kieranperez

Be in total a-symmetry on psychedelics Have a bad trip (I’m so full of sunshine on this forum) Mindfulness Meditation Radical Honesty until you die (more sunshine) Holotropic Breathwork / Shamanic Breathing Reichian Therapy

@zambize yeah exactly. Bottom line, we don’t know. We don’t know the full context. That gurumag.com article is based on a website whose business model is quite clearly based around trying to “expose fake gurus”. I’m sure there are a lot of fake gurus but that’s a function of something much more broad. It’d be a mistake to say it’s bullshit. It’d also be a mistake to say it isn’t bullshit. It’d be truthful to take both into account and also acknowledge you flat out don’t know. I’m not saying don’t draw a conclusion for yourself. Just be mindful of how you create your conclusion. When a person is sent to jail for a murder no one was around to witness, you have to make certain conclusions. Again though, be careful and mindful of how you create your conclusion. Embodying full uncondtional love is such a radical thing to apply practically in your life because the more you surrender to love the more it’s going to fuck with certain surivival processes like how you earn or don’t earn a living, your sexual cravings, etc. That’s something you’ve gotta go through a deliberate long arduous process over the course of maybe decades if that’s something you deem worth doing and pursuing. @Leo Gura brings this up all the time on here and I’m honestly surprised this doesn’t hit home for most others on here of how easy it is to abuse power. When you have hot “spiritual women” who come to you from around the world that are willing to surrender themselves to you so they could receive your divine grace, you could convince to rub their tits on your face if you really wanted to (especially if you are developed enough too), and not only saying no to that but to be so purified that such an idea doesn’t even occur to you, that’s NEXT LEVEL SHIT. Power is so easy to abuse. This is why I’m impressed by people like Sadhguru who, as far as I know, don’t do that and have the level of integrity and leadership to do what he’s doing with Isha on the mass scale that he’s doing it. It’s astonishing. This is why I both can’t blame yogis for going into a cave or enlightened people laying low after they’ve gotten so fucking awake because you’re on such a different level playing field on 1 end that there’s so much to that because awakening yourself is hard enough, the responsibility and integrity of lifting tens or hundreds of thousands or even millions of people is so next level that they can foresee all the stuff that comes with that and would rather avoid further damage in the future. It also makes me appreciate masterful sages that much more because it shows you how rare that is. How hard that is. How much radical selfless yet total 100% ownership they took on and able to execute on. We take this shit for granted. Hell take Leo even. He’s only come out with 1 course and a booklist. You know how much money he could’ve made making courses and milking the shit out of his current following? Most of you on the forum take this shit for granted and then when it comes to taking more responsibility spew out bullshit about how all of that is just ego bullshit. If you were in Moojis position, God help those whose lives you would’ve damaged from your own egotism.

Consider all the other examples too of the gurus you know nothing about and never hear from who are just leading their disciples in their own context and stage of development who are quite effective and don't get any recognition because they couldn't give 2 shits about that. Be able to see both ends of the coin. Not excusing what Mooji may have done.

It's not that @Salvijus is wrong he just lacks empathy and wants to be some nondual elitist who can't encourage someone whose on the right track. Yes, from the absolute total metta perspective you are the cause of everything because you are everything and always have been everything since there is not but everything. It's all been you. But guess what, if a guy punches you in the mouth, yes in one sense you are the cause of that because you did put yourself in that situation in one sense or another for there to even be that situation but also it's not you're fault. You didn't make that guy punch you. All 3 are true. These nondual keyboard warriors on here who pose a front lack empathy and I'd be my life savings even a single awakening. If someone is truly suffering and is depressed and is about to kill themselves, you don't go them and tell them they're the cause of everything and that it's the mind and all that. You respond to them with love and a non-judgemental hand. @BjarkeT glad you're getting it. Just don't be neurotic about that insight in terms of it's application in your own life.

Don't take these people to be perfect. Once again, for you nondual elitists on here, enlightenment doesn't make you perfect. You still have a shadow. You will always have a shadow. Enlightenment will not fix your character flaws and many other neuroses. This is not new. This may be new to you in terms of your life time but as far as human existence is concerned, this has always been the case. Enlightenment DOES NOT equal moral perfection. This is why being awake as fuck and leading others towards the raising of mankind's consciousness are 2 TOTALLY DIFFERENT endeavors. This instance does not take away from the helpful benefits of having even just 1 guru. This should show you the challenge post awakening at how much work you have left after enlightenment. The work doesn't end. Development in the 21st century demands a holistic integral approach. You're just not going to get around that these days. If this were 1000 years ago, this instance with Mooji would be a cultural norm because it was for the most part. Human development is going towards more all inclusiveness so you need to have a more all inclusive development. Which is why for those of you who may have a vision of starting some Turquoise ashram or spiritual communitity or monastery, beware that this demands more all inclusive and holistic personal development than ever before in mankind's history. It's not enough to just be awake as fuck. Shadow work, cognitive development, deep understanding and application of systems thinking, etc. these are things you cannot leave aside anymore. This is why those of you wish to deny taking 100% responsibility and ownership over your development of how perfect and whatever other excuse you have for not taking on more ownership for your development are shooting yourselves and also others in the foot. Gurus are still helpful. Find a responsible who both speaks to your sole but you can also look at in terms of how he conducts himself and goes about his daily business and ask "is that worth emulating? Is this someone I wish to submit myself to?"

The article provided in the link below really struck me at how universal this issue is all domains of human life. The world wide web has shaped culture at an order of magnitude I personally don't think people 30 years ago could have ever expected. It was, as far as far as my limited understanding can take me, built as a noble invention meant to serve mankind. Notice how that's the same situation for anyone whose ever created anything that has had lasting value and impact in time such as: Christ & Christianity (if he was a historical person) Buddha & Buddhism The fathers of quantum mechanics The Founding Fathers of the United States We can expand this list A LOT more as we can imagine. I think it's important to read these kinds of accounts because it makes us whom are interested in having an impact in the world and create something have a higher elevation perspective of the ramifications of what we're putting out into the world with our life purpose and make us question "is what I'm doing really going to advance mankind?" "How might my creation and impact affect the world 5, 10, 20, 50+ years down the road?" "How might an ego, the collective ego, or my own ego co-opt this down road?" This is where systems thinking & having a long time horizon that goes beyond your own lifetime becomes extraordinarily practical. You still becoming more mindful of the actions you take and don't take on both the metta and micro level. Think about this with your life purpose. https://www.apnews.com/1a944fcf10c445f2a87fcd5c2d0320e5

I was referring to Jesus to highlight a point as an antithesis to the original post.

@Nervtine don’t confuse someone being very upfront and direct for anger. I wasn’t angry. Im very frank and clear. I never made any accusation that you’re unempathatic. Idk you at all. You don’t know me at all.

I’ve been having a lot of realizations in my own consciousness work and also in the big picture of what’s going on but I’m not going to go into my own backstory behind these realizations as I think a lot of my own posts are too self involved. Hopefully you use this in your own life. Your capacity to develop yourself in all facets (consciousness, emotionally, career wise, your ability to impact the world, your own happiness, etc.) is going to come down to how much responsibility your able to really take on in your own life. As you become more conscious of how self deception works (not conceptually back actually) in both others and in you, how you help serve all the evil in the world in virtually all that you do (from the clothes you wear, the phone and computer you talk shit and waste time on, to the food you buy, to the stores you go to, to the television you watch, to the taxes you pay, etc.), when you start realizing the root solutions that need to be worked towards, when you tangibly and directly see in others and in you the root cause of all the suffering in the world... 1 of 2 things is going to happen: Your going to grasp the magnitude of what’s going on to the point of utter shock and you grasp the paradox of being in this reality and you actually accept more responsibility to not only become more conscious but to also help elevate others (people, animals, insects, the environment, the planet, the cosmos as a whole, whatever)... OR You end up abandoning all of this and go back asleep. If you actually want to develop yourself to your highest capacities you will not escape this paradox. If you don’t handle the whole paradox you’re either going to play on just one side of the street or you’re going to just fall back asleep. Even if you’re a a Buddha level enlightened yogi in a cave that can levitate and bend spoons using siddhis you haven’t really escaped this issue. You still kill plants to eat which is still life. You still have to fulfill survival demands. You still have to leach off a river for water like a person in an apartment does in a big city or like a deer does. Even if you’re free from samsara, all because you play the “i never suffer” card anymore just shows you're only playing half the game. You’re still living selfishly because you’re not serving anything other than you. It takes a truly developed being to realize to get off suffering, see how all suffering and people are part of a dream and are you and put yourself in that fire passionately and help them, even if they demonize you and it’s a lot harder to create a higher conscious impact because you’ll have to take the high road and not fall for shortcuts. You’re not going to win out this paradox nor is it meant to be solved. No matter how much of a victim you pretend to be (myself included) nor how enlightened you (think you) are, you’re going to need to take responsibility once you start becoming aware of the magnitude of the amount of responsibility these awakenings, realizations, and developments come with and the practical changes that are going to need to be made as a result. Bite the bullet. None of us as individuals matter. Serve something beyond you. Create a higher consciousness impact in the world. Even if it takes 100 or a 1000 years for that impact to leave any sort of trace after you’re current embodied perspective has been dead. Even if it’s small. This doesn’t mean being a Sadhguru, Christ, Buddha, Einstein, Gandhi, MLk, Ken Wilber or whoever. Nobody is telling you to become Superman and reach Stage Rainbow I Spiral Dynamics. Do what you gotta do. Whatever that is. Just take it on.

Don’t confuse what I’m saying with some notion that you gotta entrench and whip yourself to elevate the entire world. Like I said, no one is saying to become Superman. I’m not saying have childish fantasies. There is no moralistic dogma that you have to. This paradox will always exist for every human being. As you become more thoroughly and we’ll rounded in your own development, there will come a point where you see that your prior unconscious habits and choices do have real world consequences and that you are fueling those things one way or another regardless of whether you live in a cave or in a city. So long as you operate in this relative world, you have an effect one way or another. That’s what I’m saying. Then when you realize the magnitude of what I’m saying, that’s a fucking major uncomfortable ephiphany that can be tough to swallow. This is just the case. This is the paradox. I’m not saying go around and be dogmatic towards yourself and others to have a moral responsibility and prosthelitize people into rasing good and blah blah blah. When you accept more responsibility and you continue your growth you’ll realize it can’t be any other way. You can’t hate or judge the game. It’s whats so. See the beauty behind the entire game. See the intelligence and the beauty in the chaos and play both passiontely and dispassionately. You don’t see someone like say Sadhguru flipping out about what’s going on in the world. But he is taking ownership and responsibility of his part in what he can do to the best of his ability to serve and elevate the planet. Youre going to be much happier playing your part in a more responsible and conscious way. Doesn’t matter if it’s big or small. If you’re passionate about business, take on conscious and ethical marketing and business and do it better than those who are just feeding others poison. If you want quit junk food, how about having your motivation be to not only be looking and feeling great but stop feeding businesses your support that literally poison other human beings while exploiting other countries for labor, natural resources, etc. I actually have been doing that lately in a very dispassionate and non dogmatic way where I’m not spiteful towards say Ben & Jerry’s and their ice cream company for the shit they do but man, I feel a greater sense of integrity because I’m walking my talk with all this abstract big picture orientation of life. How about being more conscious of what YouTube channels you actually support and give your precious attention to which lends those channels your support? When your personal development goes beyond just you and your petty self concerns and preferences, that’s where fulfillment and higher drives start to come in.

@Joseph Maynor are you going to keep milking other people or are you going actually address what I’m saying? You haven’t addressed a single thing I said. If you want to keep milking other people that’s fine, do that, keep pussyfooting around. Do you understand that spiritual advice that are often filmed is usually depedent upon where that person is coming from, where they’re at in their development and that they’re answers are going to be different? If you think what I’m saying is that someone has some moral obligation to take responsibility, then you misunderstand. I’m point out that mechanics in self deception and how devilry works. When you actually start developing, responsibility starts to come forth more naturally. You no longer want to keep supporting certain businesses that fuel lower consciousness causes so long as you keep working on your own self deception and stay vigilant for your own selfishness. You actually start wanting to really want to help the world instead of being a fucking leach on the world. I’m not even pointing out something new. Leo has even said this in his own videos. Its also a balance in reconciliation with the devilry. So long as you are alive and surviving in the world you still are causing evil. How conscious are you though of that? How mindful are you of the game that’s being played? As far as I can see from your responses, not very much so. Don’t care if you’re enlightened. You can still be enlightened and still be full of shit and playing on one side of the street. It doesn’t change that. If you think your own development take responsibility and also discipline, you’re kidding yourself.

Shallow and mayopic.

@Joseph Maynor You’re not addressing the paradox. Yes, there’s is no existential responsibility. Yeah, be a selfish glutton if you think that’s going to satisfy you. The paradox here is yeah you have no free will so there for there is no responsibility on you to change and at the same time, you’re life ain’t changing until you make a decision. So if you just want to play the cop out non dual card, by all means go ahead. You’re just playing on one side of the street my friend and you’re not addressing the larger issue in the room. Try seeing how long you can do Consciousness work while working on Wall Street or at a factory farm also while trying to get a bigger picture understanding of the world. So if you want to just play the nondual “this is all concepts and beliefs” bullshit card, go right ahead.

If you can’t empathize with someone whose truly suffering, you’re doing something wrong. One of the things you should be noticing in your spiritual work and personal development is your own connection with everybody else, the painful parts and the pleasurable parts. I’m seeing a huge trend on here of people who have absolutely no compassion nor empathy for people who truly are suffering. As you become more conscious you should be able to feel absolute complete and utter freedom from suffering and also see someone whose maybe suicidal or mildly depressed and feel their pain so deeply that it brings you to tears and feel drawn to help them. If you’re not doing both or can’t do both you’re doing something wrong. It’s a paradox. But that’s how this works. Yin, Yang. Play the complete game.

Christ.

You don’t understand the ramifications that come with development and “taking care of your life”.

I wanted to share and put this out there for you artists on this forum who are spiritually motivated, havea life purpose around your medium of art. I’ve been doing a lot of fun homework on Alex Grey which has led me down a rabbit hole of other visionary artists. I recently found this organization that apparently Alex Grey and his wife started called the Chapel of Sacred Mirrors and I think it can serve as a really inspiring vision for what’s possible for you, your art, how you can combine that with savy conscious business and the people you want to impact with your art in ways that raise human consciousness. The “sanctuary” hosts events, gallery showings, a mystery school, etc. https://www.cosm.org/ Have your art transcend your limited self and help inspire the awakening of mankind

It’s not that he doesn’t care. He knows what pain is. Pain is something you do. Pain is something you’re thinking and creating. Stop creating that thought. To contrast it with something more basic - it’s like when you overcome a period in your life when you were going through a breakup when the thought of the man or woman you were with could bring you to tears and a great deal of suffering but then 5 years later that thought doesn’t even arise anymore. When you think of that’s person you don’t create all those reactions as you learned (unconsciously) to stop creating those reactions, distinctions, etc. becaue you saw the truth of what it was.

Not all yogis are equally conscious. You can still be enlightened and still not be conscious of what pain. Vice versa, you can be unenlightened and still be conscious of what pain is. Depends on what you mean when you say “suffering”.

Which is precisely what sages do. Sages don’t tend to just play on one end of the paradox where they never suffer. Of course you’re free to do whatever you want (in a sense). The desire to become a sage for me isn’t about having some title. It’s about having enough of a vision down the road about what I value most and what I’m going to want to contribute as a result of the work that will need to be done. You can be fully awakened to God and that is what you are but once you sustain that level of consciousness throughout your daily life, living for your own selfish agenda that doesn’t impact anybody else despite the fact that it’s an illusion tends to not be that satisfying anymore. Living for just pure comfort and hedonism and it’s all for you on the relative side of things just stops making sense. For me, I don’t want to speak for anyone else, I feel amazing when I give all of myself to someone and there’s that devotion. Whether it be with a person and I go grab them a meal and pass that on to them, $10 a hug and a conversation or picking up trash along a trail and then looking at the trees and hills and feeling a love for that and thinking ‘what if my work was like that for the world?’ I’m with you in a lot of ways. If someone for example is enlightened and they’re cool with being a life coach or programmer and they never ever talk about what they know and that’s what they want to do, man that’s awesome. If that drive isn’t there to talk about spiritual matters, then throw that idea in the trash. The main thing I think is missed about sages is that they don’t just play on one end of the paradox of never feeling pain or suffering. Christ I think is an inspiring example of that. Even people like Sadhguru today I think are great role models of that. These people serve and give beyond themselves. They aren’t some nondual know it all keyboard jockeys who talk about how everything is all an illusion and there’s nothing to do.

The main problem with the materialist scientific view can is, as Leo very accurately put, is that it calls black white and calls white black. I posted this quote on my IG story yesterday hahaha how ironic. However much quantum mechanics and idealism explains this stuff though, it all fails short of the mark without direct consciousness. Make sure to not leave out direct consciousness of this realization. You can have the most elaborate explanation for all of this and why it’s the case but still be ignorant of the matter (not as a put down. This includes me). Remember that as long as you haven’t directly experienced this, you don’t know if it’s true or if it’s not.

I disagree. As far as I’m concerned, I think Zen Masters can still be impressed and also shocked by the depth of psychedelics. Zen masters also don’t really address things like repressed shadows and certain psychological issues that well (a lot of Ken Wilber’s discoveries and breakthroughs have been in filling in that gap) and I think psychedelics can really be powerful in opening up those missed issues that a lot of meditative traditions just don’t address all that well and all that accurately. I think psychedelics in that light for a Zen master can hit them and shock them in terms of that which can lead to a “bad trip”. It also depends on what stage on the spiral you’re talking about when you say “Zen master”. Zen masters in Japan are really Blue so I think psychedelics can maybe undermine some of that depending on how it’s used. Tricky question. Tricky answer.

Perfect example: Osho

If you want geographical locations, San Francisco Bay Area is a great place to meet Yellow/Green people. The main thing is you have to develop yourself and your life in such a way that these people start to become more accessible to you. Superstars tend to want to associate with other superstars (in the case of 2nd tier Yellow/Turquoise people). If you have no life purpose that you’re developing/working on, have no track of anything, etc. these people are much harder to find and also be with. For me, I wouldn’t consider myself like the average person in terms my own cognitive development but I haven’t handled my success, survival, and emotional well being where these people are accessible to me. No “attraction” can happen. This is why exterior development as well as interior development is important. A turquoise/yellow person tends to have goals and ambitions to help the world and their life circumstances and daily actions are aligned with that. Or they’ve stepped off the game and live a more casual lay low life (which isn’t really helpful for your question here). As far as Green, if you’re in the US, check out Wesern Buddhist centers. Western Buddhism is very Green and pluralistic and relativistic and you can meet such people there. Maybe go to more muse sims and meet girls/guys there and do a more “Green pickup”. Be creative with it. Having said that, as far as your point about conversations, I want to throw out some advice based on experiences and realizations I’m currently having: don’t expect Green or even Yellow people to talk about the stuff that Actualized.org tends to put out and such content outlets. I actually struggle at the SF Zen Center I live next to because it’s so Green that it retracts from the whole point of Zen practice which is to awaken and Western Buddhism is very much at the stage of relativism/pluralism that it’s stuck in exoteric teachings and it’s hard for me to even talk with people there. Not that’s a problem. Just appreciate the sensitivity and depth of these topics. There’s a reason why these things aren’t talked about. Understand that deep spiritual metaphysical matters really aren’t meant to be talked about (mostly). Personally I never really appreciated this and when I talk about deep issues, I would never understand why this would always cause a controversy and end in argument or resort back to shallow talk. It doesn’t make other people inferior. Just appreciate the sensitivity and depth of what we commonly share on here. Sometimes it’s better to just shut up and stay quiet and keep your deeper business to yourself. I say this because I resonate with that struggle in terms of conversations. I don’t know if that’s what you’re alluding to but nonetheless I hope this advice serves you well.

This is a post I was a bit wary of posting because I see a lot of potential for delusion and fantasy from users who conceptual and cosmologize and mythologize these sorts of subjects but here it goes... I’ve really wondered for awhile now... what exactly made these people such as Gautam Buddha, Christ, Mahavira, etc. different? Why are these people remembered hundreds and thousands of years later? What was it they did that really made such an impact on the human psyche, heart, and spirit? Is it something so fundamental that it comes down to one thing? I can definitely buy spiritual giftedness and good karma. There are certainly degrees of mastery. For instance, Kawhi Leonard is a super star caliber player in the NBA but he isn’t MJ. Is it moral mastery relative to the time and culture they were living in? Was it really the capacity for unconditional love? Was it the teachings, technology/practice/system they provided? Was it superb paranormal psychic giftedness alongside their deep wisdom? I mean, Martin Ball or say veteran Zen masters are perfectly aware of God, is seemingly grounded in the ever present unconditionally loving nature that is God and is aware of that as his nature... in yet... In yet of course they don’t have the same impact as many others who are aware of the very same thing that he talks about. Mind you, I’m not saying they should. I’m not playing a comparison game here like a great basketball player might mistakingly keep comparing himself to Michael Jordan or Wilt Chamberlain and deluxe himself into thinking he has to be like them. I’m just making a contrast to ask the question of makes these people different. Certainly there seems to be a difference in luck, talent, and maybe karma/past lives which explains as to why certain like Ramana Maharshi or Sadhguru get this stuff (at least initially to be fair... the “first” enlightenment) overnight without much work. Which of course is very similar to sports where in say a sport like running which is a pretty relatively low skill and high talent based sport can hop into it totally new and without much work be running 4:25 in the mile as a 14/15 year old as a result of having an efficient lactate threshold, great vo2 capacity, big heart (physiologically speaking), etc. Yeah I just want to get some opinions on this.