Vercingetorix

@drelamore well I am well aware that enlightenment is a subjective phenomena and science deals with objective phenomena. Still there are stories of extraordinary things happening around enlightened people, maybe someone here exprienced such things. scientific for me means objectively true - such knowledge that doesn't rely on others, only on your self to know it is true. Such knowledge can motivate in my spiritual path, which right now I believe is true but can't know for sure until I experience something to validate it.

@drelamore you mean if science is reality? no. but what's your point?

@drelamore well but you don't need faith for science, it just works (Physics, chemistry...) maybe its because I have a degree in Physics but I think what it can describe (so called objective reality) it describe accurately. I remember Osho for example agreeing with this. @Grasshopper well yeah it's the subjective world, science can't say anything about it!

let me rephrase my question: have you had any experiences that transcend "scientific knowledge" or are you are just assuming/using your intuition or whatever like me to assume their is truth in all this? and if you say there is nothing to assume, just see the truth, well I try and ask this question to get motivated. @drelamore all you say is great, but can also be explained scientifically I think.

@drelamore tnx, haven't watched this one yet. If no told you, would you assume sitting down and meditation is the way to see the truth? (or uncover the lies?) @Neo not sure I understand @Ludwig I know this pitfall! I really am not expecting anything. But if there no "results" there is no point to continue. My guess Is I am doing it wrong. And by no means I am saying i'm meditating for a long time. just that I started a long time ago. @jjer94 well OK but that is the point, do you talk from experience or that just what you have been told and you believe it? cause if's its not from experience why should I believe you and not thousands of others who tell me thousands of other fantastic stories? And take note that that I kind of believe in all of this, I just see a flaw in my believe, and with my experience with it, can't say I saw any subjective proof either. Objective proof - in the objective, scientific world its easy to define and measure this. I will read the link, thanks. How do I practically empty my cup? I will try to contemplate everything I believe is true. but i'm sure how to do that and how to get to the conclusion its false. All so called knowledge? like science? in what way? because the way we are communication right now for example is through physical laws that were implemented. Liked your touch of Jed Mckenna

@drelamore What kind of proof are you waiting for? Best is objective scientific proofs, but if it's not possible than subjective experiences that people can share and attest are different than just dreaming and imagination You don't suppose anything, that's the nature of enlightenment work aren't you suppose there is true to discover? if not why bother meditate / do enlightenment work It's gonna take you really long time to achieve an enlightenment experience only through mediation. Watch Leo's videos on enlightenment for some methods to begin with. are you speaking from experience? what worked for you? The methods are in the 3 part enlightenment series? My main focus is practicing mindfulness. @Neo only some?

@A way to Actualize can you drop a link for these videos please?

-if you need to work / study in front of a computer use StayFocused extension for chrome so you won't "accidentally" enter time wasting websites. -if you have trouble getting up in the morning put your alarm clock in the bathroom near the shower than make it an instinct to turn off your alarm clock and then immediately turn on the shower so you will be obliged to take your shower and you won't return to sleep.