Sri Ramana Maharshi

How the heck does One talk about Enlightenment in a symbolized Language based internet discussion forum anyway? ....oh yeah, ....One at ......a time.

Finally. Been telling nerds that for years. Amen mirage bro!

1. No more Fear. (Or certainly no more of any you have imagined prior) 2. You won’t care what people think, or already don’t if you’ve chosen the life of a mystic. 3. You can create special powers and feed off them, but if enlightened you might not give a crap. 4. Purpose, Value...that’s games, no? Krishnamurti claimed the whole point of Life was to Realize. Ralston said it “Kicks Ass” 5. You’re not going to “smart off” to your boss, that’s infantile pre-manipulative crap...if you do, it was one of those delusive moments Eckart Tolle warns about. 6. Agree with #6, except it’s reciprocal is more actual in this application: Prior to Enlightenment, a bunch of crap in your mind you forgot you made up (or worse yet someone else made up — religious bullshit for example) will torture you for decades. What is seen is that at least 99% of everything the mind knew is total bull. After that, freedom from that stuff is available.

This is good advice. I’ve been bullied all my life, as I’ve almost always worn my heart on my sleeve and been openly vulnerable to hierarchical social structures. I’ve been kicked off of forums, bullied, banned. yet, this seems to be rather tricky and possibly features of the social tendencies of Homo sapiens. Question is...if authentic democracy (representation) ever broke through, would the “strong” still compete to dominate the weak? Who knows? Let’s try giving up violence and power first and see. Right now I see a lot of bitterness in this nearly 50 year sense of form... ...and I am amazed at its tenacity despite it being transparent nature. ...and of course it started in school and underneath an exterior of charisma I fell into the rabbit hole of victimcintricity. I don’t feel like this is the heart reply I wanted....Tsuki had some good stuff. Remember that there are no “Toxic People” only toxic actions. there is a new trendy thing where you can Objectify someone and it’s perfectly ok with modern culture if you say they are toxic.

This was good too see. Now to be specific...yes, as this forum poster suggests, this is truly gibberish to the unrealized, but will be “easy peasy” for the Realized. So. Of no help to the questioner, who as a seeker is still kicking the tires, of Fear. Those days sucked. These days can suck too (but not Really) ? Nasagadatta said, get it or just fall in a ditch. Maybe he said that to Wolinski...hard to recall. Lol in any case, the post was greatly entertaining.

@Mindfang413: Oh, and I'd opinion this: Stick around. The flowers bloom in Spring.

I've experienced this flavor of non-feeling. It's a state. It comes and goes. Hanging out with someone... ...fulfilling type experiences associated with that come and go. It can seem dependant upon the perception about the kind of "fun time" they may be having. So One might coalesce there to feed on that so to speak, or something. I dunno. You are around, and wishing and stuff. You have an endpoint that has "drothers about stuff". Not completely empty, still opinioning and "doing." So, when experience is nothing but Emptiness, return if you will...maybe report on the sensation of that Return. Any characteristics of that Emptiness cognizable? If so, Contemplate the possibility that some folks actually *enjoy* these types of feelings. I remember, in my life...a wiser teacher once told me (after a really FEARful experience of symptoms surrounding Insight): Some people really really like *that feeling*...seriously." ...there was wonder and amazement, incredulity from "my side" of the teaching experience, but that quote never left, and now it is ironically humorous. This all may well seem like a bunch of B.S. to you at the moment, and perhaps well it ought to. But perhaps it helps. This points back to your inquiry regarding how you are supposed to love anything. I don't know why I am bothering to write this, knowing the statistics of listening, and the likelyhood this communication is yet another attempt from my "self" to further manipulate my "self" to some singular end. Sadhu. ...

Nice. If God has you, there is no more to go for. Fin.

Dude. Sadhu. With all kindness and calm: ...it appears there is still a bugbear of "fear" between yourself and the way you are relating with what you regard as Enlightenment. At some point there seems to arise a concern that somehow Realization will compromise survival. Indeed. It surely may. It might break the whole stream/chain. Yet, after a "time" it might be surprising how far Wisdom (y) alone can go in sustaining life, and indeed skillful means (x) in perpendicular to that one, once it reboots afresh each instance. Here's an anecdote: Some robot mimes went bananas yesterday, and made monkeys out of themselves with Entheogens and the subsequent reboot of religion. Oopsie daisy. "Ignorance....ooops, I did it again..." -Britney Spears

Being is slippery, and sticky...ya know. You grasp at it, it scoots outta the way. You have a direct Consciousness of Sat/Chit/Ananda, start using words that are debased already in language, like Love, and one starts to sound pretty inauthentic pretty rapidly. I'm no damn exception. I haven't read all these posts, but what about the force that allows Shaun to love his dog in the first place. The Freedom that allows for that. Question that. Lay bare the gaps.

Shaun, My first response had some reactionary content in it. Sorry about that and I strive for Right Speech and to find a way to be a better communicator. What seemed important was to communicate the price of failing perspective in the long run and falling into bitterness. You could waste a lot of time. For the short term, in relative time... it's going to suck. No amount of forum feeding or theory or even Empathy, Bodhicitta (or whatever) is going to keep it from sucking. The wings of wisdom are two when there's a body. So the price of enjoyment is pain. No amount of Enlightenment can do away with this, since there's going to be some sort of illusion when there is a body. Yes, Cancer == Ananda (love to be). The worst part of it all, the bitch of it all... ...is that the more your heart opens to Compassion, the more Ananda breaks open and realizes Who Loves to Be (The Totality)....the deeper the pain. Broader scope of Realization, greater sensitivity. Open up and say "OW!" It's trappy to start believing we have been dealt some crappy hand out of the Entropic deck of cards. But it's easy to do. Our object oriented minds do it automatically, while our hearts burn on the alter of falsity. Thank you for sharing this amazing Tonglen experience.

Very fucking easy.... are you ready? I can give the answer.... can you God Damn take it? ... The entire framework that provides for existence and nonexistence Itself is Love. The nature of Dasein [Heidegger] Itself is Love. ... I am approaching 50 years of age. I have 1.2 lungs due to surgery for spindle cell sarcoma in 2010. I then was diagnosed with a non-related Carcinoma (different subtype of cancer) in my right kidney in 2015. Both were excized via laproscopy and knife (traditional surgery) respectively. I still live. My boxer dog died of Cancer a few years ago. Tumors all through her body. My wife and I were devastated. Her mother died of two years ago. Her father died of C.O.P.D. while we were living in his house taking care of him earlier this year. 3 months later my own dad died of a Glioblastoma (severe brain tumor) after slowly losing his mind. He used to be a Ph.D in History. Consciousness witnessed the total dissolusion of his "mind" (a nonexistant) as did us and his loved ones after attempting to keep his cath clean while he was on hospice. I moved out of my home and left all my worldly possesions to be my wife's father's full time hospice nurse, with no previous experience. Right after he died I had to help my mother with my dad. We survived. Back in 2000 I battled sever bipolar and two mental institutionalizations where I was beaten and injected with Haldol, Thorazine, and Prolixin. Life is rough, and it all occurs within an inimitible formless Absolutely Divine framework of Unconditional love. "I promise you to This." <---- funny quote from the 12th Kenting Tai Situpa of Mahamudra Lineage/Vajrayana/Tibetan Buddhism.

True dat

Yup. It's so "self-embarassing" to ponder how many times this stupid brain and eyes read that and just chose fantasy to chase over and over again. Teachers can tell us "it's not elsewhere" or "other than *this*" a hundred times and it doesn't do what the 'encounter' does for Us. All my Goodwill.

Yeah. Persuing Consciousness clarifies a lot. But after those Contemplations are mastered, he really does zip things up in a more powerful, simpler, and staggeringly deeper extent in "The Genius of Being." The practice of Vipassana was really being done hard here for a number of years (around 3 in a row, sometimes 6 hours of meditation a day). Who knows really what, if any, the correlation between meditation and Awakening (initial or otherwise or how the hell you slice it up)? Incidentally, the practice of Vipassana is still useful for some stuff, but not always done daily, even though in a way it is permament after a point regardless of formal sit or falling off a horse, driving a car...whatever. Enlightenment doesn't necessarily change shit. How could it? It is merely what's already True. What usually tends to happen (I was/am no exception) is your life gets worse because all the stuff that had pointers aiming stuff like "blame" outward, are now *absolutely* seen all the time to be within the domain of self-responsibility -- Your fucking mess. At this point, you'll tend to get lost in content either trying to fix it all or worrying about it so much you decomp or go nuts for a while, or worse. Blow out to straight Gonzo mode. Or, you have a situation where you can practice and freak out without interference (not happening while anchored to any kind of usual "laylife") until you gain further Consciousness that frees to from clinging to "The Life Reality Illusion" [Peter's parlance here] to the extent you may not even give a shit about changing the "guy/gal" who is Being "me". Some pie in the sky shit story about an Avatar who descends upon lotus feet wakes the fuck up and glows in Resplendant Perfection is the Bull. Hope you didn't find that One. He's everywhere. It's Delusion. Doing a 1/2 punch rhythm of hard Contemplation (and doing *all* the excercises and grasping Insights) of Ralston's material, then burnout and Vipassana, then burnout and switch was a good system with "the practice here"....yet, I did get fortunate and find a 70+ year old teacher who has a direct lineage to U Javana/U Pandita/Mahasi Sayadaw to train me in Noting for basically nothing and he took almost 3 years of defiled abuse from my stupid brain/body just for...apparently no reason. ;D Ok. Here's an Ultra-simple Therevada model. I know people are too lazy often, on this forum to deal with the complications of the Lakhanas and 4 truths. I guess fractal math isn't for all Millineals. In any case, here's the model in "Leo speak" so ya'll can understand it: 1.) 1st Path (Sotapanna) -- The practice has seen one "Ontological Orgasm" with understanding. 2.) 2nd Path (Sakadagami) -- The practice sees many "Ontological Orgasms" during the course of an average day (rest of mortal life). 3.) 3rd Path (Anagami) -- The practice has an abiding Direct Consciousness of Emptiness at all times, and there is no doubt of this (rest of mortal life). 4.) 4th Path (Arahant) -- Ditto on 3, but less human delusion/ignorance/pattern remains, agency seen through, nonduality available. Equivalence of Zero and Absolute Infinity...etc.etc.etc. 5.) Beyond - Of course ....as if Relativity is the only Infinite thing.

There's a way to try and Language it, like the others. Yep. The thing is, is that Understanding the very question of the Topic Starter is the very Question Itself. Untying that Knot is going all the way to "Z"

I just e-purchased Peter Ralston's "Ancient Wisdom, New Spirit: Investigations into the nature of "being" ... Not even through the introduction, and I can already Whole Heartedly recommend this to anyone who has mastered or enjoyed the material/practices contained within the trilogy starting with The Book of Not Knowing. Of course, the usual disclaimer applies... Yours truly (whatever the fuck that means?) is not affiliated with Peter Ralston in any personal or subjective way. Exchanged 2 brief emails with him in the past, simply thanking him for sharing the Wisdom and Practices in his books, but I've never had the experience of stepping into his "dojo", Ontology workshops, and unfortunately no Cheng Hsin retreats, diads, etc. Of course really, if you master the stuff in "The Genius of Being" there is literally Nothing left. Oh shit. lol. In any case. Perhaps I'll report again after finishing this excellent material, which constitutes some of Peter's studies prior to writing the Trilogy. It does seem to be true that the dude is so skilled, if one cogitates too rapidly, you could probably fall easily into Ad Hominem and create a pedestal problem/trap. Perhaps it's why I never ponied up the scratch and paid for a few weeks at Cheng Hsin. ...but this is already a multiple digression. This ain't no Leo video, and I ain't got 3 hours to keep typing and yappin. Good book packed with more Spirit than ya can shake a snake, wait.. no stick at. M

Yup. What Wisebaxter seems to need is a good paradox. Plenty here in the offerings. What can "I-I" say? Add? Subtract? Nothing. Wisebaxter: That stage is a great stage. Enjoy. Breathe deeply. A good paradox quiets the mind. So does the voice of Adyashanti. No matter what pretend little level or stage we're on, it's really great IMHO. Adya's voice. Leo's 2.5 hours of content, or Sri Nasargadatta Maharaj (especially all the stuff that contradicts the other stuff). If it's stressful, seeking is occuring. If it quiets the mind. Yay. M

Maybe on the surface at the beginning. Personalities have defilements that lie dormant in uncognized "mind". Often they have a proclivity to following. Sometimes the "leader" has complimentary delusion which helps facilitate further sleep on the part of the dreaming followers, and more often than not, the "guru" figure has not completed their work, but has fallen in the juicy trap set by those who have assembled, further deepening the illusion that the "leader" is finished and no longer in need of Skepticism's prime directive -- To see through the falsity of the self....through to the Self/Noself, whatever your persuation/cultural background. I have observed this happening in cults, to the extent that not only were all the "thralls" under the spell of the partyline delusion the cult was "selling" but also the guru his/herself was bought fully into the dream of the cult, even if he/she contrived it from the outset. Oopsiedaisy. One guy who seemed to know a lot of about this phenomenon and the energetic support it receives in "being", was the late Bill Hamilton. For further reading check out his book, "Saints and Psychopaths" That guy was a character, who used to run around with Ram Dass in the 1960's and they did wanderjhars in India etc. But he did a 2 year retreat solo in Hawaii, and according to some, made it to Therevada Arahantship, (4th path) for those who understand or have that interest. You can see kids doing that on here... ...clearly not doing the work, but waiting for Leo to serve another rivulet of Gerber from the damn baby food jar, with a tiny spoon like newborn dodo birds right out the shell. One of the traps of a Vedanta flavored community/practice model (esp. in the lazy West). --sit and wait for Enlghtenment to pour from the guru, line up for shaktipat, bend over? On the other hand, with Zen, some real Vipassana environs, you either do the work...or you gets nothing. The teacher gives you nothing. Do the work right, you gets Nothing. M

There is no such thing as "no such thing" <zip> There is no such thing. <zip> There is no thing. <zip> There is such. <zip> There is nosuch. <zip> There is not <zip> There is. <zip> is <zip> <unzip> -meanwhile between "zip" and "unzip" VOID ITself began to vibrate, spontaneously and.. Let there be such thing as 5 years after Englightenment. ........"and then 5 years appeared to pass behind the wake ripple of Eternity, and some yahoo started 'teaching'" ...And Now "I-I" give thanks. M

Totally. The best video he ever made was the one where he was freaking out laughing hysterically for about 5 minutes. At the end of his fit he said... (through a barrage of Laughter so intense I thought i was witnessing a "LySergic Delusion") "You guys are taking this stuff waaaay too seriously!" ...oh when the night, gets dark....and translucence is the only light you'll "see"... ...I won't be afraid no I won't be afraid, just as long as I-I stand alone.

I don't know Mooji. Not very familiar with his teachings, oh wait... I think I've seen some Eckart videos. Same thing. [this belongs in the "Enlightenment Jokes" section, but hey I'm a rebel] ...speaking of humor - I knew this one dude on the internet for a while who said, "I think non-advaita is really just 'non-sense'" hehe. I guess when you get down to brass tacks everything is. Everything IS'nt. Anyway, by now hopefully this post has become its own parody, so I'll spit out the meat pre-chewed: One time I was having a very hard time with Insight driven negative emotional states. In Vipassana/Therevada practice you hear "clinging to Insight" or 3rd or 4th dark night of the soul...maybe 25th, who knows. During that time I viewed Mooji's short video entitled, "Mind Attacks - Don't give up." That video gave me strength. Thank you Mooji. With Compassion and Humility. me

The kind of facilitation that was being done, IMO, only works well at least in my case, if attention is placed firmly on the talk, and remains there unwavering Samadhi-like (or better yet in Samadhi) for total Concentration during. Otherwise it's just accretion learning, and won't do shit for what the video was intended to open up. My main point was that in induced a state of mental quietude. (no monkey mind whatsover no thoughts at all) This state, the first time, in my case, lasted several hours after the viewing, during which the experience was sitting on the porch, staring into the woods, in gentle Equanimity, and Absolutely no jitter. This is rare for this human being. Also, I have read all 3 of this recent books several times and practiced the Contemplations to impressive results. It might not be for everyone. But I am also a practitioner of Yoga, which helps daily++

Girls and guys..., esteemed Elders, Victorious One(s), taintless and tainted: Peter Ralston has quieted the noise floor forever... please watch all 5 parts of his YouTube feature entitled, "Absolute vs. Relative" parts 1-5. Wow, uh.... M PS: My 2 cents for a t-shirt (please respect copyrights "I Dream of Jnani" - Pic. of Ramana or Nasargadatta on the front, caption on back. If Leo wears it, next ahem, level is automagic.

I think it refers to something Buddhists call Samvega [hardcore renunciation], but that's a humble piss of opinion and please don't believe it, just investigate friend! Some folks seem to manage super-enlightenment with Samvega and some without...go check out your case ==> enjoy! :-)