kieranperez

@Leo Gura one thing that’s interesting, since I brought up Shunyamurti and his theory of devolution, is that when he’s been asked (like on Buddha at the Gas Pump) to elborate on the time span of humanity’s devolution is tens of thousands of years. I’ve read stuff about when he’s asked about all the slavery in say Buddha’s time, he’d say that that’s not far back enough in time. At that point in my mind I’m like “we don’t even have real solid records of this stuff man. Where are you getting this? We don’t even know if people like Confucius or Christ were historical people in yet we know the detailed psychology of humanity 10,000+ years ago?”

Be a systems thinker

Look at the people who actually candyflip. I’ve seen hundreds of people candyflip at this point. If you’re trying to find a magic cocktail to enlightenment, then by all means knock yourself out. See how that goes. These people who candyflip “just want to explore other ends of the universe,” and are again, just chasing egoic titiliating experience in the name of spirtuality. What are you ACTUALLY looking for? You have 5-MeO-DMT that shoots you straight to God and as far as I’m concerned, deeper into God the more you use it over time. You have other chemicals and substances like LSD, psilocybin, AL-Lad, and some 2c class chemicals and so forth that can enhances Contemplation and even be used for getting in touch with intuition and if you learn enough about them, can use them for psychotherapeutic purposes on yourself. So again, I ask you, what are you really looking for? Is God not enough to please baby ego? You’re simply looking for experience. I’m not saying anything is wrong or bad. I’m saying you’re chasing experience and making something more complex than it has to be just for the sake of making it complex. That’s very different. I don’t really care or have a moral issue with what you do or how people use psychedelics. If you’re at a party and what not and just want to fuck around, go knock yourself out. Candyflipping is (dangerous yet) awesome for that. I have no problem with that. I’ve had hundreds of friends candyflip at raves. Psychedelics don’t need to be used for strictly spiritual purposes. You can use it to have fun and experience radically different states of consciousness. But call it for it is. If you’re chasing experience in the name of seeking Truth, you need someone to call you on your shit.

It's funny to me because I was watching a whole Vice video basically about the people I called my friends in the San Francisco Bay Area Rave Scene but in the context of a nature community in Canada. To me, yeah these people have their problems, but they're definitely more evolved than Orange. This whole video, now knowing things like Spiral Dynamics and having learned more about consciousness work, enlightenment, personal development, and just life in general since having left the Bay Area Rave Scene in the last couple years, really makes me look back with a giggle about how when I started going to these underground raves with these people I resisted these people in the beginning. Granted, this stage does have it's limitations and I think one of the hardest parts about my development of Green was that I would be with all these Green people in this Green environment (going to illegal venues for warehouse parties, camping out through weird obscure map points in the middle of nowhere where you literally needed coordinates to get to the party and then camp out for a weekend, and so forth) and then after dancing my face off from 8PM-8AM (totally sober and clean by the way) I would go back home to my Stage Orange/Blue house (what @Leo Gura accurately calls secular moralism in his Stage Orange video) and my stage Orange interests of pursuing athletics and being all dogmatic over atheism and debating and all that nonsense. The rave scene really is just a party oriented version of this entire community depicted in this Vice video. We all know about the excesses of Green and that was why I had to stop partying with these people because it just became a place where we really couldn't be honest and actually authentic but I do feel that this is a very necessary stage. I think what a lot of Green people don't realize is how much they operate from a place of lack and utter insecurity. This "dose" of Green, as weird and contradicting as it may sound, is empowered from a sense of disempowerment. A lot of these people form these kinds of groups, communes, etc. because they never felt accepted by the society they grew up in which is why this heavy level of Green emphasizes feelings so much. They just want to be heard and be allowed to speak and not be lectured and moralized to and that was actually a very big part I got out of the rave scene. I could vent my frustrations in feelings that I closed in for long and so deeply. Heavy Green can really provide a space where you can let all of this out. If you've ever been to a rave you know what I'm talking about. Being able to let out all you feel onto a dance floor with a dozens, hundreds, or thousands of other people who aren't judging you for the way you express yourself and they actually encourage and embrace you. I was one of those guys who "went hard all night" in the sense that I literally danced with as much emotional expression as I could and people told me all the time (pretty much every event I went to) that they felt me. The problem though with this kinda heavy Green though when it forms communities is that this compassion, mutual acceptance and respect becomes this interesting "unspoken moralism". You can feel that other that a lot of these people do this from a sense of how they're supposed to be compassionate and be accepting of all. You can sense in the inauthenticity which is why real unconditional love isn't able to flourish in these kind of communities becomes all this stuff comes from a sense of lack so you end up acting out all this out rather than it coming from true authentic motives. Also there's a lot of projections and strong shadows in this kind of heavy Green. Nonetheless, Green is superior to Orange and Blue. People at this level if you're at say a party aren't trying to out posture each other like if you go to some Stage Orange party where it just becomes men trying to act out other men and women outdo other women. If you're really head centered and very logic and rationally motivated (or at least believe yourself to be so ) and you live in the United States, I highly suggest you go to a few raves or some burner events or campouts. Exposing yourself to these people will allow them to allow you to finally express yourself in ways you may be too proud yet insecure to admit you're afraid to express. You can't really embrace other humans lovingly without going through Green. For those who don't know what I'm talking about: Stage Green (permitted and legal) Rave - btw that’s me when I was like 17 back in 2012 @ 1:50 LOL (I cringe looking back) Some of you Orange people, prepare to get triggered by Green parties

Chop wood, carry water. After ecstasy, the laundry.

Buuuut LEO! Enlightenment says I’m already the cake!!!

Only people I know who candyflipped were noncomformist escapist ravers when I was part of the Bay Area Underground Rave scene. You’re wasting your time chasing experience. People who candyflip are just looking for a good time seeking egoic experiences in the name of spirituality.

One of the things I love about all this consciousness work and spirituality is actually looking at it's history in different human cultures. I'm curious as to why there's so much ancient information and history on non-dual traditions and particularly sages in India, Middle East, Ancient Egypt, Ancient Greece, China, Tibet, Europe, Japan, etc. but I can't find anything on any real big sages in the entire continent of South America, and older North America. Any reason for this? Any leads on stuff or people I might be missing?

For example: Hypnotherapy Psychoanalyis Psychedelpy (gonna make that my own so I’m going to just go with it lol) Jungian psychology I know you can gain things like life coaching certificates but can you develop a therapy practice without actually having a degree in college? My overall long term goal is to become a mystic/sage and want to Ashram in the coming decades but I really need to learn how to heal people too and develop practice and momentum doing that. I know that this was possible in prior decades like in the 70s but I imagine that there’s probably tighter legal stuff than there was back then.

I really felt this documentary. This is not some educational thing on shamanism. This about a young man who over the years kept following society and parents and what he was programmed from day 1 what he truly thought he intuitively wanted out of himself and out of life and as the years moved on he felt more and more dead to himself and to life. Just the way they presented the early stages of this documentary really moved me personally because it really grounded me back to where I used to be just a few years ago. Waking up every single day feeling like there's no point not only to get out of bed but no reason not to put your head on railroad tracks and just begging for a train to run over your neck. Just the look I saw in his eyes from that time really moved me because that was me. I remember he said, "I'm not prepared to live the rest of my life this way," and I was about to lose it inside and cry because if I hadn't acidentally stumbled on some of @Leo Gura's videos and that one silly 26 minute Sam Harris guided meditation with some self-inquiry at the end, I wouldn't have the vision I have now and the clarity and also confidence that spirituality has given me. I think this documentary is not really so much about shamanism itself as it is showing that this way that we live in the modern Western world is a life and isn't sustainable. Sometimes you need to almost kill yourself to really get out of the excesses, assumptions, etc. in order to really move forward. We need to be alive and not dead as result of culture, society, and no longer be dead to ourselves. The goal of life is life itself.

He just gave you the answer. Have the enlightenment experience. Nobody is disagreeing with Ralston. Ralston said clearly in that interview “love is a relative experience.” However, That also depends what you’re thinking and how you’re framing “love” when you talk about it. If you ask “what is God,” to someone like Leo who finds that to be appropriate term then he will tell you God is everything and you. If you ask the Buddha “what is God,” he will tell you there is no God there is only consciousness and mind. Both are right. Both are interpreting the same realization under different lens and some make finer nuances in their answers. This why you have to sit down and do the work yourself and have the experience yourself and not keep trying to validate answers with others.

Did you ever notice the reaction from that movie? How patriotic everyone felt? Man... I was shocked in myself just how much that movie triggered a deep blue in me and in the way they did it. It’s pretty crazy. Good movie and very very blue and very good at bringing out blue in someone.

This whole notion that the field of psychology is some innocent honest ethical system is just downright wrong. I’m sorry. Maybe it’s because you’re only reading one half of the story, maybe it’s because you haven’t suffered from crippling issues that failed to be addressed or solved AT ALL by psychiatry and psychology whether it be from ADHD to almost committing suicide to knowing people personally or whatever, but this notion that the psychotherapeutic and psychiatric system has their shit handled is just not true. These systems often don’t help people because their understanding is limited and also because this system is extremely corrupt, particularly the FDA. Hell look at how they treat psychedelics. Did you read why Reich was looked up and had his books burned? Because he started publishing “orgone energy” (or prana) and because his practices were rather “unorthodox”. “Unorthodox” doesn’t mean anything if it actually helps people but if you have certain knowledge which your government system doesn’t want spread (like the case in the USA with psychedelics) then don’t be surprised if they bust down your doors and shut you down. If you think what I’m saying is that NO ONE gets help from psychotherapy in some way shape or form than you’re mistaking what I’m saying but this notion that the FDA is some trustworthy and honest noteworthy federal agency is just fucking false. The entire system of psychiatry alone is incredibly corrupt and it’s honesty shameful and disgusting. Maybe you haven’t had doctors keep pressing you on pills because you were fortunate not to be in that situation to understand. Yeah you can read “documented cases” till the cows come home but that doesn’t justify how ineffective and dysfunctional and how lacking psychotherapy and psychiatry is in things like stage yellow systems thinking which is extremely needed because millions of people get fucked over and sometimes even killed because of shallow low grade solutions, cover up of symptoms rather than attacking root causes, a corrupt and ineffective system, pushing pills that more often than not aren’t needed that can totally change a fuck up one’s biochemistry that become extremely addictive with horrendous side effects that rarely work long term (years/decades).

@winterknight all the stuff I’ve listed to you aren’t gimmicky witch doctor stuff. Reichian therapy, transpersonal psychology, shadow work, etc. are not some self help fads. You realize most therapy people go through doesn’t really get to the root issues? I’ve had (and I’m not using myself as some sole example) therapy from regular counseling, DBT/CBT therapy to CBT/DBT therapy “intensives” at UCSF, been prescribed at least 20 different psych meds, psychoanalysis, etc. for 10+ years and most of these therapists and what not just waste people’s time and money and don’t tend to get the root of anything not change much. If anything that’s changed it’s mostly just a better way of articulating and conceptualizing one’s problems. The psychotherapy and psychiatry systems are extremely broken and downright problematic systems, and in a lot of cases, downright criminal in A LOT of cases. So I don’t care much to defend this corrupt and dysfunctional system by saying people need more standard education on these matters as if that’s cuts it close at all. The whole legal system in it of itself is fucked up and does a huge disservice to patients with psychological issues from legitimate mental disorders to even more mild issues. Much less the lack of deep understanding by many (and as far as I’m concerned and have seen, most) of the practitioners. I’m also not saying I promote some sort of system where anyone and everyone can just buy and go through some 1-4 week process of becoming therapist as though it’s that simple. However this is why I’m asking because “psychotherapy” is an extremely broad label. It can be something that confines to your profession where you practice just psychoanalysis, to someone like Elliot Hulse who at his seminars does a lot of Reichian therapy and other stuff along those lines, to people who facilitate holotropic breathwork (which is a legitimate and powerful psychotherapy practice right there and can be more effective than just sitting down with a therapist), to someone who does (unlicensed yet effective) nondual energetic therapy with substances 5-MeO-DMT like Martin Ball, etc. It doesn’t really seem like you have much of an answer as to where that line is drawn in terms of legality when it comes to practice and facilitation.

@winterknight I’m not trying to stick with psychoanalysis specifically, I’m speaking more broadly in terms of psychological healing through a variety of different mediums. Whether this be through transpersonal psychology techniques, shadow work, reichiab therapy, etc. Are these different? If so, what is the distinction you’re making?

Do you think it’s out of integrity to start a business that’s merely a stepping stone to the ultimate life purpose to handle finances and escape wage slavery? I sometimes feel like “I need to sort my survival out first and foremost. It doesn’t need to be THE ONE.” In yet I hear what you say about how much you resented your first business because of how out of integrity you were while running it. So I really feel sleazy whenever I even feel/think about starting a business that’s just about money and me because it feels like I know i need to go straight towards my life purpose but starting this other business is like turning right and I’m afraid I’m just going to get sucked into that.

@winterknight how do you explain then Zen Masters even in the USA who have learned and now employ shadow work with people? That right there is psychotherapy and a very necessary component for spiritual work that as we can imagine, these Zen Masters didn’t go to school for this. Integral Zen & Mondo Zen by Doshin Roshi and Juno Kelly Roshi and Genpo Roshi are perfect examples of this.

Change your structure of motivation. Just the way your framing this is a big reason why you’re still this way. You’re trying to change your life by whipping yourself for being some weakling. Positive motivation and vision is what you need? Why do you want to lose weight? To avoid being some fat guy that people point and cringe at? Or to feel light and full of energy you didn’t know you had? Or is it to eat food that you feel great about yourself for eating rather than feel full of shame and guilt?

You can’t understand consciousness, god, metaphysical matters through logic. There’s nothing logical about what’s true. There’s nothing logical about you not existing. Science cannot and will not discover consciousness, God, etc. This work is supposed to not make sense. Existence itself has nothing to do with what you assume it to be. You’re trying to dig a massive hole with a fork when you need a drill and a shovel. Or like someone trying to become the best basketball player merely by reading about basketball. All the spiritual traditions match up if you can read in between the lines. How is it, that all these traditions and sages never had contact with each other seem to all be talking about the same fundamental reality despite the different contextual frameworks? How is it you seem to assume your sense of self but when you get down to it, every answer you have about yourself really isn’t you and is just a conceptual idea of who you think you are? Hell, even the materialist paradigm/philosophy itself defeats its very assumption. Even if you are made up of quarks and strings, well, everything else under that same paradigm and set of assumptions would say that everything else in existence would be made up of strings and quarks so really, what’s the difference between you and the toilet you shit in? You assume that’s all he does. You miss the part in his videos where he actually does the fucking practice. Sit your ass on the cushion and do the practice. No one owes you explanations and logical proofs or the truth. Either you want to know what’s real and true and you’re willing to do the work or you’re not. It’s that simple. People devote their entire life to discovering this through difficulties you can’t even imagine. You have endless amounts of resources and tools at your disposal. Books (great ones on Leo’s booklist), psychedelics (which have been recommended on here), all the theory you need, even pretty good explanations of this stuff (at least as good as it gets when it comes to truths that can’t be comminicated). Either you want to know who and what you are or you don’t and just want to assume your reality like you always have and have an assumed reality or you can be one of the 0.01% who actually know who they are. I suggest the latter because an assumed life is an ignorant life, and an ignorant life is a wasted life.

@winterknight my life purpose in the coming decades is going to need to include healing. I completely disagree that this needs to be a therapist specific thing. Most spiritual teachers in fact need an understanding of psychotherapy to even make their teachings for the people that work with and under them more effective. Hell, you know this. You know how beneficial something like psychoanalaysis is this day in age in conjunction with spiritual work in order to really help people because a lot of people can’t even do serious hardcore spiritual because of psychological baggage and trauma. This is more of a systemic issue that needs to be addressed. This makes spiritual work too isolated. This is the problem with having all these separate specialists and fields in the modern stage Orange world. It doesn’t allow for a cohesive all encompassing systemic practice. Instead we have to jump around and through a bunch of hoops and make a million niches. Which creates all the expensive and tedious need to see so many different doctors, service providers, etc. I’m not trying to “cut corners.”

Because I know this was possible back in say the 70s but I guess there are tighter restrictions now? I mean, how does someone like for instance Tony Robbins do what he does then? He incorporates a lot from different schools of psychology and psychotherapeutic practices and schools both in his events and people individually and has for decades.

Can one become a licensed hypnotherapist without a college degree? This honestly made my day. The improvision and innovation part I think is absolutely necessary for me. Especially since I’m 23 and living at home with a in SF with no college degree. It’s so hard to backtrack something like this. And plan forward. Paricularly with where I’m at in life. It feels like the monumental impossible thing, paticulary as a wage slave.

@winterknight I was asking about a college degree. I’m asking if one can still be certified and licensed without going to college. Like, can one be licensed in hypnotherapy, psychoanalysis, etc. like can be licensed in life coaching?

I honestly think the thing I admire most about him was what made him such a successful monk: his ABSOLUTE clarity, certainty, and commitment and resolve to his vision and deepest desire. When I read his memoir, it literally brings me to tears because, at least for me, I get this thing of “this is what matters and I really can feel this is worth giving my life to.” If you think about it, by the time he renounced to the time of his massive enlightenment, it really didn’t take him all that long if you think about it. Ive read his memoir 3 times since I got it for my birthday in May and I cry more every time I read it. I truly feel, and maybe I’m wrong and he’s just a talent, but I do think that 100000% clarity and resolution and total surrender is what set him apart even from other yogis and monks. I wish I could just show his story to every seeker that says “that’s all spiritual ego, desire, and attachment! Follow the teaching!” And meanwhile I’m like “look what the people who are telling you this stuff did not what they say!” I met a guy at an Adyashanti Christmas Intensive in Palo Alto on Saturday and he became a Karma Yoga guy just because he felt that hardcore meditation was too much about attachment and spiritual ego after I told him about my vision. This is why I back 1000000000% every time you talk about vision and connecting to a DEEP desire for enlightenment and really anything. If I had to describe my life purpose through a few examples it would be him, Shunyamurti’s ashram and wisdom school and community (still a little iffy on the community since large groups aren’t really a strong suit), Ralston and his writing and also his application with athletics and making that a means of deepening consciousness and skill, and you with your big picture understanding (that’s always been a skill of mine as well. I’ve always had this thing, I don’t know what it is it’s almost automatic and does it on its own that just sees the interconnectedness of everything. I think that’s one of the reasons your work resonates with).

I seriously don’t get why it’s so hard to find a spiral dynamics test... now there’s a business idea for you