Nahm

Go back, prior to seeing them as separate from you. See the personal, and the non personal. Just because someone is a guru/teacher, doesn’t reveal anything about their spirituality, in the way that you are asking, either.

There’s really only One who realizes one is the devil.

@Rahul yadav Great share, thanks!

@cle103 So Beautiful. Thank you for sharing. Reminded me of a time I walked through The Louvre in around fifteen minutes or so, sans that one painting of the children, the animals, the farm, the mediocrity. I saw the scene and the artistry was astounding, then I saw the seen, and felt the message, the pain, suffering, loneliness, the isolation, of Art, of creating. It spoke louder than the crowded museum, as it disappeared. In hindsight, I did not see myself in the Mona Lisa, having read a bit too much on De Vinci. So hard to deduce without the raising of eyebrows, any experience of ‘this is special, unique’, yet the yearning was already readily known in empathy, compassion, wholeness, and love in our ‘shared predicament’. I heard that in seeing the scene, in seeing within the scene, the seeing of the woman on the farm. It all revolved around her perfectly. Too perfectly. The art was fine, the art-ing was fine, but the art wanted to become the artist, like one attempting to think awareness. So hard to deduce sneakiness from wisdom, pain from subtle humor, joy from agony, without the eyebrows. Maybe De Vinci recognized his sneakiness. Maybe I did, lol. Maybe you do. But absolutely, we can not, and that is it. The profundity of the a floating cork, round bubbles, gravity, all behind that empty space, where the eyebrows go. Friend of mine here with me is weighing in on your post, he’s not ‘into this stuff’. His advice on the separation & lonliness...”Get in bed with it, make love to it until you are one, and make an art of it. Share it, never sharing it” I’m no artist but I think its all in the interpretation. Aside, ime, 3-4g’s is the earth and the firmament. 2 is good, 4 is good. 3-4g is a tug of war.

...locks thread...logs into Craigslist.

What do you need in life, and what do you want? What do you need with me, and what do you want with me?

@Anton Rogachevski Paradoxically, by studying & understanding zen, as it dissolves itself, you see the write off of ‘zen games’, and then begin what is desiring to be ‘doing’ / it becomes the experience so to speak, and could be no other way.

@mandyjw Just a kid blowing bubbles. ♥️

@Lento There is ‘such a thing’ as being ‘out of reality’, ‘out of the bubble’, and thus literally seeing exactly what you’re asking. Communicatively, it’s beyond fascinating. So fascinating it’s beyond communicating. There’s a stage of breakthroughs where we have to fully notice the love (II) is being claimed by the intellect, so that it no longer is (as it wasn’t already). Long before this, the ox pics are well understood, rather than spotted. If that.

@legendary You’re not actually maintaining a separate self. Thoughts about you are arising, and you’re believing them. That is the “agony”, which is actually guidance regarding the thoughts. They don’t resonate because they’re not true. Her thinking might have been in you developing confidence, thus freeing from the believing of thoughts about yourself which don’t feel good, and understanding a key misunderstanding from past experience. In addressing, inspecting, the arising thoughts directly we discover the untruth, and there’s no need to culminate confidence, or, it could be said these two are the same. Psychedelica has no beliefs, but our leaving is their returning, yet no one leaves or returns. (Beliefs)

Innocence, suffering.

@Victor Mgazi This is it.

Alive is basically not-dead. As sneaky as it is, you’d have to experience dead (or realize you can’t), to justify the ‘alive’ in contrast. Amongst the arising memories, and this moment, try to pin point the exact evidence of ‘alive’, it might be a belief.

The thoughts will ease up in severity after doing this a few times. Lot of clarity. Write the thought down in a phrase, and looking at the scale, choose the feeling that best matches how you feel. Then go to the next higher feeling on the scale, and feel for that feeling. A new perspective arises. At some ‘levels’ on the scale it’s takes longer, but that’s usually the one that brings the understanding & relieving perspective, which opens the door through the rest of the scale. Great to hear, very insightful on the kriya. Sounds like a solid ox wrestle. Feeling so good, it’s hard to do the practices. Filling up a dream board?

@electroBeam Have you tried boiling this down to one phrase, as a thought, and working that thought up the emotional scale? The perspective changes and the yang aha perspective is ‘revealed’.

These stand out to me as self referential thinking / judgements...but I believe they are not standing out as such to you because of the misunderstanding in relation with feeling which is being labeled instead of listened to. These thoughts don’t feel good to you because they’re about a second self, not you, and are not true. I’m pointing them out because it seems like you’re really hurting and missing that you are living the story that you are telling about yourself. The “separate self” is sustained by believing and continuing to tell the self referential story about who you are. It feels terrible because none of it is true about you.... ”I’ve been obsessed”, “accepting myself”, ”being authentic”, “feel powerful”, “without anxiety”, “What I observed about myself is scary”, “I’m such a fucking devil”, “I was protecting my identity”, “scared of my own judgement about myself”, “you just project your own judgements”, “I don’t know what to do with my own bullshit”, “how to get out of this”, “this neurotic ego centric identity”, “won’t fucking go away”, “my neuroticism and fears”, “the ego”, “my own bullshit / egocentric neuroticism”, “I got out of a big big obsessive behavior”, “I am not able”, “I share flat + lack of money”, “my problem is myself and my self centered ness”, “I can’t seem to”, “I will lose myself”, “no matter what I do”, “I’m always egocentric”, “I never will surrender my bullshit”, “practices that erase my ego”, “my devilry”, “the ego”, “I would like to solve my bullshit”. It is a story about a you, about who you are. Feels bad cause it’s not true. These thought cycles stop when you recognize the feeling is telling you they are not true. This is next to impossible when you believe you have anxiety etc. That is often used as a write off, a way to not realize the suffering is from not listening to your feeling. This very moment right now is a clean slate. Be very aware of the next thing you say about yourself. Just be aware of how it feels. Then pick a better feeling thought, aware of how it feels. When a thought comes up about how because of this past (story) you have to resolve it, just feel how the thought feels right now, in this moment where you actually are, and are fine.

@Tony 845 Nip any self referential thinking in the bud. Not judge it, just nip it.

@Eph75 @arlin Much appreciated, thank you both ??

I think of spirituality as looking at how I create my suffering, and thus liberating from it, aka love, joy, empowerment, creating the life I actually want, realizing success in life, ease, effortlessness, togetherness, fun, deep rich authentic relationships, happiness, truth. Why would anyone believe you when you say investigating yourself would do you harm? I don’t think that way about you at all. Imo, you’re amazing. The more of that you see, the better you feel. If I held beliefs about myself to the contrary, I’d avoid my own feelings - because they would always be telling me that the thoughts about myself which do not feel good, are not true. But you made a post specifically ruling any true genuine answer out, imo. To me it reads, “join me in my delusion & suffering, or don’t join me at all”. That’s just an opinion though, I’m sharing it, not pushing it. I respect where you’re at, just a perspective here for you to consider or discard. No worries either way. You wouldn’t end up lost, powerless or depressed because you would understand how you do that to yourself to begin with, but again, I respect your perspective against investigating this, even knowing the avoidance of feeling is the suffering. You don’t need to hear that though, as you already know it. Believing you need someone else to make you feel better, is the suffering, and perpetuates the suffering. Am I saying you shouldn’t ask for help, and allow help? Heck no. I’m pointing to your belief that you need it. That’s just a perspective I’m sharing though. Don’t give it any value so to speak. If it doesn’t resonate with you, it doesn’t. I wish you well in any case.

Yes. Done. End of story. But now you’re thinking...... No. It is not possible to remember yourself. You are what is aware of the memories. Memories are thoughts. The thoughts literally, actually are you. If you believe them, you’re believing the content, thus missing you are the awareness of the thought or memory.

@arlin What is your connotation of spirituality?

@Tony 845 Want scrutiny / suggestion, on that last 2%?

Yes!! Notice how fast you went back to self referential thinking. See it as a punchline. Why is it funny.... Unless you can figure out some way to not be you...you’re all set. If a thought arises...that there is a problem...simply ask..who’s aware of this thought? You are! Awareness is aware!

Think in terms of transition. Is my 8 year old daughter dependent on external circumstances? Hell ya she is. She ain’t getting an income, heat, electricity, food, etc any time soon. Why is this not a problem for me? Love. She’ll grow up though. She’ll become independent. She’ll move out. Likely, she’ll have kids, and they will be dependent on her. How beautiful is this? Do you see? How beautiful, are you !!!

I know you know! You don’t believe that, you don’t think that, you know that...and I know you know that! It does sound too good to believe, too good to be possible....but love is the truth. Not any thought. Love is the truth. This Love is you. Anger is not negative! That is judging. It’s love. Why does it feel so terrible to not love? Because you are love. Because love is the truth. When angry....”how does this feel, good, or not good”. Not good. What am I holding judgment against....me...other...or the world? Where do I find this judgement? In my thought, my perspective. Why doesn’t it feel good? Because judging = separation...me, and other. Why doesn’t that feel good? Because it’s not true. How does this relate to me? You’re the truth. The truth is love. You are love. Why doesn’t that feel good? Because it’s not true, and I know this.