theleelajoker

@Judy2 You like music? I like to take a walk with my headphones and sing to songs I like.I also like videogames. Those are things that have no desirable result, no bigger purpose except for doing it for the sake of doing it. (Don't want to become a singer or pro gamer) Reading for entertainment, not to learn, might be something. I like character - driven fantasy books or historical stuff. Feeling, putting attention in your body, also might be something. Simple curiosity of "ok how does this or that part of my body feel right now?" The key is to be a) deeply involved into some activity and b) feel like the activity itself is the purpose. What exactly these activities are for you, that of course I don't know just giving ideas to maybe support your process

Wow that's an interesting post, didn't know where this is going until the end. I don't remember being physically attacked in a way you describe. What I have experienced - personally and told by others - is that people leave situations that are actually good for them. They seem to can't handle being loved. Seemed strange: Everything is ok, why sabotage yourself and leave? During my last Vipassana retreat I got very deep in meditation and in this state I believe to have recognized that the reason is in line with the comment of @samijiben. There is fear of loosing that good situation, and out of fear for the "good" to end they leave before they get more used to it, before they go deeper into this connection. It's a "ok I'm still in control I can end it on my terms" > it's ending for reasons beyond my control. It has some logic, and seems to be "normal" for humans in some areas of life, but of course EVERYTHING ends and you miss on all the incredible loving experiences that could have been.

You made me laugh, thanks! It's true, one doesn't need drugs to see and know this. But KNOWING something and FEELING something are two very separate things. Let's face it, NOBODY REALLY knows what's going on. Who's projecting what on whom, why and when? What's symbolic, what's real, what's illusion? One person saying the world is about [XYZ], because he/she realized this on substance [XYZ] or on meditation [XYZ]. Then second person comes, proclaiming a new truth [XYZ], because he/she realized this on substance [XYZ] or on meditation [XYZ]. Then person A and Person B fight about what's the right [XYZ] and why [XYZ] of the other person is wrong. And people assume that there is one [XYZ] for all and call that "true" or "real" or "what it's about". Maybe, maybe not. Maybe there are infinite [XYZ], who knows? @tashawoodfall I also had some strange ideas, feelings on substances. Nothing re doomsday, but the main character thing, sense of agency, or the idea that something needs to be done. Is it ego, is it projection, is it a message, it is just my subconscious fooling around, is it a cosmic joke, is it a mission, is it a mechanism of creating meaning in a otherwise meaningless world, all of it, none of it? Who the fuck knows. But psychedelic "revelations" can be tricky, I wouldn't "believe" them just based on this one experience. So what to do with it? Go and find out. Action, action, action. Test your hypothesis. Figure out how much is symbolic, how much is projected etc etc. If you truly know, then acting seems like the right choice. Get in touch how things feel, instead of how you think about it. Action and the feedback will most likely show you if you're moving in the right direction. At least, that's my [XYZ] for you And who says that this world is "just" an illusion? Maybe creating in this dimension is all we got, all that matters? Who knows? To say it with the words of Esterly in "Bad man" My eyes Are blind I can't seem to tell me What I need to get right Your eyes They can't seem to understand What I've realized Realize This isn't just a dream Stuck on a bad repeat

My impression: See it as something that moves, not a final state. Ok you reach 100% NOW, and then? Life moves on, new circumstances, new situation, new challenge. You change so everything changes. Don't block yourself by saying "not reaching this or that", work with what you have / are right now.

Yeah, more focused, less ego games It's not 100% black and white, each day is a new step. Yes I can see it with so many others and myself. Unrealized potential. And it sucks. For quite I while, there is this feeling inside me of "there must be more, there must be something better then what we have right now". That feeling of "That can't be it" And I don't know about you, for me it's funny once I have - at least more or less - recognized some of my own traps, it's so easy to see it in others. Impossible to not see it. Of course, others likely think the same re myself - so honest, authentic, open and skilled interaction is key to actually realize all this untapped potential for each other.

In general valuable concepts and I generally agree with most of what you say in most of your posts. But here, my impression is that you are putting too much structure, too much intellect, too much 3-D thinking. It's a interdependent system, not an order. And does it really take one year or more? I would challenge that. Ans what does mastery mean? Skills and evolution are infinite, it's not a final stage. You are right that you cannot "jump" to one thing, 100% agreement. But IMO structuring as you it here and in your mind does not help. Look what situations reality creates for you, what people enter your life, what decisions you are forced to make, what (in)actions you take. "External" reality perfectly synchronizes with your inner energetic patterns --> that's your "structure", if you need one, but it evolves automatically, naturally, flowing with you. Trying to create a plan/order/structure with your mind is in my experience a dead end. So much my 50 cent, happy to hear other experiences and perspectives

@Breakingthewall Great OP IMO, one of your best texts as far as I see it. Also agree with most of what you and @sugarcoat say in the following discussion: Attention is key Concentrating and focusing attention, especially inwards Opening up myself --> "external" reality synchronizes with my inner movement. Once there is enough openness to be aware of that, it becomes impossible to not see it all the time I was "forced" to look inside, too. Looking for way out of trauma, certain experiences and conditions (still ongoing, but made major steps) If you experience reality as dull and dead --> I know this experience. What helped me was to feel, to feel everything and then gradually some suppressed structures dissolved and I was able to feel more, express more, live more BUT re my previous point: "No one can tell you how to do it, because each enigma has its own solution." Some pointers and information from others can be helpful...or maybe not

@Joshe Lots of agreement from me re your post. Logic and thoughts (alone) don't really help because thoughts are not the cause, but part of a system with many other parts connected. If you’ve ever tried to talk a depressed person out of it, you’ll notice the vast majority will say they want out but when you attempt to remove what got them there, they resist. That goes for basically everything, doesn't it? Eating healthy, being more social, trying new stuff, advancing in career, creating good relationships, living more happy etc etc. Nobody wants to be stuck, everybody likes the things above, everybody wants to change but there's is resistance when facing change. Because of fear. I see your points with stoping negative thoughts, and the value of story - creating and story - changing. But IMO you have to go further: the energetic structure is stored in your body, it can actually be felt during deep meditation or high states of awareness. Somatic work is key, it has to align with work on thoughts and believes. If you want to test my hypothesis, you can easily do it with fasting. When I fasten, my whole psychological and emotional structure changes. Thoughts and emotions change because my body state changes, while external stuff (work, relationships, living conditions etc) stay the same. And finally, what helps me is not so much the bypassing of emotions but really really feeling sadness etc and expressing it fully. Sharing it, talking about it.

+1 had the very same thought recently. It seems to boil down to openness vs. fear Fear - I don't want experience X to happen, I want the known Openness - I am fine or at least neutral re any experience, I am curious, I don't know, I make/ let it happen Not perfect description yet, open to ideas for improvement;)

Seeing how my experiences are stored within my body, you have a point. Don't know if plants do not store it at all, maybe much less? Anyways, good points. Practical stuff instead of ethical. Will fasten next week and then afterwards do some vegetarian/ vegan diet for a few months and see how it feels

I work in education industry. It's scary that many companies are outsourcing educational content creation to AI. Just like that, no responsibility, no bad conscience, no foresight about what the consequences are. It creates low quality bullshit, nobody really gets the stuff, it's mental self castration at it's best. Future generations are gonna be dumb as fuck re critical thinking, creativity and human interaction if we continue on this path as we are doing it now.

Identity isn't something to be cultivated internally but something to be displayed. Humans instinctively equate access with value - what is hidden is protected, and what is protected is presumed valuable. West demands you pick sides and cut ties with their ''adversaries'' publicly. In the West it's birthed a spectacle society - everything is more shallow because life is lived at the periphery acting, expressing the self, never sitting in the self being grounded. Those quotes really resonated. I can see it in daily behavior. Especially the "pick sides and cut ties." I think that's also something that attracts other people in the west to me in a certain way. I lived abroad for a while and thus are significantly "less western" then most people that only lived in the west. Western lifestyle as you expressed above reached limits, so more depth, harmony, community, connection and inner work seems to be the solution. @zazen So my gut feeling since a long time is that it's about integration. To say it simplified, "put some Westin the East and some East in the West". WDTY is the solution?

"Hey, this guy is not scared to go out alone. Pretty cool, if he feels like going out on his own, then he does it. And he doesn't need anyone else to validate himself." If have been out on my own quite a few times. More often then not, I got to know people. Random people that talked to me, I talked to random people. Men, woman, anything can happen. Sometimes I bumped into people I knew before. One time I was super depressed, went out, asked people for a cigarette, they invited me at their table. Spent whole night with them until the bar closed, we were the last guests. Life can surprise you anytime anywhere. HOW you do stuff is more important then what you do. If you carry a vibe of being approachable, and you approach people in general, then people are likely to connect with you in some way. Moreover, @NoN-RaTiOnAL has a valid point IMO. Action, action, action. Once you start, it gets easier and easier. Like climbing a mountain, after initial resistance you cross the peak and then it's a comfortable downhill movement where you actually don't need to do much except going with flow

I am highly skeptical of using AI or bots for mental health stuff. So you already are afraid of people, afraid of interacting, afraid of being with other humans - and what you do? You avoid people even more, and instead of talking to humans you talk to AI. AI which is programmed to give replies that are pre-determined, ruminating past input instead of being present and seeing the individual. Yes it's not black and white, there are some studies that show positive benefits.... but all in all I am afraid that humans are getting lost in the idea that technology can save us.

I think Alan Watts said sth like: "Just because the rabbit screams louder then the carrot doesn't mean that the one is more alive then the other" 🐇 🥕 I think there are good arguments in favor or against eating meat. Would go so far to say that it's necessary for truth seekers, that seems a very arbitrary and constructed logic. Truth is, that life feeds on other life, right?

The best advice I got was from a girl some years ago. We talked about intuition. I told a story where I was in the subway, heading the wrong way without knowing it (I mixed up the directions). As I was sitting in the subway, I got a strange feeling. I also overheard other people's conversations about stops on the way, and I had this strange impression of "hmm does not sound like the way I'm heading, strange they talk about stop XYZ". When I write this now, it seems clear, but I didn't think these words, there was just a strange feeling. It's like seeing an outline in the fog, but not enough to recognize what it is. So, I stayed in the subway and found out 30 min later that I fucked up the directions 🤣 I told this story to the girl, and she just looked at me and asked, in a friendly way sth like "why not listen to this feeling? Why not act on this feeling? What reason did you have to not trust yourself?" I had simply had no answer to these questions. Some years later, I still remember this part of our conversation. Grateful because she opened up a door for me to trust "these strange feelings" more and more over time. Women in general have been/ are a great teacher for me re intuition. Not saying that men don't have this, or cannot be at the same level of intuition as women. But watching my sister, GFs etc act has resulted in great learnings. I learned to not ask them how they do it because it gets them into their mind and then the connection to their intuition gets blurred/ lost (which might be a good pointer how to not improve your intuition 🤣)

Lots of good advice already in the posts above. Remember, everyone has some fears, and (it seems) many people have social fears, fears of interacting. Trying to hide it just makes it worse. Imagine a situation like this could happen: "Hi, I was kind of afraid to talk to you, and I don't know what to say, but I really felt like talking to you/ getting to know you" "Oh wow I have seen you, and I am interested in you, too. But I was too afraid to make the first move so I'm really happy to came to me" ---> you have an immediate connection and sth to talk about... namely how you're both afraid of talking to other people 🤣 Hi I slowly learned how to approach women was positive feedback, learning about human interaction, lot of overcoming of fear, feeling my feelings, and reaching the acceptance that I'm OK the way I am. Last point required me to interact and be the way I am first. Nothing of this happens if, as you said, you strategize your human interactions.

Interesting. How you come to this answer?

@Breakingthewallalways talks about openness. So I aim at having this openness in any interaction. Meaning truly listening, being aware of the other without projection (without thoughts of he she is saying/doing that because ..."), expressing my self authentically, being as honest as possible, and being aware of feelings and my body as best as I can, having no fear of rejection, listing to my intuition. More openness, less resistance, less fear --> integration of different (higher) state of consciousness. The way information is processed becomes very different. Can you give a concrete example how thoughts come/ came into your way? And if you want no thoughts, we should stop being in this forum right? Every word I read, I am thinking this word in my head creating more thinking. Interaction as described above has the same "fish in the water" efffect for me.

Great comment IMO. Agree. Btw, yoga sutra says very similar things. Wherever you put your intention, you'll improve. Life, God, universe - wherever wisdom comes from - will give you gradual insights as long as you put time, focus, effort. Openness and curiosity are key.

Yeah, I mean you could say that an enlightened person doesn't compare, or doesn't need to tell others how great he/she is, or the most awake etc right? Besides the world "enlightened" is a pretty arbitrary term and I don't trust anyone claiming anything re spiritual achievements without having direct experience with this person. It's "show, don't talk".

OK, sorry I think it's hard to have high quality conversation via messages on a forum. Lot's of room for gaps in communication / missunderstanding. I'll try better, more precise: What is the reason you believe its the ONLY way? How EXACTLY does the ego put up defense? Is it just keeping yourself busy? Are there feelings in the body, resistence during self inquiry? Why do you believe it has to be a fight? Is it possible that it is only a fight because we make it one? HOW EXACTLY are you doing it, the self-inquiry? What thoughts come up? Do you just repeat the question in your mind? Where exactly is your attention? Does your attention stay or move? Are you sitting still or moving? Why do you see enlightenement as the end goal? What is enlightenment for you personally? Realizing you are more than the "skin-encapsulted ego"? More than that? Why should there be a final enlightenment? What to do afterwards? What changed after your realization? What DO you do differently? What does FEEL different? What EXACTLY is scary? Why is it scary? You understand why "it's about finding out who you are" seems like a insufficent reply to me? I don't have the expectation of you replying to all of the questions above, that would probably be 1000+ word reply, but those are the questions I am curious about, your personal experience. Pick the one(s) u feel comfortable to reply to To give you an example how the process is for me and what changed: In meditation, I felt (twice) a deep vibration inside me. My body starts to twich when I let go, some energy flowing. It feels that I am simply a vessel for this energy. I can simply decide to let the energy flow or not (=resistance, tension in body) Re the illusion, OK I have seen people right in front of me being just colorful fractals. No substance. They were talking fractals. If I had looked into a mirrow at this time, I probaly would have seen the same with me. Different emotions had different colours. So where's the "human"? I become aware how others are just reflections and appearences. Certain energetic patterns that come across my life based on my own inner patterns. I am in state X, I have emotions Y, I think of Z, and XYZ happens soon afterwards I become aware that there are no real boundaries. "People" I see for the first time know and say things about me they can't know based on physical 3-D laws. I realize it all being a big process, I am always communicating with one "consciousness" that is simply covered by human appearences. It's like talking to my own subconscious non-stop Especially the last point was scary for me. It was like "everybody knows everything about me, no secrets". But it also makes me incredibly free because there is no point in hiding anything

First sentence: yeah, me too sometimes. Until I remember that I am only lost as long as I try to make sense of things in a logical way. No logic, no being lost. Easier said then done sometimes of course. Second part: well, that's the thing... who wouldn't want God? God doesn't want god. Because she's god, too. Namaste my brother.

Super wolfy post, loving it 🤣

Look, I think you're trying to help, but if you want to do that - do it best by answering my questions instead of asking more questions. It seems you are trying to point me to sth without questioning if what you are pointing to is maybe something I am already aware of? What I am - everything and nothing. Tat tvam asi. The process itself, awareness. My life has changed forever, took me a while to integrate but here we are now. Did not need any self inquiry for that, just sitting and feeling. Maybe there is more I am not aware of? Defintely! I know there are further barriers because I touched them. So How find out more? One approach to find out the "more" for me is to keep looking inside, another one is to act and another one is to ask questions and learn about the experience of others as I am doing now. If I want more questions, I ask for more questions. If I want answers to my questions, I ask for answers. VERY SIMPLE. So, if you want to be helpful say "I don't want to answer your questions" or al least reply to my questions before giving me more questions before even veryfying is they are of any use for me. For now, the questions you asked are of no use for me. All this meta stuff is very tiring for me, real experience, first person experience is what I am interested in. You made some statements, I asked questions about it, you did not answer but evaded those questions. You don't want to share your answers - OK, just say it directly pls.