Telepresent

@yangmilun ok, ok. I think I see where you're coming from, and that this argument isn't going to help. Explore in yourself what is the I that makes choices, and commands motion. The I that picks up a stone or a fork. Dissect it

And a beautiful example of intentionally missing the point

Quotes are bullshit. Unless you are deeply understanding of the context, they are meaningless. I'm willing to bet I could quote mine Hawking to support an argument that the earth is flat

@yangmilun so you going to take everything he says as absolute truth? Who even is he? Some guy on the Internet You going to trust his conclusions about life even if they make no sense to you? Must mean you're wrong?

@Enlightenment So try again

@Ibn Sina who said you CAN understand?

@yangmilun Who said you need to understand?

@yangmilun hang on. Only half of my reply posted. And I didn't save it...

@yangmilun sorry, I literally just did an edit!

Built different. End *edit* ok, let's be a bit less sarcastic - although my original reply stands. Your 'empty fish container' doesn't come close to scraping the surface of thinking about imagining how complex the physical world is. As such, they play by different rules

@Dwarniel Sounds to me like you're debating bouncing from one pole to another pole. Your life doesn't have to be the daily grind for money if you choose to restructure it, and your development doesn't need to be so extreme as to dominate everything and be hard and boring. If you want to go for the centre, fine, but it sounds a bit like you're reluctant, so maybe ask yourself if you've really done everything you can in your current life to get out of the grind, do something more worthwhile (to you), and give you the time and space you want to explore spiritual work without locking yourself into something that sounds like it might not be working for you. Our attitude to work is often based on belief, and enforced by the people close to us (particularly parents), as well as being 'just what we've always done and changing career now would be foolish'. I'd suggest examining the work you are doing, and why, and why you dislike it. Explore what you enjoy doing (in life and play), what special knowledge you have, and think about how you can turn that into a source of income (note: not 'work', but a way to live how you like living anyway, which brings in money) 'Work' doesn't have to be a terrible drag to scrape just about as much cash as an employer will let you - but it takes knowledge, self-understanding, and effort to get to that point. BUT if I've misread you and what you really want to do is go to the centre, then do it. Just treat your reason with the same scrutiny I just suggested with your work. Make sure it's genuine, and once again not from a sense that you 'should'

@Enlightenment I'd argue you haven't disproved anything. You've tried to use two hypotheticals to mitigate the statement. Nothing is disproven

@Meditationdude Find other sources

That logic doesn't work though, because a lot of the things you mention are not thought first, experience later; instead they are experience first, thought later

Minds love patterns. But minds are also lazy. 11:11 is a very recognisable number. If you look at a clock at the same time every day for a week, and that time is 12:53, you're probably not going to notice it. 11:11? Maybe you will? For me, I never noticed 11:11 until I was told to notice it. Now I notice it all the time. Doesn't mean it is or isn't important. But, for me, I've been watching that time for years and nothing of significance has ever happened at that time. Does it mean that it's not a thing? No. But you have to examine that shit in your life for yourself. We can't tell you. Maybe 22:22 would have the same impact if everyone used military time and were more conscious of watching the clock in the evening (as opposed to when they're at work). Or maybe 11:11 is mystically important in your life. How can I tell you either? Your exploration.

@Viking An alternative perspective not to be dismissed: sounds like some of the symptoms of a low-level depression. Might be worth a little research to be safe

Brilliant. All of these questions are MASSIVELY important. The trick is to work through the answers yourself, not seek a) an answer here, or b) an opponent here. You're not going to be satisfied unless you dig through this yourself

@Bryanbrax Ok well be careful not to jump to any conclusions. At that age he's not far past the point where he's learned to distinguish that what is being told to him in a story isn't actually happening right in front of him. So if he goes into a mind-story, and inhabits it for 10 minutes, what adult here will know what that experience would be like for him? Also, did you actually ask whether this was something that he thought was real or just something he imagined?

Yea, I just want the know from what authority you put words in the teacher's mouth?

@SoonHei I guess I meant, are you writing from what Tukmo knows or what Jim knows? Truthfully?

@Dylan Page I've not bothered reading the last three pages. The answer to your question lies within an examination of the word "why", and the assumptions it implies. But you have to go all the way with the assumptions. ALL the way

Just look at what is in front of you and try not to define it. FORGET yourself. Look at something else. Right now, you may be looking at a screen, a forum, writing, white and black and colour... *Just* look at it and let the real underneath the words /emotions come through *it's not as easy as 'just', but...

@BlessedLion I haven't bothered reading the other responses so maybe someone has said this. You're not going to be *better* than anyone else by doing this work. Not smarter, more aware, more important, or NO - NOT MORE CONSCIOUS But that's what your post stinks of: "I'm BETTER so why aren't I happier?" This is the grand vulgarity that this channel and such promote: a heirarchy. There isn't one. Not really. But you feel it and if hurts and the only thing I can say is GET AWAY FROM THE SOURCE OF PAIN

Lol OK, so aside from verbal blutterbatter...? (by the way, I'm not trying to do one of those "I'm so clever I'm going to do a zen question which doesn't address anything in your post" answers. I want to know from which perspective you write)

@SoonHei Are you Tukmo or Jim?