theleelajoker

I have very similar experience. For me, talking to people in these states feels like taking to previously unconscious parts of me. Reminds me a lot of the inception scene https://youtu.be/eo5AV4ve7Nw?si=BqF7Hz1RYiJzW0y5

Nice text. Lots of stuff resonated. For me personally, I like to add a bit of playfulness whenever I am able to. Otherwise everything becomes so serious and I had more then enough serious thoughts and experiences so far

Thx for sharing

Statement 2 is sth that I realized just short time ago. You can't influence what appears/ happens. Only choice is to resist or to do it. And re your previous post: I had indeed many many times the experience of God protecting me. It's like jumping from a cliff and then realizing that someone had built a net to catch you long time before you even considered jumping...

Yes, I too believe that location matters. I am aware that much of my development is only possible because I have privileges that allowed me to do what few can do. Yes I overestimate their level of openness, readyness. It's a problem because it scares people away. Imagine someone wakes you up with a bucket of water vs. gently touching you. It's also a problem also because in such situations I place awareness and intention OUTSIDE and on result instead of focusing inside and on what I want to express. Expectations are created, and that creates resistance, and thinking etc. Inside vs outside and expect vs express are a programms that I am changing step by steps but it costs me and others lots of energy in the past. Over time and with many failures there is of course progress. My impression is that deeper exploration of my inner world let me become more and more skilled in communication and seeing my potential influence or its limits

For me: I know it when I see it. Typically, I am too optimistic

Go make your experiences. Do whatever you feel is right. If you suceed, I congratulate : ) If you find that you are feeling like Don quijote fighting the wind mills - don't take it personal. That's just the way the cards have been stacked

Yes I feel like sharing too. But I learn to see it like that: The knowledge about basically everything is already there. Everybody can read Stanislav Grov, Yogasutra, Buddhas teachings, etc etc etc. Everybody could so shadow work, therapy, meditation etc. But few are doing it. So why is the world they way it is? Because everything is a process. Same reason it took me many years and different people for me to slowly wake up (still doing that, oc). It's like playing a puzzle. Imagine you come and tell this person how to do this. No fun for nobody. If they ask for support - that's sth else. I also like Alan Watts quote: "When you dance, you don't dance to get to the other side if the room as fast as possible. You dance to dance".

Do it yourself. Just do you. To not try to communicate it. Let people disvover it on their own. If they are ready, they will ask for guidance. If not ready, you waste your engery and get frustrated in the process. Why do I think that? Personal experience. Many failures in trying to convey messages. The psycological concept of reactance comes to my mind.

Very true in my experience. Nice words. Impossible for me at this stage to not see that others are parts of me. I am learning that I don't need to change them, can't change them. I feel like you have to let these parts and energies play out. Like you say, just do your thing and stay equanimous as much as possible. While oc also setting and keeping healthy boundaries.

Great question. Remained unanswered so far as I can see?

If not action, then what is the criteria for you to be enlightened?

I think it's a good question. My take is that there are some "rules" to this reality that are - for humans - more or less impossible to break/bend. We need oxygen to be alive, gravity eg. Some can be bend more easily. Placebo effect for instance. Other mechanism are up to our imagination. How we see others, relationships, ourself comes to mind

Like that analogy. Only addition is that it is not only language but all ways we use to express ourselves.

So while I agree, I don't do that consciously. Or at least I haven't found a way to consciously manifest people, event and stories. Don't even know if I want that, absolute control is boring I guess?! So what remains? 1) Try to make the unconscious conscious to get more control 2) Totally let go of control. Go with everything that is happening bc I "know" that deep inside it's me, even if I don't "know" right now 3) Balance in between 1) and 2) 4) ? [Please fill in]

@Princess Arabia I like your idea. Going for real experience instead of stories and hearsay. For me, no I haven't seen that. Neither the process, nor a "final" enlightened person. Moreover 1) A person on a screen doing a video is just that. People only show what they want to show. Who knows what is going on with the persons life outside the video. 2) Same for any book, or audio or whatever 3) For me, the real measuring stick is seeing a person in live in situations that are difficult for him/her. See what and how they do it. "Strictly speaking, there is no enlightenment person but only enlightened action." (don't remember source of quote)

OK thx for clarification. I get your point. Also not being a bit fan of idealistic ideas. I just realized that I spent a lot more time alone than I used to in other periods of my life. (still have a gf and close friendships, though. Not many, but some)

1. Bold marked - this just made me realize one (major?) reasons why I was much less social in recent time. I was doubting myself, but I can see now how my tendency to loneliness is a good thing 2. Can you elaborate on the "Individualism downplays the role of other people in our lives, because... it has to. In that sense the paradigm is wrong." please?

What if starting tomorrow, one pretends that Life is like living lucidly in a Dream? Imagine that life is lived like this: What would you do? What dreams would you fulfill for others and for yourself?

Yeah, I agree. For whatever reason, it's doing > knowing, doing > thinking, doing > understanding. Thoughts etc seem just to be a support wheel, the same way you learn how to ride a bike.

Yeah I get you. I guess I was projecting a bit with the idea if helping others. For me it helps if I feel understood. So I want to talk and teach about these things. Which means I need to help people understand what's actually going on. Which fails in 99% of cases. It's sad, but on a personal level, there is actually nobody I can talk completely honestly about all this. I hinted sth with our very experienced Vipassana teacher and even he did "pretend" not to know what I am talking about. The false self is really incredible strong...

I just came back today from a 10 Day meditation retreat (Vipassana after Goenka). I went deeper than I ever went before. Many things they say in the instructions manifested step by step. And I was and I still am a very long distance from further steps and deeper experiences they describe. Still, the insights are invaluable. A lifetime of wisdom compressed in 10 days. I open this forum and see this thread. I go through all the posts from the beginning until now. Pretty much everything @Breakingthewall says resonates as true for me, very much aligned with my experience. @Breakingthewall I admire your patience, again and again discussing, explaining, taking up points, giving examples. I guess reality leaves you with no choice but to do so, creating a strong desire to awaken people, to break through barriers. Your posts helped me (a lot) and surely helped others but due to the nature of this forum a lot of your energy might unfortunately being wasted. Intellect is very limited and understanding fragmented at this mental level. I am at a point where I see that direct experience is what helps most. Direct experience through meditation. Slow, steady progress. Psychedelics are a dangerous game, it shocks the organism and many can't take it. For everybody looking for answers I can only say one thing: Divert attention inside and you are likely to eventually find all answers you are looking for. Edit: Two things that help most: 1) direct experience and 2) a good sense of humor

OK, that left an impression on me. Nice post.

For me, truth has a very practical purpose: It's incredibly exhausting to pretend that things are other than they are. And it leads nowhere. I am insecure and try to pretend otherwise? People will notice anyway. So I can stop wasting my resources trying to cover this. I want to make the next step in my development? I need to accept things as they are to change them. I will not be able to change what I don't accept I want to have a fulfilling live? I need to find out what I truly want instead of chasing wishful thinking Lastly and most importantly: In my experience, life mirrors and reflects me. So if for instance I want to find the right partner for me, I need to send out actions that are as authentic and truthful as possible. Because if I don't, life will always reflect someone that does not reflect my true desires and needs. It will reflect a fake image of who I want to be instead of who I am. Self-sabotage at its best.

Bold marked by me. On a scale on 1-10, how sure are you about that?