Dodo

What I mean by enlightenment is Buddha's definition - end of suffering. The knowledge needed is out there and we have the opportunity to get guided there by thousands of years of work cummulated up to this moment, made by the wisest of the wise ti aid us. Ofcourse its easy.

Yeah as is everyone else. This is the game hellooo?

Enlightenment is hard only because of the belief. This is the true dogma and is sad that minds will never let go of the idea its super hard. If You expect enlightenment to mean you are superhuman you will most likely never get there. Its for absolutely everyone. But here comes the problem with words. Maybe what you mean by enlightenment is different than my definition

Self enquiry also engulfs shadow work. So you can do shadow work obviously and as i said, self enquiry doesnt stop you from doing what you're doing, it only detaches you from illusion. It can only help the healing process. But sure i will apply for the jobb you recommended if i find any offers in this economy

If it's so, i dont see why you are telling yourself that you cant yet do self enquiry....

That's what im telling you, its a misconception that you have, you can self enquire from any point of the flow of life. Its self destructive only if you take yourself for illusion. What is true cannot be destroyed, so there is absolutely nothing to worry about. Who you are cannot be destroyed. It's an amazing process, you dont need to repress anything, let all of your bodymind and ego come forward and you see its not that big of a deal. You are always beyond it ane allowing it to be. Let your bodymind be as it is and exactly as it is at the moment, you'll just be observing from the strategic hidden position of the true self that can never be hurt by life's happening. That way you can allow yourself to experience emotions fully and trully understand that thought and emotion can never hurt you, because they are just happenings inside you. You realize its just a happening, all of it, and you dont need to label it, then you're free. But you decide, i might be talking complete crap, it just makes a lot of sense to me personally.

Emotions should be dealt with the same way as thought. They should not be any more important in my opinion. Sepf enquiry doesn't only need to be a who am I. Every thought and emotion is helpful for self enquiry, as one can ask, who is the one experiencing this emotion/thought. Which is equivalent to asking who am i. This is true self enquiry and i only say this to you because you said you havent got much experience with serious self enquiry. What im trying to get at is, that its not self enquiry s fault and its not a reason to stop it if ego is weak. Problem comes when not doing it the right way (when one does it mechanically and not during the flow of life)

This is purified ego, still illusion. But I agree, continuous unbroken peace of mind due to the deepest and simplest understanding (Enlightenment) eventually lead to the outcomes you specified. One can struggle to achieve them or let go to the truth that is already here now. You really need self enquiry its the most important to get the self enquiry realisations and to be able to nourish them and let your ego remember it is unreal. Thats one of the ways to permanently detatch from it i guess, and only when you detach from it comes the true peace of mind which allows that ego to transform and purify by the will of God.

For the kitten to become a dragon only the realisation that it is not a kitten is needed. No time required. Purification comes after, if this realisation of no self is nourished. Give love to nothingness/conciousness , not to the false ego you are trying to transcend. This will get you deeper in the web of it and then you'll just have to jump down from higher up. Also dont underestimate the kitten, it can grow perfectly fine without you, because it is already doing it. We ain't doing anything, its all the kitten.

Im not disagreeing as to piss on your idea, i disagree with the intention to help you see the simplest truth, which will quickly change your idea of enlightenment. As someone said here already, enlightenment is not the raising of awareness, its the first thing before you start raising awareness. Its like realising the number 0, on which now you can start building. Everything becomes a game, even neurosis. You can observe it, it's not you. Now you can drop it. ITS NOT ONLY FIGURE OF SPEECH THAT ENLIGHTENMENT IS THE EASIEST THING, ITS THE LIBERATING TRUTH. What comes after it is the hard part, but its like a hard game, not soperson al anymore. Lets play

It seems like you are in the part of your journey where you still are deeply identifying with your body and the ego that can be depressed. You are judging a lot and dont realise if you were me you would write the same things <3 i know this to be true, because it is already the case. What I am saying is that even if the person looks depressed to you, and feels depressed and is depressed, that doesn't mean they are depressed. Its the illusion that is depressed. We're here in this forum for enlightenment. It is the ultimate cure. Why would people need to wait for something that is their true nature already? Ps : I dont know your inner state while we are corresponding, and you dont know mine. Any energy is not who you are, so whatever you sense is not the other nor you .

Fear of letting go.

Rali does not know it all. One cannot know the inner world of others, one can only know their own self, so one should not judge others. If a person looks like they are escaping on the outside, that doesnt prove anything about their inner state. Just like a person can look calm when they are neurotic inside, a person can look neurotic when they are calm inside. It is all part of the bigger picture and is perfect.

Exactly, spot on. I dont get all the fear is about, fear is just in mind, we are beyond mind. If there is neurosis it means his mind is fighting the truth, so its helping him know hes not doing something right, its all good.

For me its simple: Non judgement and not caring can be synonymous in some cases, the two concepts meet. Why would not caring about a situation be bad. Not caring about it is a direct result if not judging reality. But if the not caring is directed at people, it's different. One can at the same time not judge people and still care about them. In fact when one realise that everyone else in truth is the same one, caring about others and not judging them will happen automatically. (which is the substance of true love ?)

Does it also mean that if we rid our selves of judgement we get rid of the bad part of ego? I'm experiencing joy and peace of mind currently, after fully realising everyone and everything is just the way it should be, including me. This coupled with the realisation of no I and the dropping of center of conciousness to the chest area. Nothing special really, but it feels lovely, even if it's non enlightenment. It is how it is.

It's illogical to judge anyone, even yourself if one has realised the illusion of free will. Everyone and everything is the way it should be at this moment. If judging arises, one should remember if they were in the shoes of the other, they will act the same way. There is no separate "soul" within every body, so Johny will be Johny no matter what. And if we add our spiritual understanding also, because until now i was just talking about what the realisation of no free will should bring, the awareness experiencing johny is the same awareness that is experiencing Dodoster and everyone else. So yeah only ignorance can judge and its a good way to see if you've attained liberation When we see another we need to notice the one subject (self) experiencing their bodymind object (including ego) and the subject experiencing our bodymind object (including ego) is the same. The only thing is to think about the best way to help them on their journey with our words or actions, because they are us.

@WaveInTheOcean I'm halfway through reading your comment, and will continue it later, but just need to ask about law of casuality - do you mean law of causality or is this law of casuality something I am not aware of yet? It's probably a typo. Forgive me, but your post is a big wave in the ocean to read all at once

But like what i am trying to do is point to you through logical understanding the experiential understanding. Im trying to tell you that ANY experience is good enough to follow it to it's root and find that you are there, silent, not judging, definitely not the body, definitely not the mind. You can get there from any experience, because if it is not ever present and unchanging it is not you. Im speaking from experience here, everyone that knows me knows I am pretty bad at learning things. If i didnt have the present moment experience of that, i wouldnt be able to talk about it.

It doesn't need to comprehend, it needs to relax. Actually if it wants to comprehend it all, it will do the opposite of relax and accept... It will be striving for and resisting being 'unenlightened'

Would guess it's an amazing experience. It is still an experience however. It has a beginning and an end - I have no authority to talk about that, because I haven't tried it. But from where I stand, it is not experience one should be seeking, but the question - who is experiencing this? Then maybe the experience of infinity will come on its own. For me it's simpler to think about enlightenment as the end of suffering and not as the experiencing of God, because if it's meant to happen, you will experience God(infinity) in due time. But any specific experience has beginning and end, and we have to be looking not for extraordinary experience, although if we can get them - THATS AWESOME, but for the right here and now and how we can be satisfied and happy in the present moment right now and in this "ordinary" life experience. One has to see that the ordinary is also extraordinary. 5MeO is conditional and not everyone has access to it, but who you are, you always have access to that and always are that, even when seemingly in illusion.

Let me get this straight, you currently have logical knowing and seek experiential knowing. You see my post which shows you that you have experiential knowing right now and always had, as another piece of logical knowledge that you don't need because you already know it? That seems like you are in a loop and stuck in identification with the mind. It's your ego right now that you gotta shake off a little bit - the mind is telling you that you need something extra-special to make that shift from logic to existential knowing, where in fact you are doing it all the time. Sorry yes, my ego also hates when people tell it things it already knows, but we gotta be aware that this is part of the problem. Maybe from things you already know you can still learn something new by getting it in your present moment awareness. Like revisiting an old book.

I guess yea if you want to experience that you are awareness, so to know it 100% without a doubt, then you have to do something - The bodymind has to practise - but what sort of practise. If your goal is to see you are awareness, you can only do it right now. So you choose to practise, even that you are aware of - you are not the bodymind that seemingly is doing the choice, but are the one that notices the bodymind making a decision and acting it out. The bodymind is within you and you are within the bodymind. I do have a meditation habit and exactly in one of those sessions I notice this shit that was so obvious all along - I am aware of mind, I am aware of sensations, I am aware that I am aware. Who is aware? I am awareness and it's only identification with thoughts and believes that tell me who I am from past conditioning that make me suffer - but I acknowledge they are thoughts and beliefs and see that I am aware of even them, I am beyond them, so they are now all of a sudden easily crushed by the light of the new understanding. You do have existential experience even now - do you not? You don't need a 'Mystical' experience to know that you are and you always are, never changing, emptiness behind every experience. You've never been not that . Normal experience, Dream experience, Mystical experience - It's all experience!!!!! Experience is all you need to have to know you are that which allows the experience to be. Without your awareness(you), this experience will not be one, it will be 0 and it will not be an experienced at all, so will be skipped, until you show up again and allow another experience to be. Your mind seemingly has a choice : Suffering or Peace of Mind. Suffering is resistance to what is, Peace of mind is acceptance of what is. You can never not accept, if you are that which always accepts everything, even resistance - what is that entity? Awareness, you. The mind can learn to accept or fail to learn to accept, but you will accept either option, as it is God's will and life will unfold as it should. Your only job ever is to be aware of it and you are doing it effortlessly.

Awareness can only communicate with awareness through Ego. When all is one, we can never have a conversation as we are having now. This Ego is not 'Enlightened' and no Ego can ever be. Ego can only be purified, and no, this Ego is far from purified and it is flawed as fuck, but the realisation is simple - the word enlightenment should be banned, because it makes the realisation into something you have to work really hard for, but it's the prerequisite to starting to live IMO and the start of the real purification process. As Buddha put it : Enlightenment is no suffering. Suffering stems from desire ( For me it's better to say that suffering is resistance) . When you really get that you are not in control and it's all god's will and all you do is be aware of God's will and surrender to it, you are going to live without suffering. Your mind will be at peace and the game will unravel as it always would have, but without the mind's resistance to it which causes the suffering.

My opinion: I think this is a misconception. If you have to give effort, then it is not the truth we are searching for, right? You should be yourself effortlessly. It's like you are trying to climb a mountain, while in fact you are already on the mountaintop. You are always uninterruptedly aware, when you find you are awareness itself, it will be silly to claim otherwise. However, you have no free will and the bodymind is like a machinebox for pleasure and pain that you are also allowing to be and mistakenly take yourself to be, so now you practise, trying to become what you already are. In fact all you do is being aware, everything else is God's will that you experience (When you take it for your own will - that's where suffering stems from).