daily life. The later systems of Tantric Buddhism, but also Mahayana, have at their philosophic core Yogachara or Madhyamaka (I have written on that elsewhere). These two qualifications of Ultimate Reality are in line with what you call God Realization. 4) In Zen 3 pillars of Zen, Kapleau: Some quotes from that book: "ROSHI: With a first enlightenment the realization of oneness is usually shallow. Yet if one has genuinely perceived, even though dimly, and continues to practice devotedly for five or ten more years, this inner vision will expand in depth and magnitude as one’s character acquires flexibility and purity." The story of Bassui: "You become conscious of God as an Infinite Mind dreaming up reality." "This way is no other than the realization of your own Mind. Now what is this Mind? It is the true nature of all sentient beings, that which existed before our parents were born and hence before our own birth, and which presently exists, unchangeable and eternal. So it is called one’s Face before one’s parents were born. This Mind is intrinsically pure. When we are born it is not newly created, and when we die it does not perish. It has no distinction of male or female, nor has it any coloration of good or bad. It cannot be compared with anything, so it is called Buddha-nature. Yet countless thoughts issue from this Selfnature as waves arise in the ocean or as images are reflected in a mirror. To realize your own Mind you must first of all look into the source from which thoughts flow And: Realization Emptiness, or Void, IS NOT YET FULL ENLIGHTENMENT: "In this propitious state deepen and deepen the yearning, tirelessly, to the extreme. When the profound questioning penetrates to the very bottom, and that bottom is broken open, not the slightest doubt will remain that your own Mind is itself Buddha, the Void-universe. There will then be no anxiety about life or death, no truth to search for. In a dream you may stray and lose your way home. You ask someone to show you how to return or you pray to God or Buddhas to help you, but still you can’t get home. Once you rouse yourself from your dream-state, however, you find that you are in your own bed and realize that the only way you could have gotten home was to awaken yourself. This [kind of spiritual awakening] is called “return to the origin” or “rebirth in paradise.” It is the kind of inner realization that can be achieved with some training. Virtually all who like zazen and make an effort in practice, be they laypeople or monks, can experience to this degree. But even such [partial] awakening cannot be attained except through the practice of zazen. You would be making a serious error, however, were you to assume that this was true enlightenment in which there is no doubt about the nature of reality. You would be like one who having found copper gives up the desire for gold." Or: Not yet Full Enlightenment-Realization. "But even now repeatedly cast off what has been realized, turning back to the subject that realizes, that is, to the root bottom, and resolutely go on. Your Self-nature will then grow brighter and more transparent as your delusive feelings perish, like a gem gaining luster under repeated polishing, until at last it positively illumines the entire universe [infinite nondual mere appearance boundlessness of ones nondual limitless being then]." "You must understand that anything appearing in your consciousness or seen by your eyes is an illusion [imagined], of no enduring reality. Hence you should neither fear nor be fascinated by such phenomena. If you keep your mind as empty as space, unstained by extraneous matters, no evil spirits can disturb you even on your deathbed. While engaged in zazen, however, keep none of this counsel in mind. You must only become the question “What is this Mind?” or “What is it that hears these sounds?” When you realize this Mind you will know that it is the very source of all Buddhas and sentient beings. And that ends in Full Enlightenment: "keep asking with all your strength, “What is it that hears?” Only when you have completely exhausted the questioning will the question burst; now you will feel like someone who has come back from the dead. This is true realization. You will see the Buddhas of all the universes face-to-face and the Dharma Ancestors past and present [they all have been expressions of this Infinite Mind of yours, of the only Reality there is or could be, dreaming up all these worlds]." There is nothing else than: "You become conscious of God as an Infinite Mind dreaming up reality." And that becomes stable in daily life when there is no longer a separate-self, but only Reality. God. True Nature. Whatever one wants to call "It" then... And that Ultimate Reality is Impersonal Infinite Consciousness. "It" is both nothing/impersonal, but also everything there could be imagined. It is Reality itself. The True Core of each being. As long as something of a remaining separate-self projected on it, its not stable in daily life. The remains of that separate-self will also "colour" all higher insights/realizations. Bliss doesn't flow yet full time, so the suffering will make the being continue and refine anything that is not conforming to this Ultimate Reality, ones True being. Or according to Huang Po, The One [Infinite] Mind that dreams or imagines it all up all Reality. Water by the River PS: Ok, yours truly confesses: short is it not, the post.... But please don't hit me too hard, took some time to write, and I got plenty of other things to do also.

Hey @Leo Gura, while @Water by the River has gone to extensive length in several posts to explain and clarify his position on what exactly Absolute Consciousness is from his pov, I see you either repeatedly refuse his take on the Absolute, or you say in general that nobody knows what Consciousness really is. Could you then please clarify and precicely state for all of us what Consciousness fundamentally is from your perspective and where this differs from saying that in full enlightenment one moves permanently from being a body/mind in an objective world to being impersonal, centerless, empty, boundless eternal infinite consciousness floating nowhere, nowhen, nohow, with all traces of seperate self arisings distinguished, with all distinctions/differences collapsed until there is only life left onto itself. In regards to the above statement, if you say to become 'more conscious', do you mean you become conscious of more/other fundamental aspects of God (like empty, eternal, boundless, centreless etc.), or do you mean with 'more conscious' that you become conscious of the exact workings/mechanics of reality itself, like for example becoming conscious how exactly you create/will the entire perceptual field into existence?

I've heard of guys who just sit around and bliss out. But your "comprehension or realization of full enlightenment" will come from sitting still and shutting off your mind. So I don't see contradiction here. You're basically talking about insane amounts of meditation. This is a very reductionistic and misleading way to put it. Well, I beg to differ. You make a good point. However from the point of view of teaching, the classic path you suggest boils down to sitting for months on end in silence doing nothing. So I have nothing to teach on that matter. Anyone who is hardcore enough to undertake that path is welcome to do so. Realistically extremely few people will ever do this. And talking about it endlessly is not going to help people do it. I would say, either decide to do it or stop talking about it. From what I can see you basically got two ways to achieve this: 1) Insane amounts of full-time meditation. This requires you quit your job, drop your relationships, and meditate full-time for months. 2) Do years of pretty hardcore Kriya yoga. With no real guarantees. I'm not sure what kind of promises Kriya makes about the end of suffering. Doesn't seem realistic. What other way is there? The reason I don't talk much about these paths is because they are so hardcore I don't think anyone will do them. Those people who would do them are basically taking the path of the full-time monk. And if you're just going to meditate an hour or two per day, I would consider the end of suffering a pipe dream. There is a good reason why I've never talked much about this whole "end of suffering" business. And that is because this is such a near-impossible feat that only the hardest of the hardcore will achieve it. And even those who claim to achieve it, I have my doubt how true it is. So I say back to you, have mercy on my followers and don't fill their heads with pipe dreams. Many of them don't have the potential to end all suffering. And once you fill their heads with this expectation, you will multiply their suffering many fold. The reason I talk about psychedelics is because they are effective for ordinary people in one weekend. But of course this cannot produce the positive benefits from years of a full-time monk lifestyle.

You would be the first one for whom that bliss-out has worked permanently without the comprehension or Realization of Full Enlightenment by just shutting off the mind and sitting still. I see. If you mean the manifestations/appearances/Awakenings n+1 that Consciousness can produce WITHIN it and become aware of it, awaken to it ever more: It is endless. In that way, you also don't comprehend it. And never finally will or can. Its God business exploring what it/God can do, its potential, forever. We are the instruments of the Reality/God doing that. It will never stop, never run out of new Awakeninsg. An Infinity of Infinties, as already Cantor has shown. But I do comprehend the Absolute, or my True Nature, and the nature of the dream. And with that all possible dreams. And that ends the separate-self, and the psychological suffering. And with that, we align. And I am, and will remain, a big fan of your explorations and Awakenings. Just have some mercy on your followers: Many of them don't have the potential you have of exploring the Multiverse/Consciousness, and just suffer more if they don't pursue the classic path to the end of suffering, the end of the separate-self contraction, or Full Enlightenment, and go instead for exploring the Infinite Infinities of Reality. Most of them will probably not reach Full Enlightenment in this life, but it is not the only life they have. It is growth over a long cycle of lifes (see for example Jürgen Ziewe, http://www.multidimensionalman.com/Multidimensional-Man/Life_after_death_-_a_description_of_the_afterlife.html ). Maybe they have to learn their individual package in this life? Setting these up for the path of the (fascinating and important) exploration of the Infinity of Dimensions of Reality and ever higher Awakenings into Consciousness (your Karma) will lead to additional suffering on their side. Maybe there is balance possible that honours the respect, beauty and splendour of Gods creations, ever higher Awakenings and becoming more consciousness (that I don't denie at all), and the path each soul is traveling towards its True Being? To minimize suffering for all possible beings? Water by the River

Yes. Javfly33, every being ends up with that insight after having been beaten enough by INFINITELY large and Infinitely Intelligent Reality. Every being suffers as long as all these mindsets of doing something else than trying to finding permanent bliss persist. And even in doing or prefering something else they just do something that brings bliss or peace or good emotions, even when searching ever new Awakenings n+1, or getting maximum conscious, whatever that means in the individual case). So, its just the question of a) learning by suffering by trying the 1000+1 games separate-selfs play, and seeing that they all fail in bringing permanent happiness. Takes a longer time, but is the nature of this game/lila/universe and its Raison d'Être (the Lila-Show) or b) learning by insight and going straight to the finish line, or back home to ones True Being: Full Enlightenment. The Deep Identity Shift to being the Infinite Reality itself, the one without a second, or Infinite Impersonal Consciousness. All I am trying to do is highlighting this little dynamic how the Absolute "throws" itself out into manifestation, form, the many, separate-self, and PULLS itself back home either by suffering or insight. And valueing a) higher as b), or a) being somehow spiritual superior to b). In a certain way, I am spoiling the game/Lila of a). But just look at the reactions, I am very sure I won't spoil it for too many... Water by the River

And "insane levels of consciousness" or "insigh" into what? Appearance/Form/Arisings IN Absolute Reality. N+1, evermore, forever. You never "arrive" somewhere (IT is infinite and Infinity). And while doing that and not being fully enlightened (or BEING Ones True Nature, Absolute Reality): Suffering in cycles. "I have never claimed that psychedelics result in the lack of suffering." But at least I got the message that the end of psychological suffering (or Full Enlightenment) was declared impossible, or at least as lower in value or priority (like in "spiritual summom bonum, https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Summum_bonum) to ever new and higher Awakenings. Please correct me if I got the wrong impression. Look, exploring Reality with ever new Awakenings: Wonderful, I am all for it! It is the future of Humanity, and you are a pioneer. There are literally endless dimensions to be explored. By the way, do you know the work of Jurgen Ziewe (longtime Out of body explorer, with legit Enlightenment experiences)? (http://www.multidimensionalman.com/Multidimensional-Man/Model_of_the_Multidimensional_Universe.html ; http://www.multidimensionalman.com/Multidimensional-Man/Higher_Mental_Planes_or_Heaven_Worlds.html ; http://www.multidimensionalman.com/Multidimensional-Man/Life_after_death_-_a_description_of_the_afterlife.html ) for example. I am sure you would love it. The only problem I see is giving that higher exploration of ever higher Awakenings n+1 more value/priority over stabilzing in ones True Being (Full Enlightenment). Because it will lead to more suffering for many, including you. That is as far as I can see that is pretty much the only point where we have different perspectives. And please take care that you dont take some demons/angels (sorry old fashioned wording from a few centuries ago) Aliens of the not so well meaning kind (Jaques Valle, Passport to Magonia: From Folklore to Flying Saucers; Charles Upton, The Alien Disclosure Deception; Graham Hancock, Supernatural) back home from the exploration, and go really insane and not just a bit alien insane. And that is meant not ironically, but well meaning and respectfully. Hic sunt dracones. All the best for your future journey, and same for all forum participants. Really. Water by the River

Yes. All there is is Suchness, or Consciousness. Nondual. "IT" is also the only consciousness "thing" that can perceive anything. Since there is only "itself" (all appearances, every world/dimension), It can only perceive "itself". Normally as an "other", not nondual. But that also means, since "it" is the only consciousness "thing" there is: "It" can only understand itself. There is nothing else. "Enlightenment is an accident. Practice makes accident prone.": We can call that "accident" of Enlightenment whatever we want: IT/Absolute is also infinitely intelligent, and an infinite network of perspectives/holons within Indras Net has to align/"approve"/whatever before ones perspective (the sentient being/you) understands/gets what "It" is ("Full Enlightenment"). There is nothing to be done at THAT point of practice, because any doing would be an arising/movement of thoughts/intentions in consciousness. An a movement of thought/ego is FORM, an appearance, and arising, starting-moving-ending IN THAT/Consciousness/Reality/You. So that is not "It". At the right state, it can happen. That state needs to be cultivated normally over a longtime (practice makes accident-prone). From (for example a description from the Mahamudra-system, but that step-logic of practice is in most systems): Yoga of One Taste (=already nondual) cultivating that state in which the accident can happen, to Yoga of Nonmeditation, in which all activity is stopped, and the meditation does itself, keeping the field nondual, boundless, timeless, mere appearance. In that state the reckognition can happen. When God/The Absolute/The Totality of Indras Net "aligns" and "says yes", "you" get enlightened (the accident). At that point it is grace, Karma, brain chemistry, an act of all of Reality/the Universe/whatever one wants to call it. God/Being/Reality suddenly understanding itself in THAT perspective that is your mindstream of this life. And its impersonal, its not what you think what you are, but what you really are. And the fact that its impersonal is not bad at all... And if Absolute Reality "says": No. Then not today darling... Please more preparation for the "accident". Then, not today darling... Even with DMT. Ok, probably I have confused pretty much everybody with the twisted musings above, but maybe it is useful for some. Water by the River

funny, hm? When you hit yourself with a hammer on the knee that is also illusory. Same as with the separate-self that you mostly consider yourself to be during everday life (at least I assume). It hurts (not all the time, but regularly), and if you don't know how to switch that off and release the self-contraction, you are going to suffer. Illusion yes, but suffering. yes. And? You prefer the suffering over the bliss? Oh yes there is. It feels quite similiar what you get when to go for a trip. Except one doesn't need the psychedelic then. Dissolving the self-contraction/duality/suffering with on-board-devices, independend of the 5-MeO or whatever, and having a blissfull nondual state of infinite release. The visual field turning into mere appearance/clear light "hovering" in infinite consciousness. Ones true being, right here, right now. No more clouds of ignorance/self-contraction. The suffering IS the mechanism that never lets the separate-self or self-contraction stop seeking and suffering until it is dissolved in its True Being. After doing that long enough, there is a deep switching point of identity and access to this flow of bliss. Its called Full Enlightenment. Look forward to it! That is actually way better news of your(!) Potential than anything you wrote of in your post. It is your own potential, your True Nature. I am not telling you to do anything different (as practice) than what you are doing right now, but just consider to stop declaring heaven inexistent. You know, its a grave sin listed in the Catechism of the Catholic Church to declare heaven non-existant Water by the River

Yes. And when there are ever more Awakenings n+1, the real Awakening/Full Enlightenment hasn't happen yet. And this is a very beautiful and very true statement. That love/bliss/compassion is what stabilizes the shift into ones True Being. And where there is not much love/bliss/compassion... Water by the River

Get a glimpse of nonduality, suddenly we think we are enlightened, or think we know the truth, but in reality we dont, we just have egoic impressions of it, ultimately no one really knows, they only know the path, they may use perceptual concepts of allness, or nothingness, but ultimately if you "experience nonduality" you are lying to yourself in my opinion. the buddha also mentioned that all these are still perceptual realities from our egos, no matter how mystical or "nonexistent" your experience may be, until your actual system is cleared of its fear mechanisms which build the ego, and the concepts that comfort or should i say numb your issues which you are not reflecting, until your system is cleared of mechanisms which make your experience dual, you arent in enlightenment at all, you just got an energetic opening/glimpse. . look at any dude here who uses realizations as egoic masturbation, anyone who dealt with self esteem issues and such can see through the wowness and power trip of these types of experiences and this can be subtle perceptions in the subconcious aswell. because the people who grew out of it they know it ultimately stems from insecurities not yet dealt with, just being real. but as you go through more of life, you get triggered of your issues, and you grow, you shed, and you let go, and each egoic paradigm thats broken down, more and more depth of reality is realized, because you're going through a process of reflection and understanding, being more and more inclusive (love, word can have baggage though) and open to reality, yet also unclinged and indifferent, not numbed. my point being, forget about nondual experiences, use the experiences as guides for your path, but even that attachment to those guides will be dropped too at a certain point. Leo is fully right when he says that this is a process, no doubt about it.

I basically wrote the same here: in the post below. Linking to the same questions from months ago. No real answer also, besides some anecdotes abouts rats and icepicks. @Moksha, apparently (and actually) there is no counter-argument remaining concerning what you wrote. Basically, it boils down to the these two aspects: 1) Full Enlightenment = all is illusion, imagination and dream, n+1 (my post quoted above). The realization (all is illusion&dream&imagined) as such apparently is still considered as valid, although that is denied when claimed by Buddhist or "Nonduals" or whatevers, which are supposedly all still dreaming. Without giving any reasons for that, and which is contrary to your experience, and that of countless others having realized their True Nature. 2) Suffering continues until stable establishment of staying permanently in ones True Identity of being Infinite Impersonal Reality/Consciousness (or stable Full Enlightenment), and having the Illusion arising within Oneself. Which requires the complete transcendence/death of any separate-self identity. Apparently a hefty price to be paid. Maybe to hefty for some, surrendering all ones attachments and preferences. All would be so nice and well and lovely, but all these Buddhist rats and other horrible stuff manifesting as illusion in ones dream , apparently still with the potential to spoil the beauty of Absolute Reality Awakening. For me, it looks a bit like some like chasing ones own tail. And being a little bit less than happy if somebody points out that the tail & everything else IS already Ones True Being, and rather prefers to not join the chasing & delighting in the chase. To each his own & Caveat Emptor. Selling Water by the River

Look for yourself. There is nothing. Here are words appearing out of that. Here is a screen appearing out of that. Here is the mind trying to understand it. Here is the mind applying language in an attempt to communicate it. How can you communicate nothing, when language is invented to communicate something? It is a dead end. Every teaching you listen to, and every string of words you read, that tries to communicate nothing/everything, is what you are looking for, acting as if it is not. I haven't been on this forum for a couple of years, I just had an impulse to check out what is going on here. I see people from back then still spouting nonsense till this day. No one can really tell you what to do. I can't say that you should leave this forum and forget about all of this, because chances are you can't. I couldn't, until I did. But this is a dead end, and it will always be. Life doesn't come with a manual, you just have to live it. Every person on here is sitting behind a phone screen or computer screen typing in words, and some will think it means something. Some person could say "there is no one here, there is no one typing," alright, but if I tracked your IP address and flew to your house and shouted your name from outside your window. You would stop writing, get up out of your bed and look outside your window. I would then continue to provoke you to come outside, and we would have a street fight right then and there. Then, after I won, I would go inside your house, go to actualized.org on your computer and send a GIF of a monkey dancing to Leo with a link to this song: Then he would reach full enlightenment and we would all be saved!

"Everyone of these nondualist/Buddhist teachers who thinks he is enlightened is dreaming it and its not conscious that he's doing so. He tells himself that he's awake, he truly believes it" That is your assumption, and it is incorrect. There is no agency-arising left that identifies with "is enlightened" and which is still believed and not seen as dream, moving as illusion arising within Infinite Consciousness/Reality. There is no one left who believes he is awake. That is exactly what is seen through with Full Enlightenment. Enlightenment is the Realization that there is no separate anything, nevery was (only as illusion), and never will be. Only the Totality of Absolute Reality. Water by the River

Yes. Let us assume a few things as true (and see if they resonate): (1) that Reality ultimately is "good" (and not evil) and wants every being to finally realize its True Being. (2) Which (realizing True Being) luckily is the same as peace/bliss/happiness. (3) What is the ONLY way to ensure that? Suffering until realizing Ones True Being. At least suffering from time to time, to make beings keep searching and growing... Only Alternative to that is: happy ever after not knowing or realizing what one really is, or what Reality is. Forever. Sounds rather cruel to me.... It is some kind of mathematical-logical formula if we just work with these three assumptions (that is why I wrote if they resonate). If we assume that these three points (1) (2) (3) are true, there has to be sometimes suffering until Full Realization happens. And only the final thing (Full Realization, Deep Identity Level Shift of Full Enlightenment) delivers the peace of the transcedence of suffering. And its not bleak, empty, dead, nothing, or "personal minus". It is the Fullness of Reality, personal/character (plus) minus separation. The celebration of manifestation, but without attachment. The character then can grow to its full potential, fear gone, joy and celebration here and now. And the even better news is: One only illusory "leaving" ones True Nature and being separate. No"one" ever could really be separate. That is not possible in an Infinite Totality. It can only appear as such. The ILLUSION-arising of the separate-self within Oneself (True Self). So THAT is the ultimate criteria or compass if there is one: Suffering or not. Separate-Self Contraction (and Illusion/Ignorance) or not. An imaginary trip back home, after casting Oneself out into manifesting Infinite Realms of form and manifestation. Bon Voyage & lets don't forget to celebrate the ride back home. And lets never declare a stage as end-point that contains suffering. It only prolongs the way back home, until that illusion-mindset is also broken by suffering. Selling Water by the River She who is centered in the Tao can go where she wishes, without danger. She perceives the universal harmony, even amid great pain, because she has found peace in her heart. Only in being lived by the Tao can you be truly yourself. Approach it and there is no beginning; follow it and there is no end. You can’t know it, but you can be it, at ease in your own life. Just realize where you come from: this is the essence of wisdom - Tao Te Ching

Well, BazookaJesus is the most AWAKE, and Nobody is enlightened. Ok, enough kidding. Awakening: Basically, you can experience 95% of Nonduality/Mystical Experiences with a center/separate-self still not fully seen through/transcended. And that is what prevents fully realizing or Being Absolute Reality/Infinite Consciousness itself. You definitely can have Unity/Nonduality Experiences with some kind of separate-self (although often quite empty, ego/persona quite transcended) still well & alive. Full Enlightenment: When these last remnants of the separate self disfiguring True Nonduality (or ones True Nature of Infinite Reality itself) are seen through, transcended, suffering ends and grasping for experiences/insights/understandings end. Impersonal centerless Empty Boundless Eternal Infinite Consciousness/Reality. That which you and every being already is right now, can never not be, but are (maybe) not fully aware of. Semantic Challenge: Often Enlightenments and Awakenings are equated and/or confused. But most often, Enlightenment is considered an "end-state", an end of suffering. Understanding of relative stuff and exploration & the adventure of course can continue. But beyond Full Enlightenment there is only more relative stuff (form) to explore. The Absolute Reality has been understood or realized. Suffering is dramatically(!) reduced and the potential of Ones True Nature to fully end suffering is understood and takes over understanding/being what One really is is the hallmark of Full Enlightenment. More on the topic: And confusing Awakening and (Full) Enlightenment is confusing the road to more high-level-dreams (with some necessary illusion/ignorance/suffering) with the road to the Deep Identity Level Shift of Full Enlightenment, or the end of suffering. All has its time and place, and the point of the ride is the ride. But at some point, comming home is also wonderful. Beautiful Book: Coming Home: The Experience of Enlightenment in Sacred Traditions, Lex Hixon Bon Voyage Water by the River

There isn't one central authority governing the use of language pertaining to spirituality, so the words are used quite loosely and interchangeably by some, and for others enlightenment is ultimate while awakening may be an initial experience of spirituality. I tend to modify either term with "partially" or "fully" for clarity's sake. Then some people call a psychedelic experience as awakening. It may be an awakening, loosely speaking, but it doesn't mean it is a nondual awakening where you have permanently shifted into a state where you no longer experience "the center" (i.e. "I" is identified as the body or some bodily location, like point between your eyes.) After that state where you experience "the center" there are a bunch of intermediate states, where you progressively identify with local emptiness, universal emptiness, God/bliss, and ultimately all identification ceases and the subject-object duality is gone. You can call this full awakening or full enlightenment or whatever else you want. There are different names for this. Moksha, self-realization, sahaja samadhi, etc. (Of course, past that there is a period of years of integration, because personality habits have to unwind. A lot of shadow work takes place here.) So if you want a definition, enlightenment is the attainment of the "natural state" where conditioned notions of separateness are seen through and realization of The Absolute as the true reality is complete.

IT is available any time, and most of the time it is always there without doing anything. If the character gets annoying and tries to generate bad emotions via suffering (which has reduced tremendously anyway), "I" just look into it, see what "I" really am, what the "substance" of the character trying to close down/feel bad really is, and the bug is dead and transcended again. Goes from "oh, that is not good"-character-arising to a small voice somewhere in the background unable to grip attention, and the field again nondual and infinite without center. The arisings of the separate self just stop, don't get believed anymore, loose their hypnotic power, because it feels way better and the "choice" is there. Yet, my functional character works better than ever. Less filters, more intuition, much more bliss, love and compassion. What would it be worth if it wouldn't be always available? Its actually too good to be true, besides being true. @Arthogaan wrote that a bit more direct experience description is appreciated, which I understand. Which I don't often do, because here is already enough ego-bravado, so I tend to write more on the neutral and technical side. But at the same time, sometimes it is probably good to write a bit more about direct experience. Besides, when I write technical descriptions, I write it from own experience and understanding, and use the best sources I know to show how similiar the deep structure is over various systems and paths. Water by the River PS: And a more technical description, using an analogy: Before fully realizing what one really is (Impersonal Infinite Consciousness/Awareness/Nothingness without a second), one doesn't really know that 2 +2 is 4. One intuits maybe that it is more like 3,9 than 8,5. One intuits that it is eternal (always here), nondual, infinite, mere appearance (lets say thats 4.5). But its not fully impersonal, some individuality of being a separate "anything" (although already an aware nothing) being still there. Ones Deep Identity is not obviously fully it, because that Realization is still missing. Roger Thisdells Videos stage 4 and stage 5 are the best material I am aware of to describe that subtle (but absolutely deciding) difference. But once knowing ones True Nature (when it becomes really nondual, fully impersponal, yet at the same time really the Whole Reality), one knows exactly that 2 +2 is 4, always has been, always will be, and can't be different. There is no more doubt about. Couldn't be. Doubt is moving within Oneself, it doesn't make sense, one knows its structure as moving arising appearing (doubt-) thought. Reality is directly known and understood by BEING it. Infinite Consciousness/Reality understands/realizes its own essence/being. There is nothing else besides "it", and nothing else that is or could be aware. So it can only be known by being it, the boundless infinite nondual Totality. The first time realizing 2 + 2 is 4 is a direct and unmistakenable realization/experience into THAT which is (and was) always here and the case. The magic word is fully impersonal, fully empty, separate self fully transcended/dead/gone. That is the common denominator of all Full Enlightenment Experiences/Realization descriptions. They all use different surface language, that is the deep structure element in all of them. If that is missing, it is one of the preliminary Enlightenment/Awakening Experiences on the path leading to the Full Realization/Shift. And after knowing/realizing 2+2 is 4, that knowing is always available in case one gets sloppy and the character tries to create some confusion or suffering. I look into the character-arisings, see there Nature/Substance, which is the same unnameable Suchness of Everything, of Reality, and 2+2 is 4, the character bug is dead again, and doesn't cause suffering. So in that way, it is always available (it is and was there all along anyway), and one reorients the whole character to constantly stay in that. In Ken Wilbers Words: From Peak Experience to Plateau to Permanent (which holds for all transformation stages). But once 2 + 2 = 4 is known, then the separate self character just burns like ice in the desert. Maybe that is a bit helpful. PS PS: And of course, lets not forget, only @Bazooka Jesus is AWAKE. The ONE and ONLY.

Yes. Let me allow to hijack the post Beyond the "no-self" of no biographical self/ego self there are some more "encompassing" "higher" no-selfs. Or better said: Some stages of much more empty no-selves. First personality/biographical self/"ego" goes (1) then time goes: Always here Mind, time is just a concept (2) Then the locatedness of being in the body for example goes: one is the whole visual field, or beginning nonduality (3) then that becomes infinite. Anything that could appear appears in boundless Reality/Infinite Consciousness. (4) Then we have personality/egoless (1), timeless (2), boundless/nondual (3) and infinite (4). All of these are Awakenings/Enlightenments. But not the Full Enlightenment/Waking Up. But then there is even a murky no-self still there: It is nothing, totally empty, but still some individuality/separation still there, moving as I-thought/I-feeling on Reality/Oneself. This here: IN that state (1)+(2)+(3)+(4), when all last traces of individuality are seen moving within onself (that takes time), then the Big Bang or Waking Up or Full Enlightenment can happen, where one actually becomes Reality, no more questions left. And Infinite Absolute Reality/Infinite Consciousness/Nothingness can be described as (True) No-Self (since no individuality is left splitting Reality in two), or as Self (because all possible worlds appear in it). Then You ARE Absolute Reality (everything that shows or could ever appear, and all beings/perspectives), but no longer confuse a separate individual part for your true self. I have written about that before in previous posts, one can search for examle if one is so inclined for Basis Enlightenment in my posts. The problem quite often here on this forum, and with the effect of some of Leos teachings: Thinking one has realized No-Self, while one has NOT achieved True No Self, but some of the preliminary versions of No-Self (see above), boosted by psychedelics, and including a lot of higher realm stuff accessed with that. Nothing too bad with that, if it is just a step/stage, is just not the end of the story, and doesn't end suffering. Or worse: Not even having had the Awakenings (1)-(4), and just conceptually boosting the separate self and equating it with God/Reality. Problem of these stages: Instead of finally transcending/killing the separate self, these moves boost it. And most important: Only @Bazooka Jesus is awake. I mean, come on, that mother of declaration of AWAKE can not be topped, so I think that is something we can all agree on Selling Water by the River PS: To make it a bit more practical: Ever dreamt you were somebody/something completely different? Or dreamt of being just an empty camera not self-reflective at all, just watching, thinking and reflecting nothing? That is pretty near. Infinite Consciousness is totally empty, just aware. Can take any feeling/thinking of being anything, anyone, anybody. It is empty, impersonal, so that it is compatible to any mindstream. "IT" is already the Awareness of all Beings. YOU! Already. But not what you think you are. Only an empty Awareness can be in the perspectives/mindstreams of other beings/perspectives, not the "loaded" mindstream of a being that still feels separate (has ego-arisings the cause the illusion of being something specific/separate). Imagine being somebody/something completely different. An Alien. A cat. And YOU, your Awareness is still there. And nothing really is lost if such a shift were to happen. So nothing is lost, just the illusion that all the thinking/feeling brings, moves, in you. And besides this Awareness/Nothingness, nothing is, was, ever will be. THIS is also all appearances, Consciousness appearing as appearances, nondual. IT is Reality itself. And to fully get/understand that, ALL identity has to go. Impersonal, Fully Empty Awareness. Nondual and infinite, timeless, always here, never not possible being not here. Anything possible necessarily appearing in IT/YOU. And the True One/You are still there... Impersonal. Silent. Infinite. Aware. Timeless. Containing all appearances. Nothing besides it. One without a second. Reality itself.

we all know the pointings of all the religious texts is towards this non-duality which is confused but investigating that further to find the true-er meaning... as bible/quran say that do good and then you will get heaven and live there eternally heaven = enlightenment / end of the Ego/personal self so once 'someone' gets enlightenment - will 'he/she' now eternally exist in that blissful state after the death of 'their' body? like when mooji or e.tolle's body physically dies in this world, their now 'awakened soul' will not re-attach to another human baby form or something and have to live out life? will that 'awakened soul' just exist (we cannot say what, but will it not be reborn again? live eternally in heaven that is) ? yes, i know before/after enlightenment - chop wood carry water. but wanted to explore this point. another thing is this, it seems "pointless" in a way that if in my current living life, i get enlightenment and then live out the rest of it in a non-dual state only then to be reborn as another human avatar and live a life of suffering again it does seem imperative that enlightenment should be the end of the illusory world finally, i also firmly believe that the mystical/magical/fairtale version of heaven is there to be had as well - if an abiding muslim prays 5 times a day, does good, harms no one, lives selflessly (while still in a egoic mind) i.e. does good deeds, isn't bad to anyone etc. then she/he will attain heaven after their 'death' just like a person experiences their respective beliefs during a psychedelic trip or during a near-death experience - same way upon the death of their physical body, they will experience something in line with their belief - a heaven with flowing rivers of milk, fruits, women, whatever gets you excited i believe that the ending of the personal self ego is the highest level but living out this life of illusion as a pious, kind person such that your soul/consciousness is not guilty and is at peace would equal to getting the next level of existence within the illusion and that would be heaven ... or hell if one holds that belief and they have done "wrong" according to them for which their soul is not at peace (eternal bad trip after death awaits those)

When I read threads here I see a few members that are truly great, they seem to know everything and have an aura of enlightenment about them. However, it still feels like they are refusing to make the very last step to finally become fully enlightened, like they hold something back. Like they are 99% enlightened and not aim any higher that that. At very rare occasions though, I see members who are all in so to speak, 100% , I often notice when facing those posts already after reading the first sentence. I can't nail what's special about them, they just are. They just feel so incredible transparent, honest and full of integrity. I feel their words digs in to my body and deliver silence and truth. What I notice about these posters is that they are not interesting in socialising or sharing ideas back and forth, they often just post one single post and that's it, then they are gone for good. In a way, all of those "One post wonder"- members had a dark picture of life. But it didn't felt dark at all reading them, rather it felt liberating to read them. A few of them decided to commit suicide, others have chosen to stay but they know there is nothing to gain in doing so. They just let the lucid dream continue, but for no reason really. The reason why I don't feel sad reading those dark posts is because I recognise how they desire REAL enlightenment in a way. And if you want REAL enlightenment, you can't really desire any aspect of worldly life, not even "enlightenment" within a body mind, and that explain the dark nature of their posts(which paradoxically aren't dark at all). They were not satisfied to reach a point were they saw through duality. They wanted more(same as less), they were not satisfied with a lucid dream within an agent lost in maya, they wanted FULL awakening. And think about it, first you don't recognise reality as a dream, you believe it is real, then you recognise it's nothing but a dream(maya). You're having a lucid dream by now, but that's not really to be fully awake. If you have a dream at night, and start realising you're in the middle of a dream, you might find it fascinating to be in a lucid dream for a while, but after that initial bliss and freedom of realising you're in a lucid dream, don't you want to quit the game all together, folding up to ten and become fully awake? I can't see how you can stay within a body mind and be fully enlightened, even if you don't identify at all with the body mind that carries you around. Can you? Also, at my most blissful in moments in life, when I really enjoy life the most, thoughts like "Nothing could be better then to be physical dead" have come to my mind. Those thoughts only come when I really experience great happiness in life, I think that is because the supreme creator know that I can handle the truth at that time. Those kind of thoughts never come me, when life isn't that good, then I think of a new car, a new carrier, a new girlfriend or anything other superficial. Elaborate.