kurt

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Posts posted by kurt

  1. Posted

    2 hours ago, Bebop said:

    You missed my point, I never said anything was wrong with society, I just want to undo the conditioning that I was lead to believe. I'm well aware of the illusion of the ego , I've had several no-self experiences myself. To be honest it seems that you are very attached to your identity and are unwilling to let it go, and now you are projecting to other people out of your own insecurity. Go ahead call me an idiot for making that statement :)

    I have come to my understanding through my own experience and doing the work.  If Im "attached" to that just means that its working for me.  I was ready to commit suicide two years ago, and if it was not for my spiritual path i would not be here now.  Its going to take 20-30 years to become non attached to a system that saved me from taking my own life.  If you imagine that this is a case of just dropping all ideas then you are mistaken.  Ideas in the end release us from all ideas and identifications, in the end, not halfaway through, not just because some idiot on a website requests it of us because they want to win and disarm others by telling them they are identified with their path.  And not because i couldnt really give a toss about what you think you know about "enlightement" while you stand there and speak in a way that very clearly deomostrates that you have merely made a conceptual ideology of this work and that you are indeed not free, or do you see that your ego was an idea, because free people dont need to strive for a better happiness than what already is.  And yes, you can learn what projection is from one of leos videos and then use that as a weapon against anyone who doesnt fit your ideology, but this does not mean that you know what projection is, merely means you use it as a weapon while you project the idea of me projecting onto you.  Projection is a mechanism you use to decieve yourself in order to win arguments based on internalized beliefs that are not in harmony with your experience.  Ive already pointed out youre lying to yourself and everyone else by claiming you dont exist yet your ego makes value judgements and seeks to gain a "better" life than it already has.  That is not the sign of an enlightened person, or an awakened person, its the sign of a liar who has taken on a belief system.  

  2. Posted

    4 minutes ago, Martin123 said:

    @kurt I'm surprised you make the assumption I don't do the work.

    That is one factual error you made.

    Its easy to see youre not doing the work, you have problems with being called an idiot, and you believe leos idealism.  Thats enough for me to see youre not doing any of the real work.  You are probably meditating to relive stress, or doing western psychotherapy which makes the deluded ego stronger. You are a trainee therapist are you not?  That is one fucked up paradigm

  3. Posted

    2 minutes ago, Martin123 said:

    I agree with the vast majority of what you're saying. But the arrogant, narcissistic glow coming out of your posts makes it worth a while. 

    So go on, educate more on what enlightenment is and is not.

     

    Neurosis after enlightenment could seem like it's not there anymore. And in a sense it isn't. It no longer causes suffering, and you don't act compulsively.

    so we're not moving in the boundaries of the definition of neurosis I suppose.

    However you still have that same pattern within yourself (it is biologically there). That's why spiritual purification doesn't equal enlightenment. Now when you reach enlightenment, it sure becomes easier (I'd imagine) to correct the pattern, because it no longer serves any purpose of identity. But it doesn't do it by itself.

    It's not really possible to have emotional release of all your dysfunctional patterns at once. Imo body couldn't take that. You get dettached, and you continue (if you choose to) with dissolving neuroses.

    If i harboured a value for what you thought of me, then I might take your feedback.  The good thing is, I dont value anyones opinion of me or my behaviour.  For all I know you could be fucked up in the head and call everyone who doesnt agree with you "arrogant"?

    You use a wepon of me "educating" me on what enlightenment is, yet your following words are "educating" me on enlightenment. Weird. 

    You sound like you are equating spirituality and enlightenment with all the "good" things about people.  Thats not enlightenment.  Read what I've said already, because Im not bothering wasting my energy talking to an idiot who cant try to listen to another person and who just wants to be right.  You have no idea what enlightenment is, you think you know, but you dont know.  If you want to know then start doing the actual work and you will see for yourself what delusion is.  Its easy to spot when you begin to let go of your own

  4. Posted

    9 hours ago, Martin123 said:

    @kurt But don't hesitate to criticize the person who seems to be the king of skeptics, has thousands of meditation hours under his belt, with different psychadelic experiences, and apparently someone who's done lots of research.

    But heyy why stop there, also start calling people who disagree with you names.

    One more thing, idiot.  When you do the work yourself and you understand with first hand experience what purifying the mind means, you see that all of what Leos ideals are, just pipedreams, delusions, concepts.  They have nothing to do with an enlightened mind.  If even I with my small amount of experience in actually doing the work can see what this is, it means Leo is not doing the work.  He may be meditating, and taking psychedelics, but the intellectual knowledge has probably added more concepts and just deluded him in the process.  Studying the masters is not an enlightenment path, its a scholarly path, its got nothing to do with the enlightenment process.

  5. Posted

    5 hours ago, Frogfucius said:

    You see, you keep putting these "masters" on a pedestal, like they're living a better life than anyone else. A true quote unquote "enlightened" person realizes that there is no enlightenment, and that there's no difference between a saint, some thieving bum who lives on the street, and a maggot or tapeworm. There is no consciousness, because we don't even know what the fuck consciousness even is.

    The fact that you think there's a "good" human being, and that you equate slobbery to a 7/11 worker, just shows how much you label and categorize things. There are no labels. Reality just is. Yes, the Zen Master is sexy because he can withstand a lot of things most people can't. And he got there through training. But that doesn't make his life better than anyone else's, and he realizes that.

    But we can continue working on some non-existent path that leads to nowhere. Hell, society has been leading us like that since we were born. First, grade school. Then college, then a job, then retirement, then you fucking die. Human life is manufactured to feel inauthentic and mundane.

    Well said, you understand what this is about.  The ego looking from the outside in at its realized heores and buys into all the romanticizm about enlightenment is a sick ego indeed.  

  6. Posted

    14 minutes ago, Bebop said:

    Sure I agree with you on that, but let me ask you. Are you happy with the way society is? Is that the life that YOU want for yourself? Do you not have hopes and dreams? The whole point of enlightenment is to undo your social conditioning to live your life authentically. Yeah in the end this is all pointless and meaning but why not find a way to enjoy it while you are here  :D

    No, its not.  Who is saying "society is not the way I want it to be" "my life is not the way I want it to be"  thats the ego.  Its clear to me that you are not awakened either, and you are an idiot, because youre speaking about things you dont have a clue about.  How can a "non existent" ego do what it wants and strive for a happiness greater than itself in the form of an external life situation?  You disclose yourself as a fool who is making this up as he goes along

  7. Posted

    Just now, Martin123 said:

    @kurt oh u got me

    Martin, youre an idiot.  Yogis dont spend 30 years in caves to become "detached from their neurosis"  Think about what you are saying, because its just beliefs based on a lack of understanding what enlightenment is.  "enlightenment" is not awakening

  9. Posted · Edited by kurt

    8 hours ago, Martin123 said:

    Enlightenment doesn't fix all your neuroses. 
    It's just a realization. That's why it can be attained at any time. But you can still be a jerk, bad with relationships, terrible at this and that. The only thing you gain is "detachment" from those issues. Which alleviates the emotional suffering. But the issues stay the same.
    Your "human avatar" (I think that Leo used this term, I like it) - your ego, stay the same.
    The only difference is that you no longer identify yourself as the ego.

    You are making this up.  Youre describing someone who had one awakening experience and the ego hijacked it and said "Im enlightened".  But thats not enlightenment.  Enlightenment is when awareness realizes that it never slept and that the person was just a thought, and that thought vanishes either immediately if the mind is purified, or it vanishes later, because thoughts come and go.  So the first scenario is called indirect knowledge where the ego "realizes the self" (which is false) and the later is direct knowledge where the self understands that it was never a person to begin with - which is enlightenment.  The enlightened mind is in harmony with life because there is nothing to gain or lose by going against life. So indeed there are no problems for an enlightened person, because all problems come from the ego ad its value judgements about life.  What you have done is listened to different opinions that sounded good on forums and now have a vision of what enlightenment is.  The ego can vanish with realization, because its not real,its a thought.  And yes, enlightenment means the end of neuroses because nobody can stop identifying with ego unless the mind is pufiried of delusions.  Its a natural state of just being ok with everything, and yes that also means calling people idiots, because if they are acting like idiots then its fine to call them one.  You only react to being called an idiot if there is a little person in there who was criticized and neglected as a child.  People in this world call each other idiots, and only egos have a problem with it. Get over it.  

  10. Posted

    @Frogfucius Its not worth arguing with these delusional people.  They are collecting information about their realized comic book heroes and projecting all sorts of egoic value judgements onto them, like martin, cant see the normality of calling someone an idiot.  Thats a sign of a deluded person who feels worthless in himself and tries to make everyone else wrong.  This is insanity

  13. Posted · Edited by kurt

    1 hour ago, Bebop said:

    @kurt What I meant was finding the true nature of reality and everything there is to know about it, of course there is nothing to achieve here. There is nothing serious about this work but the very nature of how this all came about has always fascinated me, maybe I am crazy but I find the fact that I don't exist very liberating as I am free to do as I please

    Youre an idiot  

  14. Posted

    15 minutes ago, Martin123 said:

    @kurt I understand that, I do.
    To me there are 2 levels to existence.
    1. The level where you project, you make assumptions and you conceptualize, and live in concepts.
    2. You are. You observe. You enjoy all as it is, you do not manipulate. TRUe BEING

    These 2 are not at conflict. You are describing the first level, the second level however is the essence of the sage. It is the essence of all, you cannot undo being. 
    But does it not allow to talk in concepts? On the contrary. It becomes obvious  to you that "level 2" is literally impossible to communicate. 
    You can only communicate level 2 through level 1, but never illustrate its full essence. (If you have bit of an imagination, someone who lives in 3D reality cannot communicate what depth is to someone in 2D reality, in one of my fun processes I imagine enlightenment being the 4D, undescribeable from 3D). 

    Character traits of sage - What is that?
    Language
    Concept
    Idea
    Imagination
    Memory
    - all within the first level

    Is it necessary to have this concept in becoming a sage-like character? Probably not. Is it possible to have them and still become a sage? Why not? It does not disturb the second paradigm. 
    Of course when you're unaware of this mechanism, you become a slave to your concepts, thoughts and ideas.
    But I think We should not underestimate Leo by saying he's unaware of his ideas of being a sage.

    Martin, you dont understand enlightenment.  There is only one reality, you can chose to remain in your dream and become the sick persons ideal of what they projected onto these apparent "sages" or you can actually become a real sage (a normal person) and wake up out of the delusion.  You cant be a delusional sage, thats silly.  You cant have a neurotic Buddha.

     

  15. Posted

    2 minutes ago, Bebop said:

    @kurt While that is true the purpose of what he is trying to do is reach the highest aspirations of the human vessel, after all what else is there do while we are here :P

    For you it certainly seems as if there is a highest potential or aspiration.  This is a delusion.  You can strive for it all you want as an ego, but nobody has ever got there because these are just relative concepts.  In fact, the more you believe in this and the more you strive, the more insane you are, because only the really sick people actually buy into this stuff.

  16. Posted

    @Martin123 You dont understand what Im actually saying,

    Those "traits" of a sage Leo mentioned in his video dont belong to the sages, they belong to Leo.  These are Leos delusions that he is projecting on those people.  The people hes speaking of he does not atctully know first hand, hes filtering his knowledge of them through myths and projections that other "projecting average joes" have presented these people in the light of.

    All the "character traits" of these sages were not actually inherent in these people, they are projections that bystanders put onto the person because the sages "seemed" God like, or better, or holier because the average joe projects meaning where there is none.  Sages actually just seem more developed because they are just as comfortable with themselves and their own faults.

    Once you awaken you see that everything you thought was in others was a projection of your own subjective values.  These values are delusions, they dont actually exist!

    Thats the joke that you will wake up to.  There are no sages, there are just wankers and dolls.  Were all the same.

     

  17. Posted

    10 hours ago, Orange said:

    In one of the videos, Leo talks about this, that you come to say things like: i am this tree, I am the table and the chair etc etc. 

    I don't know what he is talking about regarding this.  It could have a number of meanings.  But to answer your questions, when you know that you are awareness and not the person, you understand that everything else that is sentient is also the same awareness as you.  They are awareness with  body.  How can the sentience in them not also be the same sentience in you?  There is only one sentience, and that is awareness.  Some people call it nothingness, whatever you wish to call it, its you.  Its not even an it, is it?  Its the subject, the witness.

    10 hours ago, Orange said:

     I was sitting next to the cat earlier and took her paw in my hand and i could feel my hand in contact with her paw whereas cannot feel her paw in contact with my hand. What i mean is, the only sensations I have are those from my body, not those of the cat. And i do realise there is no way i can go into the cat's body and feel things from her perspective, but why say things like 'I am everything' when we only have our own perspective?

    Look into your experience.  Are you sat in a chair at the moment?  If so, think about how the chair feels on your butt.  Are you actually experiencing a chair at all?  Or are you just experiencing the thought of "chair" as your sense organs present a feeling to you?  What you actually experience all the time is yourself taking the form of an experience.  Your mind is formless and can take the form of anything because there is only one awareness with the same functions appearing as relative phenomena.  It certainly seems like there are many individuals here, but there is not, because all these apparent individuals are only awareness (you) with gross and subtle bodies that function exactly the same in everyone.  So where are the real differences?  Can you find any?

     

  18. Posted

    6 minutes ago, Neo said:

    But Leo - I'm a big fan of you, but this drugs thing, you must understand how this translates through different countries and societies round the world, how dangerous it is, just how simply impossible it is for some people, as well as all the stigma and stuff you would call ego. You must try to understand this has put people off your site and the whole she-bang.

    Sorry Neo, but if you don't mind me saying, this is bullshit.

    You and I have spoke before, and you may remember I'm not a big fan of the psychedelic thing either.

    But, each to their own.  And to be honest, if people can't see past their own prejudices about it, and remain open minded, then they are not even ready for enlightenment.  

    Enlightenment isnt a message you can spread like it's the next best thing since sliced bread and that all are invited.  All ARE invited, but few are capable of understanding what it takes to let go of their identity and realize who they really are.  

    Im not being a bore, that's just the way it is,  it takes a certain level of maturity to entertain these ideas and knuckle down to do the work.  So if this drugs message pisses a few people off, then so be it. Those who cannot see the value of it are simpley not developed enough.  

    That's not a judgement either, its just a fact.  Nothing wrong with it, but you got to accept the fact that enlightenment is not going to be everybodys destiny.

  19. Posted · Edited by kurt

    @Jared Gregory Jared, don't worry about switching off thoughts.  Just don't dwell on them.  If you still have trouble then you have not done any psychological work that you need to do prior to a successful meditation routine.  You still have desires for the world, hopes, maybe old grievances.  Either way, you are conditioned to extrovert, so you need to resolve your desires by making your mind peaceful by taking back projections that project subjective values onto the objects - your likes and dislikes need to be neutralized.  Once that is done your mind should naturally rest in meditation.  Remember to scan your body, because although there are no real tensions in the actual body, you may experience them in your mind.  So scan and the body part should relax.  Head to toe, and this will stop the mind going to the unresolved tension in "the body". 

    Once you have done all that and the mind can rest in awareness, thats when all the old stuff comes up.  The old stuff is not going to come up when youre preoccupied with the world.  It just wont, it will remain in the deep part of your mind and wait until you can handle it.  I think the nervous system is intelligent in this way, it does not give you more than you can handle at one time.  

  20. Posted · Edited by kurt

    No, you don't experience consciousness, because the "you" that somehow has to "experience" consciousness is just the ego, and the ego is just a thought that cannot experience anything.  What happens is you understand that you are already consciousness and that the "person" was merely a thought appearing in front of you all that time.  That's enlightenment, Samadhi has nothing to do with it because samadhi is just an experience that consciousness witnesses.  Samadhis arise and pass away in the consciousness that you always are.  Resting in the heart just means that the mind turns inward, realizes that it is you and the seeking flame goes out.  Problem solved:)  Most people "rest in the heart" every day when they get something they want.  But the reason they dont become enlightened by merely getting what they want is because they are conditioned by the thought "I need to keep seeking because I dont realize I can stay home" 

  21. Posted

    On 12/5/2016 at 7:12 PM, AlwaysBeNice said:

    >  By this I mean that you have to become the kind of person who can be enlightened before reaching enlightenment. 

    That resonates. Makes sense, if an unstable person gets too much insight it might shake the foundation of the ego mind/life too much. 

    The truth is, the person does not get the insight.  This notion suggests that you are not already enlightened.  But you are, you just believe you are a person.  So "enlightenment" means you realize you have something that you've always had.  Its like asking God to put a head on your shoulders - not even God can make you enlightened.  The only thing that happens is you realize you're not actually this person.  There is no "insight" to get, just a shift in understanding.:)

  22. Posted

    The hillarious irony of it is, hes not aware that hes projecting those values onto those people.  There are no sages, a sage doest even see anyone as any different to himself.

    Leo has been snookered by his own projection and is now setting off on a mission to actualize it.

    How very UN sage-like

  23. Posted

    @br07 You might have a unconscious value for the things that you are already doing habitually, and you might also have a value for valuing your own opinion of yourself.

    These are values you hold dear.  See if you can see them in action as you go about your day.  You need to accept that they are there, and that you actually value these self defeating habits.

    Get some distance (because you will not want to give these up when you discover them because they are more than likely a part of your identity) on them by making them "not-self".  Understand that these are just habits and patterns that you picked up from somewhere or developed out of not having knowledge about how your mind works.  

    Once you get enough distance, pull them apart - ask yourself how much these values actually serve you.  Look at them in the cold light of day and have a word with yourself.  If you see their futility, they will drop away.  It will come back, just keep accepting the conflict between your old values and the new habits you want to install and hold the paradox in mind while you keep inquiring into the self defeating value.  

    Eventually your new value will supersede the old and you will be free.

  24. Posted · Edited by kurt

    On 10/6/2016 at 2:20 PM, Xpansion said:

    I understand this concept and i even believe it to be true however the 'being with the feeling and going toward compassion' can take a long time to help undo a lifetime of conditioning. For people such as the OP and myself these beliefs are so deeply entrenched that it can feel impossible to rise above it. The feelings can completely swamp you, like the OP said they are like an atmosphere. It's like asking a fish "how's the water?"  The fish answers "what water?"  We become so used to being a certain way that we cannot see the forest for the trees.

    However, for me personally I don't see any other way but to "be with the feelings" and hope that gradually my meditation practice will create a fundamental change. It's been 5 years and the change is happening but it feels very slow sometimes.  I'm starting to think about doing something much more powerful and apparently life changing such as an ayahuasca retreat. 

    See above comment.  You need to examine your relationship to your feelings, then the feelings will change by themselves, because the feelings are not the problem, its how you relate to them thats the problem.  You just need to know that the feelings and thoughts are just patterned objects, they are not self, the self is watching all of this.  But youre not going to understand this until you clean up your mind and it stops disturbing you.  So work on your values, your rules about what should be vs. what is. This doesnt mean being a douche, it just means discovering your own douchery towards yourself that seemed so virtuous.  Its not a virtue to try to be perfect or a better person.  Just learn to accept yourself as you are with all your flaws.  Convert your need to experience enlightenment into a need to understand what your mind is doing, how it functions, and how to work on it.  Things will quickly change for you if you.

  25. Posted

    On 10/3/2016 at 11:01 PM, Joe Zhou said:

    Does the thoughts of the collective mean the common values in the society?

    Today I had a moment that might be a disidentification: I had some tasks I decided to finish today. When I had little time left, I became anxious. I suddenly asked myself: did the situation "make me anxious"? Or did I make a rule to feel anxious whenever similar situation happens?

    I realized that the situation might had absloutely no relation to my feelings. At that moment, I felt it's prosperous to think a situation have power over me.

    So can I put it this way: all the situations I believed that caused me emotional changes, positive or negative, had actually no influence on me at all? And all along it was me deciding how I should feel? And I can be free from my own rules by recognizing them as my rules rather than the "objective rules"? Furthermore, there were never "objective rules" at first place, all the rules are human fabrication? 

     

    How are you getting on?

    Sorry for the delay in replying... 

    There are no rules except the ones you make for yourself.  If you have a value of right vs wrong, then youre going to impose that value onto your thoughts and feelings.  So become aware of the values you have made up, or have been sold to you and that you bought and then see if they are serving you.  Thoughts and feelings are just collective stuff, they are the things of the mind, objects that are useful for getting stuff done.  If you believe that you are your thoughts, then create a bunch of values that superimpose projections onto those thoughts, then you are going to have low self worth, because not only have you made a false identity out of inert objects that appear in your mind, you have also created a values system that judges the imaginary person that has been created by this system of thoughts and feelings and past experiences.  

    Nothing has actually ever changed you, the only problem is you, in the sense that you have all these value judgements that you project onto everything.  This work does not take years, it just takes a little "knowhow" to do.  Make an inventory of all your values and throw out the values that make you feel bad.  You preferably want to get to the point where you dont see anything inherently wrong with life itself, because there isnt anything wrong with it, you only make it wrong by not examining your assumptions.

    Thoughts and feelings are fine, thoughts and feelings are the mind, the mind is fine, its your values that you want to look at.  Do that work and things will quickly turn around for you.