UnbornTao

The what? I'll take a look at the other thread.

You seem to be referring to perceptive-experience and the myriad of phenomenal (from phenomenon) possibilities within it. Shifts in mind state and the recognition of perceptive phenomena relate to experience or awareness, and consciousness isn't limited to either. Would it not follow from your sentence above that consciousness is an appearance? "God-realization is how reality is appearing to be." Etymology of state: "to stand." An insight can be had, yet the side-effects of that, or of the practice undertaken, are different matters. A distinction must be made between the effects of taking psychedelic drugs, and whatever possible consciousness one might have achieved.The consciousness itself "stands alone." "What? The primacy of state, and solipsism, confirmed, then." (This is a joke.) Direct consciousness cannot be imagined in any way by the mind, and it does not involve process. Consciousness itself is not a process and it precedes state - perceptual experience and mind states alike.

We're far from the point - that relates to experience, and it is based on you. Consciousness is not a state. You're taking Being to be a verb, and that is relative. Regarding "self is all" - you don't exist, and neither do I - so it's irrelevant. There's no one to be alone in the first place. Without the "absence of another," which is based on 'other', how could aloneness come to pass? 'Alone' exists relative to this distinction of "other." One thing is having the beginning realization that "everything that exists exists in my experience"; another is prematurely extrapolating that to something else, like direct consciousness or solipsism. It's fine, "the ability to conveniently interpret our perceptions - and so virtually “create” a world that we believe in or wish to be so - is very strong in humans. We do it all the time, especially with “spiritual” pursuits." Awareness is a limited form of consciousness, as are intelligence, attention, the mind, and perception. The question of what consciousness is is really up for grabs. These refer to the various phenomenal possibilities within perceptive-experience. The description above is full of "this and that", process and action. Psychedelics states can be dramatic, and yet they are still experiences, not much different from seeing a sunset or falling in love. Beyond the phenomena, thoughts you have, what you believe, visions you might have had, etc., what are you actually and presently conscious of? Usually the answer is nothing. Certainly an insight does not disappear when the drug does, when you stop meditating, or when your state changes. And the insight is different in nature from memory and conclusion.

I tried it once, and it might have caused me an allergic reaction. I like L-Theanine.

But what if mind is a context too?

It's not a science. On the other hand, some basic theory can be useful to orient one's mind a bit, as long as the theory is given its proper place of placeholder or possibility. Practice is ultimately what anchors your mind and attention and what produces the results, even if they are relative. Study and contemplation round out the trifecta of this endeavor - contemplation being the only main practice in this case. Everything is relative, including the practice you may take up. That said, actions still have consequences. Generally speaking, inquiring is "better" than watching TV when enlightenment is the goal. Why is that? Who knows? At the same time, while living in the relative world, it is also possible for you to apprehend your own nature. Go figure. For sure, and we don't want to put the responsibility out there either - in a practice, method, or another person. It must be clear from the beginning that you are the one to make the leaps in consciousness. Everything else is indirect. Actually, I'm not entirely clear on what doing nothing would look like in practice. The more we look, the more we can find a plethora of activities that we're continuously engaged in, even if they are subtle and unrecognized. But I get your point. Yes - can't transcend what you are not conscious of.

@PurpleTree Got it, thanks.

The dream of being someone who doesn't care about consciousness may turn out to be made of consciousness! By the way, which thread do you mean? Hey, being busy isn't the same as ignoring. You just wanted an instant answer.

😂 Tiny emoticon.

I see, taking preemptive action to shield yourself from disappointment.

It depends on the distinction you draw with that term. But it's better to ask what it actually is. You are conscious - and aware, perceiving, cognizant, attentive - not necessarily in that order. Try to sort out those distinctions or directly ask yourself: Who's being conscious? Who is this one? After that, you can ask what that is made of. Those are some of the instructions we hear.

State is not the same as consciousness!

Oh no, no such thing. It's about the potential to refine our listening abilities. There, that sounds more elegant.

I'm sorry you think that. Nice twist to the name

Becoming directly conscious of your nature or the absolute nature of existence. I'd avoid trying to sort this out into a playbook or anything like that. Whatever's ultimately true is the goal with that. @Sugarcoat @PurpleTree you guys have no patience

I see, thanks for that.

Enlightenment is always a sudden increase in consciousness. It is not a process, even though what precedes it may contribute in some ways - such as by being open and wanting to know. That's the "direct" aspect. Everything you think about in relation to this matter will involve some kind of process, which is fine. Again, that is largely irrelevant to enlightenment itself. It may affect the body-mind, and these are side effect that come after the fact. Sure, the physical world we share works a certain way, as does your body. They aren't random occurrences. This belongs to the relative domain. You can't work your way around gravity, for example. One should actually set aside everything they think they know about awakening and confront their experience as it is - contemplating, usually, the very one they are (or take themselves to be).

@Razard86 How are you holding state? When one's human self dies, what state will he or she be in? See, could you be sleepy and enlightened? The question would be irrelevant in the first place. The notion of "state" doesn't really directly apply to consciousness, as the latter precedes the former. Would you be less (or more) awakened if you got drunk, or if you hit your head on the bathroom counter - or fell in love? There might be degrees of awakening, but those seem more related to the depth of a person's consciousness than to the truth itself. We're most likely already assuming ourselves to be "persons," too, to whatever degree. State itself is relative. I think you might be referring to (altered) mind states, which are invariably a function of biology - unless you're holding state differently - but how could they be absolute? State involves process and can (and does) change, because it's about perceptive-experience. For example, Sugarcoat brought up the brain. I propose that there's no such thing as "state" without a brain. But again, maybe we're using these terms differently. It's like the hardware and software of a computer, while consciousness is the electricity - so to speak.

No. And I do. The brain is part of the body. Beyond speculating, notice that no ending of activity needs to take place, nor is it necessary to engage in yet another process. It's simply recognizing what's already the case. You may think of yourself as needing to be 'fixed' first before being "worthy" of such a "grandiose" event, but that's not necessary. It's what you are now. You’re making up a requirement in your mind, whereas "getting it" is the only indispensable one. And if you're Leo, you're shit out of luck getting a new haircut.

Why would rewiring the body be necessary for enlightenment? In my view, it'd be like asking for a new haircut before waking up from a dream.

I'm not familiar with his work but I've heard of him and read some of his poems. Interesting person. Why do you ask?