Nahm

The taste of an orange, at least could be said to be known. ’Death’ is not known - a belief about yourself is known. The same self which is not resonating in feeling, with that belief. You’ve dubbed “the work”, to accommodate the undesirable emotion. But without the belief - feeling, thought and emotion are in perfect accord. They were already. For you to find yourself doing anything, you’d have to split in two, and have a wall or something between you’s two’s. Hopefully helpful now, and for the trip.

It’s literally now or never.

@Dazgwny It’s the collective ego. It’s the same as transcending the personal ego. Once the message is truly heard, the suffering disappears. Same for the virus.

@TheGreekSeeker A human doesn’t realize it is something lessor either.

@Javfly33 That’s awesome! You. Are. Good.❣️ We are so innocent man, it’s damn near unfathomable.

@TheGreekSeeker There’s no separation, which is ‘why’ the “identity” is created. Identity is created in-directly, not directly. Like “oh, well, I’m not a tree”. You are a tree, but you forgot ‘who’ you are. In the ‘instant Mind’ scenario, there’d be no experience / creation. Animals are of the opposite case, they are entirely ‘connected’. The sneakery of thought is such that we often miss that claims on behalf of the experience as an animal, is nothing more than a ‘human’ projection. Humans and animals are not the same in this way. Animals are what you’re calling the de facto state of Godliness. There’s no (in the spiritual sense) “devil” in the animal kingdom. If there was though, it’d be the cuckoo bird.

@TheGreekSeeker Mind can forget itself, as it does, but to “suffer for gain” is going well beyond forgetting. It is the adding of a narrative which is not resonating, with Mind. It implies something is wrong with Mind, and suffering must occur to ‘fix’ Mind. Mind simply does not suffer, does not experience suffering, does not know what suffering is. Mind is too busy loving Itself. That’s really it’s gig.

@TheGreekSeeker Yes, but not a collision of two, Mind appearing as such, that the assumption is there is the second, “mind”. Mind assumes. A neat little way to ‘see’ this, is to make a fist with your left hand and cover it with your right hand. Now remove the left hand. The remaining right hand implies there is something in the center, but there is Mind (Nothing). It is Mind which wrestles, as it forgot itself (aka “birth”). Also, there is no source of unhappiness and misery. This would be like covering a flashlight, and saying there is a source of darkness. It is only the forgetting which leads to the implication of any duality, whatever duality as a word might be applied to. The ‘can’t win the battle’ & ‘there never was one’, yes indeed. Very nice. (The explainations seem a bit different, as I am trying to ‘speak to’ your question while mindfully respecting the courage of the op, in making the thread)

@Javfly33 Welcome to the major leagues of discovering just how sneaky thought is. There’s a reason there is historically the whole “Devil” thing. Half the world’s in such a deep denial, they’re actually believing this. Not you though. You’re doing the work. The heart is incorruptible. Thought is that sneaky. The reason certain thoughts about yourself feel terrible, is because your heart IS True! The “bad feeling” of such thoughts is the very evidence of your Goodness! Think about it. If you were just neutral, or bad - there’d be no resonance, no experience of alignment or discord between thought & feeling. But they’re is! Because you are Good! Yes, probably. Maybe ten times, maybe 100. Just take feeling off. Literally, like you would a coat. Just take feeling off, and set feeling on a chair.

As Ashtavakra says, "If you think you are free, You are free. If you think you are bound, You are bound." Also, ‘it takes time’ indeed. Beautiful. Like a blooming flower.

@acidgoofy

@TheGreekSeeker Nice. At this point, I’d say it’s the mind. ‘Spotting’ it, is to initially ‘realize’ there is something more to reality, to life. Something unseen & unheard, but there is something more. Then there is ‘discovering’ awareness in the direct sense, and that awareness is aware of the finite mind, which is the beginning of the ‘wrestling’. That could look like equanimity, then ego backlash, etc, for a while. It could also be said that there is another ‘spotting’, and that is that the finite mind, or ego, is the ‘source of suffering’. (That it is not in or of the world - in the sense it could be credited to circumstances and others, but my own)

What if inspecting thoughts about ourselves that don’t ring true with the heart were a practice.

@TheGreekSeeker Give it a google. Share what ya find here.

@Mongu9719 It’s the opposite. Not escaping anything, seeing exactly what it is, understanding it, and no longer doing it. The last thing you’d want to do is start believing suffering is a strange loop. The is the ox justifying itself.

@Mongu9719 How’s your daily practices going? How’s the diet? You’re making a lot of ruminating threads, and I love ya. So I’m asking.

@electroBeam ha! Good point. ?

@Ya know If ya don’t mind me asking (and pm is always fine)...where in America?

@Gnosis Thank you and likewise. Might be Knowing the unconditional within, via solid & lasting direct experience, but finding some resistance in knowing the unconditional as the fabric of reality, or the ‘without’ (the world, and your life unfolding ‘in’ it). Another way to say that might be, unconditional & pure at heart, but still ‘physical reality’ ‘real life stuff’ in perception & knowledge. I recall a stage of ‘being done’ on the path, which was just before ‘returning to the relative’. I didn’t want that honeymoon to end. At all. Very reluctant. I wanted life on pause forever, though I knew ‘two worlds needed to collide’ sooner or later. In letting go, the body did start flushing out what felt like a ‘bones level’ of emptying, followed by a deeply beautiful series of purifications. Prior to that though, there was recognition of spiritual ego...of the intelligence facet of the unconditional feeling so good, it’d just bliss out the body in love & infinite intelligence, then go straight to my head, followed by my foot in my mouth. I found the continuation of the expansion of the unconditional, a true infinitude of “the path”, in living it. Putting it first, above all. Uncompromising. A much deeper purification ensued. Intuitive sensitivity went through the rough, often being a bit too much and exhausting the body. Going ‘over capacity’ in terms of visceral love. Honestly the depth of purification was shocking. In that ’returning to the relative’, I believe you know what I mean when I say I was basically ‘forced‘ to bring all attention & mind space back to my life. There were thoughts like, “well, parties over I guess. I’m gonna lose it, but whatever. I’ll do a retreat soon”. And I just, surrendered everything. “Jesus take the wheel” lol. Done. It didn’t take long at all for what I’ll just call ‘creation consciousness’ & ‘cosmic consciousness’ to settle in to the ‘space’ purification cleaned out. It was and is better than experience had ever been by far. In hindsight - what did I even think I was giving up? It was just that I was holding apart life. “Pressure”, “responsibility”, “finances”, etc. I was so sneaky, I had divided existence from experience right under my own nose, and I did not really want to see that I had done so. But all that deeper purification came because I did look and see, because I “got real” with the unconditional in living. Then I was dumbfounded by a single insight - “Oooohhhh! Ok. “Dreamboard”. Eleven dry erase boards, and a 40 ft chalk paint wall for years - with a single insight I saw them for the very first time for what they were. Saw what I’d been up to in the most wonderful way, again, right under my own nose. It was like someone pulled a dam out of the way, and everything I’d written on them began to pour into my life. Perhaps the single greatest epiphany in that stage was how everything I’d ever experienced, made perfect sense with everything I wanted in life now. Just seeing it coming together on the board did it. I saw everything in my life, home & family, work, hobby, interests - I saw it all as one big perfect unfolding - which (and I mean this unconditionally) simply didn’t matter at all. It was that “inner kriya”, that “choice”, to let the ‘meta’ & ‘the spiritual’ of the past go. The experiences, the knowledge, the character, the trips & insights, the retreats, every last atom of every last memory of it all. I just let it all go for nothing. And now everything is nothing, and nothing is everything. TLDR: Order a dry erase board. Through expression of your entirely relative, and perfectly unique preferences & wanting, the absolute desire of creation flows through you, and everything in your life that is, rather magically recontextualizes itself. (It’s been flowing all along.) You will change, and your life will change, and that can seem scary...but the punchline is alway unconditional. Relentlessly, infallible & unconditional. It’s Good to get your hands dirty in life creation. Source has no problem washing ya clean again and again. @electroBeam What’a you just stay up all night spreading The Message? Shouldn’t you be sleeping. ?

Maybe it’s a feeling telling you the way you’re thinking about yourself isn’t jivin with the boss. ♥️ Nothing can be said to have anything to do with meditation, imo.

@Javfly33 I think you’re touching on wether the past happened, or upon birth, appears to have happened...? You op is spot on imo, but it’s tough to communicate what is meant by hallucination. But in the meta, if you will, sense, yes. Great insight.

@remember I am 0 for 2 on wife humor on the forum.

I would understand and therefore be without, the anxiety. Be careful not to project anything that doesn’t feel good, onto anything conceptual at all, wether that’s awakening, enlightenment, nature, social environments, etc. If you are at the place of willingness to inspect, you can see that & how you are creating it. It is a misunderstanding of the relationship between feeling & thought. It is not complex, but seems so as it is almost entirely, collectively, misunderstood. While it’s easy and simpler than you might suspect, it is entirely relative. So feel free to pm me if you like. Same for anyone btw. I assume that goes without saying on the forum, but it’s best not to assume.

@remember Ha! ‘Nailed it’.

@SoonHei It just sounded better than my wife.