UnbornTao

Haha, yeah. But also consider that appearance is inconsequential to depth of consciousness. There have probably been creepy zen masters throughout history.

Fair enough. However, distinguishing charlatans from authentic teachers is a skill that can be improved. Is the teacher spouting beautiful-sounding words, just entertaining his students? Or is he actually coming from authentic experience and communicates for people to grasp things for themselves? Big difference. Feel it. People get caught up in the social aspect of the teacher. Charisma, smartness, big following, whether it entertains or validates your worldview, etc. are insignificant in making the above distinction. Ramana is better (authentically and deeply enlightened) than most, IMO. So I study him instead.

@RedLine Thanks for bringing that up. Do you know where I can find that reference? Was it in a book or a video?

Yep, seems like it.

Which ones? INTP here.

Juicy anthology. Excellent for when you want inspiration and beauty. Poems from Kabir, Hafiz, Santa Teresa, Meister Eckhart, among many others.

Well, I would imagine the first requisite would be to notice your own and to become free of them.

@Guru Peter Jordanson nah. The criteria: Is the teacher honest, authentic, clear, direct? Or is she merely entertaining you, is smart, or says things you like to hear? And: is she coming from direct experience or just exchanging beliefs and intellectualization? Feel it. That will leave out most teachers. Authentic: Ramana Maharshi, Vernon Howard. Charlatan: Deepak, Tolle (in many things not related to enlightenment), Alan Watts (really eloquent and smart charlatan.) I like him though.

A belief system, certainly for you and Leo. Likely beautiful sounding nonsense that people eat up because it sounds exotic and give them a way to deal with the raw fact of death. If it has an Indian word, better still. If you can die and still function… How would others know? What the term is actually pointing toward is that you die. Others are the ones holding that belief. “Spiritual” hearsay you haven’t experienced — hence belief. Like ghosts. People say they’ve seen them, others parrot that. I’m using belief in a wider sense: the earth is round is a belief you hold. Your nature is what it is now.

Seems like a good charlatan.

@WaveInTheOcean thank you

I think he’s said that “giving out” the answers gets in the way, and that he did that in some of his old workshops. It’s easy for people to hear the words, make them into a fantasy, believe in the fantasy, and assume they understand. We create a cosmology which is ultimately useless. He now redirects people to focus on their own experience, and makes them question what’s all that about. That’s why he makes a distinction between being a teacher (sharing information) and a facilitator (guiding people in becoming conscious for themselves). Just some consideration on my part.

oh that’s interesting @asha176 but do so with a mask and social distancing

@Eren Eeager careful, potentially addictive.

Contemplate what the trauma is really about. It’s not easy, but that’s the essence: you can’t heal it until you grasp what it is. Traumas are usually suppressed and ignored. Whatever brings the trauma come to the surface, will help you heal it. Psychedelics, contemplation, journaling, self-reflection, therapy. Books won’t. It will probably take more than just an intellectual consideration for the trauma to be healed. In other words, deal with the trauma head-on, directly. Allow it to fully show up, and try letting go of it.

@Hen Zuhe Sólo en inglés!

@Leo Gura can You revolve around You? More like an intellectual question, I’m not conscious of my nature. Still, I’m confused on that level.

All of the above

Here you’ll find many lectures by him on video! Vernon Howard on YouTube

Cool

Sounds like the only solution is total acceptance and surrender. Let the pain be there. It’s okay.

@Leo Gura Eloquence!

Death, fundamentally. A different matter is how willing most people are to admit it.