Forestluv

@GGG I would make a distinction between forced celibacy and voluntary celibacy. You seem to be referring to forced celibacy within religions. A religion might view sex as a mortal pleasure that is impure, sinful and unholy. Thus, a clergyman that is celibate may be viewed as more pure and holy. It can also be a way for a religion to exert control. For example, if we want to control the sex activities of the community, we can say that sex out of wedlock is immoral. Then we can point to the clergyman as an example and say "Look at this is a holy man of god that doesn't have sex". Those that are having casual sex can now be judged and shamed. At least that's how it worked in the Catholic church I grew up in. . .

I try to be careful with seeking desirable states. I've found that relaxing the mind and body can be helpful, yet it can also be used for avoidance of what I don't want to face. There are times when it is beneficial to sit in discomfort, anxiety and fear - without seeking relief or to change it. We may seek relief/avoidance by our external environment (changing scenary, doing an activity) or we can seek relief/avoidance internally through thought stories. . . There are times when the demon I feared most approached me and I just stood there in terror facing the demon. It didn't eat me and I was allowed exploration and release of the underlying fear/insecurity. Yet I've also found it beneficial at times to quiet the mind and allow space for easy, peaceful feelings.

Another way to look at it.. . Imagine your best friend was going through this. How would you lovingly help your friend?

It’s not a lack of response, it is the nature of the response. If I have a perspective I am attached to and I want to protect it, I will get into a defensive posture. I will want to debate. I will want others to prove I am wrong. I will want others to understand me. There will be an energy of conflict. An energy of who is right and who is wrong. This orientation will keep me in a contracted mindset and hinder my development. This is a very different orientation than when I am open and curious about the perspective of others. Here, I genuinely want to learn about their experience and pov. Yet this isn’t just in theory, it is also in direct experience. In the context of green, this means letting go of my own male-centered pov and learning about other POVs. For example, I volunteered in a psychiatric hospital that was predominantly women. I learned a lot about the experience and perspectives of marginalized/ostracized/stigmatized people. I didn’t enter with the attitude of “I know all this and I’m right”. I went in with a humble, curious mindset which allowed growth. Currently, I am serving on a diversity committee at my job. I am the only male on the committee. I am learning a lot from the womens’ experience and perspectives. When we have our meetings I’m not in a mindset that I understand everything and want them to understand me. I don’t talk over the women and “mansplain”. I don’t tell them how it is and that they need to re-listen to what I say 10 times for them to understand. When they question my POV, I don’t respond that they are disrespecting me and judging me. This mindset would prevent me from learning from others’ experience and POVs. It would also create inter-personal conflict/division and would prevent me from forming meaning human connections with mutual empathy and connection. This gets to the heart of green development. It goes way beyond intellectual thinking and argumentation. People have been reaching out to you, yet not to debate and argue with you. . .

Several people have been trying to reach out to you in this thread, yet you don’t seem open. If someone wants to stay within their paradigm, they will.

This is a common dynamic that keeps a mind contracted within their own pov. All the effort goes into trying to defend one’s own pov and trying to control a narrative. There is an unwillingness to let go of one’s own pov and resistance to learn and understand another pov. A common way for a mind to stay contracted is to say things like “you don’t understand my pov. Go back and read it 10 times until you understand it”. This is resistance to development. In the context of this thread, resistance to understanding a green pov on gender inequality. One aspect of green development is to begin to consider the experience and POV of other groups. Especially people in marginalize/oppressed/ostracized/stigmatized groups. In doing so, one can expand their awareness and understanding. This in turn can lead to empathy and desire fir a more inclusive and equal society.

Sure. It is the perspective of a dominant group wanting to maintain unequal power dynamics over a marginalized/oppressed group. There is an unwillingness to let go of one’s own self-centered perspective and unwillingness to consider, learn and understand the perspective of the marginalized/ostracized group. Notice how all your effort is being put into getting your point across and being understood. You have put no effort in trying to understand others’ pov. You have no desire or curiosity to learn and understand the other’s pov. As a result, you will have very little understanding of others’ point of view. You will keep dismissing it with phrases like “You don’t understand what I wrote. Go back and re-read it again”.

“As green, women should let men live the way they want to live unless there is some dire injustice upon them. Read this line 3 times, or you might misunderstand.” This is a great example of blue/orange resisting green. And it was spoken from a man to a women, which adds in three scoops of green cringe.

@captainamerica I would not do visualizations. That is abstract and will not ground you. I think it’s better to look at your hand or do reality checks (like touching your fingertip to your palm). Even something like dropping a pencil several times. This can help you realize the hallucinatory thought story and bring you back into Here and Now.

@Nirvanalight You are every sage that has lived. You are The Source that all sages tapped into.

This thread has run its course.

Here, it doesn't seem like there is direct realization that all is God (including YOU). Consider the statement "our suffering was also due to the will of god". This has a "me" that is suffering and an external god that has a will. . . It doesn't matter if one throws in an "all is god". The orientation is a "me" and an separate external god that has a will. Being oriented toward perceiving an external god and saying "all is god" will create confusion because it is conflating absolute and relative. It's like saying "All is god. Why can't I know god's will"? . . If you want to work with a construct of an external god, do so. Yet mixing absolute and relative will muddy the waters and cause confusion.

Great points. I love running for the mystical ISness of simply running in nature - with no agenda or goal. . . Sometimes people ask me why I run. "Do you run to lose weight? To get in shape? To build endurance? Lower cholesterol levels?". . . I found this confusing and funny. It wold be like asking "Why do you breath?". . . Just because that's what I do. . .

I wonder how common this dynamic is. . . . A person may have some underlying predispositions to magic, yet they are conditioned with hardcore atheism and rationalism that blocks/masks the underlying potential.

I think it can be a legit "spiritual practice". Imagine having a master spiritual running monk, like the running monks of Mt. Hiei. . .

"What if I questioned enlightenment in enlightenment itself?" You would enter an inter-dimensional cosmic strange loop maze. As you pass the Gift of Quantum Vacuum, tell Space Kangaroo that S-Luv says "Hi".

Threads merged. Please do not start multiple threads on this topic. Post thoughts on this topic here. Thank you.

Different people are likely to have different pre-dispositions and abilities yet those that have spiritually gifted have not always lived charmed, magical lives. To me, that sounds like a Hollywood movie script. Regarding "paranormal" abilities, it does seem that some people are more sensitive to their environment since they were children, yet others can develop it. As well, "paranormal" abilities are just one aspect of reality. Sure, they are sexy - yet that's not "it" - its within "it". As well, some people are more in tune with certain practices. I went to buddhist/meditation groups for over 20 years and sucked at it. People around me were having mystical experiences within a year or two. I kept thinking there was something wrong with me and I wasn't doing it right. I remember esoteric Dharma talks about the ineffable transcendent nature of no-self. Huh???? They would say things like "When the person drinks the tea, it is not the person drinking the tea". Then the group would smile and nod. Someone else would say "Yes, and the tea drinks the tea". And people would nod approvingly. I'd be like "Can someone please just speak in normal English and tell me what tf this is all about?". I just didn't have a pre-disposition for meditation. And I don't have a pre-disposition for Yoga. . .Or Kundalini energy. The closet I got was running solo in nature. That was my strongest resonance but I never explored it spiritually, because it didn't count as a spiritual practice. That's what people told me. . . I actually had many mild mystical experiences while running and dismissed them as "runners high". I would enter a mystical space running in nature, return home to my cushion and sit - hoping for a mystical experience. . . And the first time I took a psychedelic, it was full-on resonance - mystical experiences, insights and the paranormal. Yet other people don't resonate with psychedelics, just like I didn't resonate with "the tea drinks the tea" dharma talk. Perhaps I have predispositons to psychedelics, yet not meditation. Different people resonate differently with reality. I was an average kid with no special abilities, yet people told me I was an "old soul" a lot. I didn't even know what that meant and thought it was kinda stupid. Perhaps their souls saw something. Who knows?

@Annonymous Entering nondual states can be uncomfortable at first. You may have pre-dispositions that allow nondual entry. I would not turn it into a big dramatic story. The ego loves to over-dramatize. . . Get curious. It's not a bad thing. Explore. Get into nature, let go and let it happen. . . Rather than repress it, learn to work with it. If you are driving a car, you obviously don't want to enter a full nondual state. Learn how to dial it down a bit. . . As well, the body has wisdom If the ego dissolves, it's not like the body is going to strip down naked, run around outside screaming and jump into a cold lake. The body is capable of operating fine without the ego playing a cowbell in the background.

@The Don Some people find setting an intention to be helpful. Yet it's important to do it in a humble, genuine manner - without any agenda or expectation. If the ego tries to control the trip, it can be a rough ride. For example, an intention might be "Universe, please show me what love is during this trip". As well, if you spend 1-2 weeks prior to the trip contemplating and self-inquirying love - it can orient the energetics toward love. This doesn't guarantee the trip theme will be about love, yet it increases the chances. As well, there could be some tough love lessons as well as feel-good love lessons. It is good you are open to difficult lessons, yet also be open to blissful lessons as well. . The three main factors you have control of heading into a trip are dosage, setting and mindset. Set yourself up for a positive trip and then let go and surrender to it.

This is still an overstatement: "I can't know for sure what is going to happen when I have my first Psychedelic trip" A more accurate statement would be "I have no freaking clue what is going to happen when I have my first Psychedelic trip". For all you know, it will be the most blissful experience of your life. . . Yet if you keep repeating the mantra that it will be a "bad experience" over and over again, you will increase the chance it will be a "bad experience" - not because of the problematic childhood, but because of the mantra you keep repeating. It is a LOA thing.

I think you make a really good point here. Many minds get immerse in concepts and those concepts get transcended. In a sense those concepts are "dropped" and that is a deep spiritual teaching. Once one reaches the shore, drop the boat. If you see buddha on the road, kill him. . . Yet in another context, concepts can still have value as form. There just isn't the same attachment / identification to the concepts anymore. The other thing this brings up for me is the idea of "arriving". "Now that I have arrived, I can drop the concepts that allowed me to arrive here". This gets tricky, because in a sense it's true - yet in another sense it can be a contraction in a new transcendent area. At the human level, growth is unlimited and concepts serve as maps. The map is not the territory, yet maps are territory and are useful. We may have a map that helps us to get to New York City. Once we have arrived, we can discard the map and be in the NYC territory. Yet this doesn't mean that maps no longer have value. There are maps of New York City that are helpful. As well, NYC is just one city (facet). There are maps to other facets such as Chicago, Prague, Rome, Melbourne etc. that are helpful.

If a construct of "enlightenment" means "a someone with a lack of materialism and orgies", then no. If a construct of "enlightenment" allows for materialism and orgies, then you betcha.

You can create any definition you want for "nice guy". Based on your definition of "nice guy", it sounds very unpleasant to be a "nice guy". I have created a different definition of "nice guy" than you and it is much more pleasant.

Yes, that is great direct experience. Importantly, the insight wasn't in a nihillistic sense either. That is key. Nihilism is a half-baked realization and your experience was more thoroughly baked. For me, the experience is like an absence of meaning rather than meaningless. It feels like the experience comes prior to me assigning meaning. What is there prior to me assigning meaning? It's just ISness happening. . . And the absence of meaning in ISness makes it so darn meaningful to me. . . These are the paradoxes that are maddeningly beautiful. Duality often gets a bad rap because it is associated with so much human suffering. Yet duality is so freaking beautiful as well. Duality allows contrast - it allows form in formless, it allows Alive-ness. It's magical and beautiful.