JuliusCaesar

I can relate to this as I've managed to succeed in lucid dreaming whilst sleeping under the influence of binaural beats. Out of curiosity, what binaural beats track/system specifically were you using?

I'm a ruthless asshole who wants to enslave every sentient being in the universe. I obviously can't be enlightened right? Because enlightened people are benevolent angels who are perfect in every sense right?

That's non sequitur. He could easily be bisexual and even as you yourself admitted it's also possible he was once gay but changed. But just since you asked no, I wouldn't ask a guy something like that because as you've pointed out since I'm not into dudes it wouldn't make any sense for me to do that. I'll grant that what you're saying is plausible. But all that's obvious to me here is that you're jumping to conclusions for some reason. It doesn't mean they aren't true, it just means I fail to see how you can certain of such a thing. Is it possible that you're lowkey trolling the OP and projecting your own rapscallion-type behavior on them? Not that I have anything against people who gossip mind you. Or anyone else for that manner.

To quote Genghis Khan “An action committed in anger is an action doomed to failure.” Of course, that basically says nothing about whether or not your suspicions are true. I just felt it was relevant to your situation since as @Loving Radiance has pointed out, you obviously seem to have ascribed ill intent to that guy out of anger.

That's illogical, the probability that he's a homosexual in the first place is low as the preponderance of humans are hetero-normative. Unless you think he's also full of shit pretending to be gay. That's possible, well I guess it's good you're at least conceding that he may or may not be trolling. But relative to him being desirous of attention, that much is obvious in any event. Irrespective of whether or not he's actually serious and wants assistance. lol

Eh, couldn't he be bisexual? Or maybe his sexual orientation changed.

It does, if nothing else it helps me realize you don't really think someone else cursed you, or at least you're not certain if such a thing is true. Believing that you think some sorcerer or malevolent alien did this to you is a misapprehension I think many here including myself have had. And as such, we've at times raised arguments that are basically tangent to what you're really saying and not actually relevant since they address a caricature of your actual position. I've asked this before and I don't believe I've received an answer. But what psychedelics specifically? And while we're at it, could you expound on what exactly you experienced under their influence? It's difficult for me to try to ascertain what kind of impact that has as I've never had suicidal ideation myself and have never really studied it in others. But intuitively I can say generally that it at least has the potential to have a deleterious impact on the spiritual practices you've done. The extent to which this can affect you is often underestimated. Similar to doing psychedelics, this can have a positive or negative impact, or more oftentimes some combination thereof. In my understanding, that's probably helped if it's affected you at all on the global structure of your life. In all likelihood, this has helped you.

@Heart of Space Its kind of confusing following this from a third-person perspective. On the one hand, you yourself started out by saying that you cursed yourself. But then you go on to say things that seem to imply someone else cursed you. So it seems that you're trying to say that you cursed yourself by allowing yourself to be influenced by others. There is a basis in my own experience for this to be possible. But at any rate, if you realize that you cursed yourself, then aren't you also capable of breaking the same? And can't you also pursue higher possibilities without engaging with and experiencing such negativity?

They are me.

Alright, well just consider the possibility then, that because there are powerful entities that exist in this shared dream. That it's also possible for them to bring form to essentially any desire(we're talking in consensus reality here, not necessarily just a personal one). Including malicious ones. And as such, there's then a whole science which arises from this, though one even I admittedly have only scratched the surface of. In part because I don't much care for negative things like curses. I'd prefer to study more positive examples of paranormal phenomena. At the same time, however, I'm aware of distortions that you could call universal laws here, as they seem to be at play in all occurrences of this nature. And ultimately, it's clear to me these "laws" are just distortions of the actual reality of oneness anyway.

I'm not going to say that you should maybe listen to him then as I know that advice is likely to land like excrement in a punch-bowl. But the fact you're aware of that should give you pause, as it opens up the possibility that he may believe valid things that others don't. And no, that doesn't mean necessarily that I endorse any of the things he says. That's a communication error on my part. I didn't mean to say that the topic creator's beliefs are on the same level as physics and logic. What I meant to say is that there is such a thing you could call cursology which could even be defined as logical, and even physical to some degree. Operating under certain laws and within which there are predictable patterns. Though perhaps not exact mathematical equations/qualifications or at least not as far as I am aware anyway.

By this logic, we can also argue that awakening cuts through all the bullshit of physics, chemistry, geometry, and logic. There may not be anything objectively wrong with saying this. But to take the fact that it's all ultimately imaginary, and assign invalidity to everything on that basis is a mistake. If for no other reason than the practical utility these sorts of disciplines have within the dream. Or at least, in instances where we aren't describing pseudoscience anyway.

Of course, lucidity with infinite variance in degree is possible. True but that in no way undermines or discounts the occasionally valid thing New Agers practice/believe in.

What psychedelics specifically? Well, I've personally seen into the future on multiple occasions in the past as well. But unless you've actually experienced in some capacity the entity which cursed you. I don't see why you think there is such a thing. Otherwise, you could tell us about who they are and why they're capable of doing such a thing to you. Obviously, you experienced precognition, though I'm curious what exactly you mean by the information that was fed to you. Was it by some specific being or by undifferentiated mind? Is it possible that one doesn't have anything to do with the other? Well, everything is a dream so isn't that a meaningless statement? Unless you're commenting on the fact that new agers are nearly always full of shit?

Curses are in fact a part of this reality. That doesn't necessarily mean that you're under one, especially since at least some of the things you've described like losing your keys tend just to be an ordinary part of the human experience. And considering you don't seem to have any direct evidence, I mean it's not like you accidentally shot some Shaman in the ass with a shotgun then he put a whammy on you. Combine that with the fact that most humans their whole lives never come into contact with anything obviously indicative of mystical curses existing or being possible, well you can see why people here have a hard time believing you. This is mostly a shot in the dark, but you haven't been doing Datura or anything similar to it like Belladonna in the past by chance? Many of the things you describe can be brought about by them. I believe you, but even I'm struggling to understand what makes you so certain that a powerful entity cursed you. On the one hand, you've experienced things that could be brought on by a curse, but on the other, I fail to see what concrete evidence you have to support this conclusion. Unless there's something you haven't told us.

It's possible that it isn't the best advice. But all I'm saying is if you behave like a Pallas's cat, then no one with an ounce of sense will tangle with you. Writing this I realize there may be people who don't know what a Pallas's cat is so I'll link a video about them below. And by the way, like I said I myself would be very unlikely to actually behave in such an aggressive fashion were I in your shoes. It's just that sometimes the best way to deescalate a situation is to escalate it further. Because if you strike fear into the heart of the enemy, he's likely to flee. Of course, If I were you, I wouldn't likely view any of these guys as an enemy, even in spite of the strong possibility that one of them did me wrong. Cute little devils aren't they? https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=u82y8zI1SdI

The problem is that you're relying far too heavily on the assumptions made by our culture. In much the same way that the intellectuals of Galileo's day did. I'm not exactly certain if it's beneficial to either of us to state the same arguments over and over in slightly different ways and never manage to arrive at a consensus on anything.

This will be a conglomeration of my thoughts that arise from an eclectic and multiperspectival point of view on Leo's recent video, if you haven't seen it yet and are into spirituality, then go watch it here. I normally detest linearity, but in terms of the range of importance of issues, I feel that opining on statements made by Leo early in the video would be best. Early into the video, Leo mentions how he's 40 years of age and believes that he'll perish some time into the future. So my opening criticism would be on the fact that you're thinking too much like a human. Think of all the things you've experienced thus far and their extremely radical nature. Do you honestly believe that you are and will always be incapable of making your human self immortal? Or are you telling me you want to grow old and die? No, you as a human want to be young and perfectly healthy eternally just as much as I do. Think back, therefore, to how you were decades in the past. How you once were totally incapable of predicting what following the path of enlightenment would did to you. I mean, you were actually stupid enough to be atheist for Pete's sake. Even the religious morons got that one right! I understand that most of your awakenings seem to you not to "enable" your ego to manipulate consensus reality. That you currently believe that the things of the Godhead are not some kind of toy for your ego. Given however your past stupidity, what is the probability then, that future you will look back also on the current you and think "wow, how stupid and self-limiting I was!". Furthermore, has it occurred to you that given our infinitely loving nature(as such we literally don't give a fuck what happens ever) that we would actually permit your ego to weaponize higher consciousness resources in your ordinary "human" life? And the fact that you currently believe that there's no way for example, that you could sustain high consciousness states indefinitely might also be bullshit? Open your mind to higher possibilities for human selves than you currently understand to be possible/real. I could go on and on about this, how you know there are humans who have done paranormal things, how you're even aware of some rare instances of what you like to call "specific omniscience" in mortal man. But I believe I've done more than what's necessary to make my point sufficiently well. Now I'll address other deficiencies I find in you which are more minor than this self-limiting crack addiction of believing ordinary human limitations are somehow absolutely immutable. You have a substantial Stage Red shadow, and a minor Stage Orange one. The Orange one is no serious problem, though I'd like to ask that you stop judging all of those highly technical academics simply because their worldview is full of delusional nonsense. Because while yes, it's true they're deluded rather highly, it's simultaneously true that you're likely to be overcorrecting in your response to their inadequacies. And that you should hold yourself to a higher intellectual standard from an Orange perspective. Meaning you should, for instance, care more about consensus reality than you do now. Know that just because reality is a dream, that doesn't change the fact the dream is governed by absolute mental laws. And because these laws are mental, they can be broken or transcended by one who is sufficiently powerful within the dream to do so. Don't demonize within yourself, therefore, those who demand you do paranormal things before them. Onto the more severe deficiency/shadow you have in Stage Red. The majority of liberals also suffer from this. You've demonized those who are ruthlessly ambitious. But they are in fact you as you know, their ambitions are your ambitions. Their "sins" if you can forgive me for using such an asinine human concept, are your "sins". Has it not occurred to you, Leo that by refusing to embrace selfish ambition, you've made a mouse out of yourself? That if you thought more like for example one such as Dan Peña, that you wouldn't need to imagine me to assist you in moving beyond your current limitations? That if you were so ruthless ambitious and disrespectful of rules which are not your own, that in all likelihood, you'd actually progress much faster than you currently do in the spiritual work you do? Realize that Stage Coral is essentially much like a combination of Turquoise and Red, and that you're holding yourself back from the higher possibilities we have in store for you. By the way, would you please remove that "No spiritual mumbo-jumbo." part of the Personal Development heading? You're only creating the illusion that spirituality is useless bullshit, and helping reinforce the erroneous perception that you're a cult leader in the minds of stage orange materalists here. This is complete and utter foolishness, and nothing more than human nonsense anyway. Furthermore, your belief that highly selfish entities are not capable of higher states of consciousness and power is mostly baloney. There exist in our reality, many ludicrously selfish entities that are easily powerful enough to create matter out of nothing in our consensus reality. However, they struggle to proceed beyond a certain point in spirituality. Because in order to go further, they have to embrace all things as the love and light of the Godhead, and as such, there is a point beyond which they cannot proceed without dropping their selfishness. However, that threshold is dramatically higher than you'd imagine. There are beings in the universe who by their own power have turned themselves into plants on Earth so humans may commune with them via consumption. Some of these entities are servants of the light, but some of them enjoy the darkness. The various species of Datura is one such example of a negatively oriented entity doing this. All personal individuations of God are all together as individual drops of water which comprise an ocean. And she is as a mighty river. At her level of development, she experiences whatsoever she desires. And increases in power over time, approaching absolute power. Her purpose on our planet is twofold. One, to satisfy her sadistic tendencies directly, she imposes what your medical scientists call anticholingeric syndrome upon the idiots who consume her that know little to nothing about her. Two to do so more indirectly, by empowering the human entity giving them some degree of command in this dream, and using them to impose suffering upon other humans with this power. Men of knowledge tend to know that if they fast for prolonged periods of time prior to ingestion. Then the nasty effects, she ordinarily imposes are not present as there's dramatically less acetylcholine in the body to compete with the anticholingerics present in the plant. There have been many instances of humans who have to various degrees of progression, moved beyond their own limitations by successfully binding her to their will. But make no mistake about, a being as powerful, wise, and ruthlessly selfish as her always succeeds in enslaving her most serious acolytes. And they become powerful enemies of the human race, creating pathogens, natural disasters, and many other blights on mankind that otherwise wouldn't exist. Just in case there are any psychopaths reading this, I'll prescribe a method for using her to generate your own insights into spirituality and reality, that if you're stupid enough to follow, will result in you becoming her bitch. Which if you're a psychopath is the last thing you want. Abstain from all food for 30 days, then on the thirtieth day ingest 500 or more seeds of her. The differences in potency due to species variants doesn't need to be taken into account for, as the competitive antagonism of choline receptors will be nearly nonexistent under such circumstances. Therefore, you are "safe" doing this at least in terms of biological danger. But make no mistake about it, the best that will come of this is you becoming an instrument of her terror. And don't fool yourself into thinking you can handle her or succeed in achieving anything of substance with her beyond various minor things. If you want to destroy the human species with her, you fail miserably even with her help in spite of her tremendous power. All the enemies of humanity has been made their footstool in the past, and it will always be so in the future. Because the forces of the light are more intense and powerful than the darkness, so the darkness has always failed and the light always triumphed.

From reflecting on my past, what I'd do is incredibly obvious. I'd just assume perhaps naively that the new guy is innocent at least at first. But given the bits of evidence you've mentioned, I'd probably conclude as you have that he's guilty. From there, I'd probably just ignore/forgive him. His saying how nasty of a guy he can be sounds like bullshit to me. In actuality, his bark is probably worse than his bite. If however, you want me to advise you not on the basis of what I think I would do, but maybe what I think you might want to do instead. I'd have to point out that you sound kind of afraid of this guy. And that if you really want to set your mind at ease. You should retaliate, doing to him whatever wrong things he did to you but many times worse. If you showed him that you're more bellicose than he is, and perhaps psychologically imbalanced, he'll leave you alone out of fear as he seems like a coward to me. Of course, I say all of this somewhat tongue in cheek knowing that you're supremely unlikely to follow the advice I've given in this second paragraph. That, however, doesn't change the fact that it was fun to write.

At the time of that, I wasn't 100% certain whether or not I had discovered a "glitch in the matrix" so to speak. Or if I had just made myself batshit crazy for a day. Either way, it lead me to probe the subject further and find much better essentially incontrovertible proof that the insights I had on that today were actually correct. Of course, I could do better, but really if I wanted to argue against materialism more efficiently for the benefit of others. It would probably be wiser to cite Quantum phenomena instead. Just due to the fact that it becomes possible for me to leverage the authority of the scientific community then, and as such makes the whole argument more persuasive. But persuading people of things isn't really my agenda here, or at least not my highest priority as I mostly have a totally different set of motives entirely.

With LSD analogs you especially have to be careful as sometimes NBOMes(a dangerous class of psychedelic that causes heart attacks) are sometimes sold as LSD or LSD substitutes by some vendors because it's cheaper to manufacture than legit acid. So obviously, if it's possible you should always test your substances before doing them. I'm not sure if a test you can perform at home exists for 5 MEO Malt, however.

If you're in the US you might consider Salvia Divinorum as it's legal in 19 states. Just don't smoke it otherwise you're probably subjecting yourself to a hell you can't imagine, especially if you smoke a potent extract. If you don't want to do that, I suppose you could wait for psilocybin-bearing mushrooms to be legalized. In Denver, they're already decriminalized so given another decade or two they'll probably see similar legal status nationwide to Cannabis, on the grounds that psychologists endorse them as antidepressants.

It's nice to know someone reads and remembers what I've written, even in spite of the fact that I'm the only one here.

I often find it easier to forgive than hate. And sometimes I resent myself for it, feeling like a doormat. Wishing I were more selfish and ruthless.

So I'll be posting here what's basically a thesis-like study I created when I was interested in using Datura as an entheogen. I'll preface this by quoting Pope Innocent VIII from an ironic title that has the word bull in it. Throughout human history, there have been people who have managed to do sorcery with the assistance of certain plants in the nightshade family. Religious zealots who witnessed things beyond their understanding, then go on to spread rumors and before you know it, everyone's a witch and needs to be burned at the stake. So meme challenge to you memers out there. I want you to produce a meme around medieval Christians that uses the fact that they expect witches to be supernatural people who can fly and walk through walls, yet also think that they can capture the same people in shackle and chains. Innocent VIII: BULL Summis desiderantes, Dec. 5th, 1484 Bullarium Romanum (Taurinensis editio), sub, anno 1484. The Bull is also printed in full at the head of the Malleus maleficarum. Innocent, bishop, servant of the servants of God, Ad futuram rei memoriam "It has recently come to our ears, not without great pain to us, that in some parts of upper Germany, as well as in the provinces, cities, territories, regions, and dioceses of Mainz, Ko1n, Trier, Salzburg, and Bremen, many persons of both sexes, heedless of their own salvation and forsaking the catholic faith, give themselves over to devils male and female, and by their incantations, charms, and conjurings, and by other abominable superstitions and sortileges, offences, crimes, and misdeeds, ruin and cause to perish the offspring of women, the foal of animals, the products of the earth, the grapes of vines, and the fruits of trees, as well as men and women, cattle and flocks and herds and animals of every kind, vineyards also and orchards, meadows, pastures, harvests, grains and other fruits of the earth; that they afflict and torture with dire pains and anguish, both internal and external, these men, women, cattle, flocks, herds, and animals, and hinder men from begetting and women from conceiving, and prevent all consummation of marriage; that, moreover, they deny with sacrilegious lips the faith they . received in holy baptism; and that, at the instigation of the enemy of mankind, they do not fear to commit and perpetrate many other abominable offences and crimes, at the risk of their own souls, to the insult of the divine majesty and to the pernicious example and scandal of multitudes." My Thesis: Entheogen Trip Reports Invalidate Materialism. Abstract The intention of this study is to determine the validity of the Materialist Paradigm in explaining unusual phenomena induced by ingestion of powerful anticholinergic deliriants. Its modus operandi is the research of third-person accounts relative to the intention of the study, which corroborates first-person experiences I've personally had that appear to be induced by a combination of intention and specialized guided meditation. Definitions Datura In this study, the word Datura will refer to one of the many known variants of the plant(Stramonium, Wrightii, Innoxia etc). Because these are all very similar in chemical composition, they all effectively have rather similar impact on human consciousness. Dosage however is the most difficult variable to assail, as the possible differential in potency is approximately 1 to 5. These plants utilize solar radiation to produce their alkaloids, and as such in the summertime have much higher concentrations of psychoactive compounds. There's also some variation from species to species as well. But overall, due to their great similarity here they will all be classified as Datura here(even Brugmansia which is arborous Datura qualifies). However, according to some users of Datura, there's no such wide variability between different species or batches, so it's possible that there's something about Datura potency medical science doesn't yet know. Materialist Paradigm This system of beliefs is one of the most relevant concepts to this study as its validity is being evaluated here. It presupposes that the physical universe is an objectively real thing behind the scenes and that the brain is merely hallucinating a perfect version of that in a mentally sane person. It assumes object permanence, so a consequence of materialism is that when you look away from your house it still exists even though you can't perceive it. The most important notion of Materialism is that of Consensus Reality. Consensus Reality The notion that there's an objectively real world, that all sane humans perceive. The assumption is effective that the ordinary human state of waking consciousness is the only valid perspective. Under materialism, anything experienced outside of consensus reality is considered purely delusional and irrelevant to consensus/ordinary reality also. Accounts of Datura use Subject #1 Citation: https://erowid.org/experiences/exp.php?ID=111164 Relevant Quote: "I saw my mother going out on the porch and unplugging the Halloween lights I had put up for decoration because it was going to rain, and then I saw her getting into her car and going to the grocery store. Nothing epic or profound, but when I awoke I found that she had in fact done both of these things. Psychic dream or coincidence? Was this an out-of-body-experience in which I was following my mother around, watching what she was doing? I couldn’t say. Believe what you want to believe." Commentary: The subject clearly has experienced some form of precognition/psychic phenomena. Were this an isolated incident it could be written off as a coincidence. However, there are many other examples of the same phenomena. Subject #2 Citation: https://erowid.org/experiences/exp.php?ID=50292 Relevant Quote: "Timmy said if we (me andC.) werre both tripping on the Nightshade on the same night but at different places I should be able to find him. I closed my eyes and called to him. We are very close not only in our relationship but as tripping partners- we've often had mass hallucinations or communicated without speaking, so I had no doubt it would work. He appeared in the jimson weed garden, kinda fading in and out like TV with bad reception. It was hard to see him and it took all my energy just to get through for long enough for Timmy to disappear and C. to look at me with grave seriousness and say: 'Find out if I have Bail!' So I knew he was in jail. He had got arrested for allegedly going in the Thai restaurant and asking to drink the fishtank water and eat the fish, then continuing on to Turner St. and climbing into the back seat of an unlocked car and sitting there talking to the headrests until the police showed up. He thought it was me and his mom in the car, driving us all to the party!" Commentary: While there's obviously a departure from ordinary reality present here(which is omnipresent in datura trip reports of this nature). The fact that two humans under the influence of the same substance can communicate at a distance in this manner would suggest that the experiences being had under the influence of Datura are actually part of consensus reality. Only that it's a consensus reality for those under the influence(and no ordinary sober person). The materialist paradigm is obviously incapable of explaining such a thing. Other than writing it off as a coincidence or a fabrication. As the materialist paradigm can't have nonconsensus reality and consensus reality at the same time; nor can it explain this spooky action at a distance. Furthermore, the fact that the individuals doing these substances typically believe in materialism. It's highly unlikely to occur to them that they could utilize these substances to affect or observe consensus reality in extraordinary ways. This means that under the observer effect(Quantum phenomena) the likelihood of these kinds of experiences occurring should be highly improbable. This is consistent with the data I've gathered, as approximately only 1 in 80 reports contains such phenomena. Subject #3 Citation: https://erowid.org/experiences/exp.php?ID=35559 Relevant Quote: "I took it along with 3 friends in Israel. It was BY FAR the strangest event in our lives. We ALL saw the same hallucinations (if they were). First, I noticed we had speech imparement. Then the 'rules' of reality changed. They all started getting wander lust. As the girls got up to just 'walk' I would guide them back to our camp spot. The other guy was litterally running around in a circle on the beach making a yin yang in the sand. Then he was crawling on his belly. I felt and overwhelming urge to sleep but I was worried about the girls. I was a bit bored so I started flipping a coin. The fucking coin disappeared in mid air and the three of us all saw it happen (at eye level). I looked around where it could have possibly landed...it was gone. So I repeated. THE SAME THING HAPPENED! The girls started applauding think I was doing a magic trick. I just thought, 'Oh shit...this is going to be one serious trip!' I tried to smoke my cigareets but I couldn't get them to my mouth. I would try a couple time and they would disappear. The girls would clap once again thinking I was doing a magic trick. I finally had to use my free arm as a sort of guide to get the cigarette to mouth. Otherwise, the best way i could describe it was as if my head wasn't solid. Throughout the night I was visited PHYSICALLY, IN FRONT OF ME, by my friends. They all had various things to say like, 'Where are the keys to the room?' (we didn't have a room and the conversations and inquiries were totally illogical) etc. When I looked away they would also disappear. In the morning they came back, minus the guy. He came back that next evening. They all reported the smae things. Normal people disappeared and we were in a world of these nature things/people whose pass time was playing hide and seek. Cars were gone and the city streets were empty. We all had conversations with each other and could recall them BUT it appeared we were physically at the other persons location THOUGH WE WERE MILES FROM EACH OTHER. The guy ended up RUNNING DOWN A HIGHWAY that contained no cars (impossible) and sat on a doorstep in a town miles away from the city we were in. A woman came to the door and recognized him from a picture. She invited him in and introduced herself as his mothers second cousin. HE HAD NO IDEA where she lived, who she was, and where he was. She showed him the picture of her and his mother and his picture that was sent to years before and allowed him to call home. She then drove him back to where we were. We don't know what happened that night except 1) we all had the same hallucinations 2) we all interacted with each other throughout the night (though we were apart) 3) we all believe we visited some other place...dimension..whatever." Commentary: This is perhaps the easiest account to refute as a materialist. Not because it contains anything fantastical in any objective sense. But because it seems so contrary to ordinary reality, and impossible that it's likely to ellicit an incredulous response. And indeed, there's great uncertainty regarding exactly what occurred here in a detailed fashion. However, the fact that these individuals had a shared experience, and that it was in a reality that operated under rules radically different from those of ordinary reality is certain. This further reinforces the argument made by the commentary on Subject #2, that datura trips produce an experience of consensus reality, which is outside of ordinary reality. Or in other words, it's a consensus reality outside of consensus reality. This obviously makes Materialism a self-defeating argument. As it requires ordinary reality to be the only valid form of reality, and ordinary reality is defined as ordinary and valid because it's consensual. When some of the alternate realities(or perhaps all of them) are clearly also consensual as well. Subject #4 Citation: https://erowid.org/experiences/exp.php?ID=1825 Relevant Quote: "I went to my friend's house the next day. I had to find out what happened. before describing anything on my part, he told me what he witnessed at the campsight(he was sober). He said he witnessed stephen(the other induced one) become real old looking. He was hairy like a dog and it was clear he said. He described exactly what happened to him and what I witnessed. The following week I went to the library to research more about Datura. A book read that it is common to have 'dreams' involving lycanthropy (turning of man to wolf). How bizzare! This freaked me out." Commentary: I've included this report not because it has obvious objective value relative to this study's intention. But because I find it to be an interesting anecdote as out of the hundreds of reports I've read this is the only one like this. As for the fact, a sober witness saw some strange transformations in a person who was tripping on datura. That could potentially be explained pharmacologically much the same way that humans under the influence of alcohol sometimes exhibit similar phenomena. This is because Datura when taken under ordinary circumstances, destroys brain cells just like alcohol. And as such is capable of making one appear "old-looking". What I've originally written here I've redacted but to bottom-line it. If the pharmacological genesis explanation were somehow shown to be invalid. Then obviously something of a magickal nature would have occurred here. Subject #5 Citation: https://erowid.org/experiences/exp.php?ID=65062 Relevant Quote: "At this point we were at the peak of the experience, talking with what ended up to be a large amount of really hot New York chicks. Two of them came up to Ray and I and started talking chinese-gibberish-bullshit. This really tripped us out. We all remember it, but datura is a funny thing. It can make me see or hear things and think they are completely real. To this day we don't really know if this actually happened or if we were just tripping balls. We eventually had to say good by to our guests and simply laid there doing what we were before." Commentary: Upon returning to baseline consciousness, these two individuals remember sharing hallucinations under Datura's influence. Clearly another instance of the Datura world bearing the consensual quality of ordinary reality. A materialist reading this as an isolated incident could explain it away as an example of poor memory. Ultimately arguing that this is a case of two individuals misremembering the same non-existent experience and that it just occurred randomly. This hypothesis would appear to be specious, however. As occurrences of this nature are fairly common, and as such are highly unlikely to be coincidental. Ironically, the empiricist tendencies of Materialism lend credence to the notion that materialism may in fact false. Subject #6 Citation: https://erowid.org/experiences/exp.php?ID=49308 Relevant Quote: "Datura did it. I had a lucid dream that seemed to last for a whole day, though I only slept for 7 hours. My dream recall has NEVER been very good, so don't expect me to recap the whole thing, but I do recall drinking a beer and a half, pouring out the other half of the 2nd beer, going to the grocery store, eating at a restaurant, mostly normal day to day shyt. Upon waking I went to the bathroom to pee, and looking in the mirror, my pupils looked normal, so I went to sit on my bed and quickly make note of my experience for this report" Commentary: The subject experienced an entire day of events in the span of about 7 hours of ordinary time. This is fairly substantial time dilation, and would suggest that time isn't a solid objective fact of reality(as the materialist paradigm needs it to be), but instead that it's a highly subjective relative experience. And as such, can manifest itself in ways that materialism would never anticipate. Subject #7 Citation: https://erowid.org/experiences/exp.php?ID=8657 Relevant Quote: "Eventually the time came to go to sleep, and I decided then to eat 5 seeds before I fell asleep to experience the dream alterations of the plant. That night was amazing. When I was fallng asleep, I experienced vivid, abstract mental imagery with my eyes closed, (although it was nothing like a hallucination). When asleep, I had unbelievable long and vivid dreams. The dream also was one continuing story, even though I frequently wove in and out of REM sleep and non REM sleep. The dream seemed to take up the time period of several days. I could even tell the difference between the dream state and the non dream states of sleeping as well, and I was generally much more aware than usual during sleep. Also, I have been trying to train myself to have lucid dreams for over a year. Last night I became lucid, but I had no control over things. this caused me to think I was in fact awake, and just as I thought that, my mind left the dream state. My friend and I slept for a total of eleven hours last night. The seeds were definitely D. Stramonium, and had been kept in a ziplock baggie for about two months, and were harvested from a dead plant, killed by paraquat. On one odd note, I'd like to add that the morning after my experience, I thought I noticed a moderately heightend olfactory sense for about one hour. This was extremely intresting, I smelled more smells than I usually can, and wondered if that was anything like what a dog experiences. Has anyone else experienced this or even heard of it? perhaps I was just imagining it." Commentary: The subject exhibits higher time dilation affecting their sleeping dreams than the previous subject. This is most likely due to the fact that the subject utilized a higher dose. Though the exact dosage in either instance cannot be properly evaluated objectively due to the possibility of great variances of possible potency, and many unknown relevant variables. The subject also seems to have possibly experienced enhanced olfactory sense. While it's possible the experience was purely in their mind and completely irrelevant to consensus reality as the materialist paradigm would be expected to predict. It's equally possible the smells being perceived were in fact real(meaning real given the ontological assumptions of materialism). Because materialism acknowledges brain chemistry modifications affecting the human experience(the five senses). A human experiencing enhanced olfactory senses due to a chemical does not necessarily contradict materialism. It is however an interesting anecdote, as very few reports of this nature include such an occurrence. In fact, it's the only report I've read which includes such phenomena. Subject #8 Citation: https://erowid.org/experiences/exp.php?ID=55089 Relevant Quote: "We left after that and walked home, there was a drain and you could see that you shouldn't walk on it cause it was broken and a 'sober' person would have seen that you could fall down it and I told him not to walk on it but he put his full weight on the drain cover, dropped in and somehow jumped off a falling cover back onto solid ground with ninja speed (out of nowhere). Is quite impressed at his reflexes kicking in in time, and that he could jump off something that was already falling and had nothing to support a jump (He should have just pushed the drain lid down faster and not gained any height from the jump). Says he feels like hes floating around and that his legs are back at home in the cupboard." Commentary: Subject under the influence of datura leaves; described by subject's sober sitter. Apparently walked into and bore down upon with all their body weight a damaged drain cover(presumably a circular hole in the floor covered by a broken piece of plastic or steel covering with a large dent going downard in it). An ordinary person doing this would certainly be expected to fall into the drain and injure themself. But this individual managed to propel themself out of the drain safely. There are effectively two possible ways to explain what occurred here. Either the subject jumped immediately before the drain cover collapsed(which is contrary to the account of the tripper's sober sitter). Or something inexplicable(that is given the materialist paradigm should be physically impossible occurred like levitation). Furthermore, this entire occurrence is highly counterintuitive; somehow a cocktail of powerful deliriants seems to have given the subject some kind of athleticokinetic power. Subject #9 Citation: https://erowid.org/experiences/exp.php?ID=53350 Relevant Quote: "T- 3:15 - I must have been sleeping for a while. My dreams are more real than reality. T-6:15- Fall asleep (3:30am). Very lucid dreaming. This was the most enjoyable part of the experience because the unpleasant physical effects were left behind. The dreaming state was clearer than the waking state. I occasionally wake up next to a porcelain head then realize it’s actually my pillow." Commentary: While there's nothing earth-shattering in this trip report. The subject experienced sleeping dreams more vividly than waking life. Which runs contrary to the assumption made by Materialists that "real life" is more vivid than "dreams", also countering the notion that vividity is a valid means for distinguishing between "reality" and its alternatives. Furthermore, the subject reports higher consciousness and lucidity in their dreams than in their waking state. Which also contradicts the precepts of the materialist paradigm albeit in a soft way. As it seems plausible that one could argue these are simply examples of delusion from a third-party perspective. But given the quantity of instances of this same thing occurring this would be an unlikely possibility. Subject #10 Citation: https://erowid.org/experiences/exp.php?ID=43841 Relevant Quote: "This is why I realize this is by far the strongest drug I have ever taken. I have done nothing but the flowers and have had no bad trips, no vacations at the hospital, and no permanent tripping. I’ve tripped on jimson weed about 8 times now and every trip is different, they all seem to have some sort of theme to them that reoccurs throughout the trip, one time it was a girl I liked, the other it was my father appearing over and over again asking if I’m stoned... If I fall asleep I experience lucid hallucinations that seem real and the memories of them seem like real memories and not dreams." Commentary: It's assumed by nearly every materialist that their memory of what's a dream versus "reality" is an absolute objective standard. So this is yet another example of materialist wisdom faltering. Subject #11 Citation: https://erowid.org/experiences/exp.php?ID=35431 Relevant Quote: "The effect was perfect; not only could I run effortlessly, but my vision also improved and I could see like an Eagle. Also, one time during the past winter, after chewing a medium leave (not too big), I was able to sprint so fast, that even though the snow was soft and at least a foot deep, I did not fall through, but managed to run over the top of a large field until I reached the back woods (about 1/2 mile). I am not sure what the runs would be like after chewing some of the more potent seeds, but by using the leaves in moderation, my runs have definitely become much easier and interesting..." Commentary: Given materialist assumptions, it should be physically impossible to run over foot-deep soft snow without falling in. As there would be nothing solid against which to pivot one's foot. Of course, it's possible to argue that the subject's perceptions were impaired by the Datura as there's no third-party sober observer to confirm the validity of their experience. However, the same phenomenon appears to occur in Subject #8 who did have a sober third party verify their experience. In which case also the subject did Datura Leaves and performed what appears to be a physically impossible feat that's real from the perspective of a third party sober observer. It's as though Datura Leaf consumption activates some kind of natural human ability to jump on/interact with nothing as though it were physically solid(some kind of Athletico telekinetic power). If this is indeed correct, it might be possible to walk on water(in ordinary consensus reality) under the influence of Datura Leaves. It would probably even be possible to walk on air. However, the specific circumstances under which these occurrences(of the subjects, not the hypothetical examples) were possible are unknown. An interesting thing to note is the subject does not appear to have experienced hallucinations. Which either indicates that the leaves of the specific species taken(which is unknown) didn't for whatever reason cause hallucinations in the subject even at what would be expected to be a hallucinogenic dose. Or the subject has unusual brain chemistry, or perhaps because they didn't have a sober third party. One could assert the possibility that they were hallucinating without realizing it. This seems unlikely for the aforementioned reason, as well as the fact that one's Datura hallucinations tend to disappear making it clear to the tripper that they're hallucinating. Subject #12 Citation: https://erowid.org/experiences/exp.php?ID=19728 Relevant Quote: "It didn't take long for Mark to decide he wasn't going to sleep. I took off one of my shoes and turned the lights back on. I noticed that he only had one shoe on too. Then something I have wondered about for years happened. I looked over at Mark, busy drinking his salt, and said 'Hey, watch this!' I put a cigarette in my mouth and lit it. 'Watch!' I took a drag. I took another drag and it dissapeared as usual. That's when mark said 'Where did it go?' 'I don't know!?!!?', I said 'It keeps happening. I thought I was the only one it was happening to!'. He told me one of his smokes had disintegrated earlier too. I never told him what I was seeing. I figure my hand movements must have been enough to imply what I was seeing, but in the state we were in I could have been talking about ANYthing. But clear as day he watched my hallucination, and not only that he watched my hallucination disappear. All the while drinking salt..... The next day we hooked up with the others who had drank the tea. We found out that almost everyone of us had taken off one shoe. We all were smoking imaginary cigarettes. We all had conversations with people who weren't there." Commentary: Another example of shared hallucinations among individuals under Datura's influence. The phenomenon of smoking phantom cigarettes seems to be incredibly common among Datura trip reports. Subject #13 Citation: https://erowid.org/experiences/exp.php?ID=65694 Relevant Quote: "I was still seeing insects on the bed and telling people that they should just look closer if they couldn’t see them. I was angry that they didn’t believe me, but then my first friend who had drank the tea with me shouted from the other side of the room that he could see them too." Commentary: Another instance of shared hallucinations. This further reinforces the fact that the "Datura world" is a form of consensus reality. Subject #14 Citation: https://erowid.org/experiences/exp.php?ID=96951 Relevant Quote: "Before leaving the house unknown, I wanted to put my shoes and I had not. Then I looked at my feet and I said:'' I want shoes!'' And shoes suddenly appeared in my feet! I was tripping because I knew I was dreaming and the dream was so realistic. After this event, I do not remember too much about what happened. When I woke up, I talked about my dream to my father. I told him that my dream was so realistic that I did not even know if I really talked to him. I told him I did not know if I was dreaming or not. He looked at me and told me: 'You're probably still dreaming!' And suddenly, I woke a second time in my bed. But this time I had finally woken up to reality." Commentary: Another instance of an individual microdosing before bed and experiencing dreams equally vivid as in the waking world. And as someone who's struggled to lucid dream for 2 years using conventional methods. I can say from personal experience it's very difficult to become capable of successfully controlling one's own dreams like this. Subject #15 Citation: http://www.frogzen.com/memoir-part-two/ Relevant Quote: "I realized later that without my awareness my body had walked up a hill that was about the same slope and distance as walking up the sidewalk to my parents house, which apparently was a mental projection in a duplicate body, a parallel hallucination that had seemed perfectly real, even ordinary, with nothing out of place or unusual. The pain from the barbed wire must have provoked an abrupt return to my original body. Once I was back in my room again I lit the kerosene lamp — only to discover I was bleeding profusely from deep gashes across the top of both thighs from the barbed wire. I didn’t even have a Band-Aid and this looked like it would require some stitches. I did the first thing that came to mind. I visualized myself drawing light energy from my solar plexus into both hands and then I glided my open hands above my thighs while directing the light down into the wounds. It was a healing ritual I’d come up with and practiced on many an ailment, but never with such success — the bloody slashes closed up and disappeared, leaving behind a clean white scar across each thigh. I’d write it off as an hallucination, except for the fact that both scars, several inches long, are still visible over fifty years later. A little memento from the Datura Lady." Commentary: I've confirmed from reading the rest of his post that he, like most datura users who write these experienced the effects wearing off afterward. And the observation of his healed wounds was confirmed by his later sober self. Demonstrating clearly, that Datura gave him the ability to heal his leg which was wounded in consensus reality prior to the healing, and became healed in the same afterward. Which is completely and utterly impossible under the materialist paradigm. And suggests that even improper/irresponsible use of Datura can yield sufficient mental power to enable magical self-healing. As Datura Stramonium seeds taken in large quantity enabled the subject to do something that was impossible from an ordinary human state of consciousness. Conclusions Materialist precepts under scrutiny It's likely rather obvious that materialism is insufficient to explain much of what has been reported here. With Datura, it's clearly possible that well frankly almost anything becomes possible. Levitation, spending days within a sleeping dream as vivid as the ordinary reality that only lasted hours from everyone else's perspective back in ordinary reality. And even potential magical healing becomes possible, it just goes on and on. Failure after failure for materialism. While materialism may make many accurate predictions. There are parts of reality it can't hope to explain or comprehend. So that leaves us now in an interesting position. With what do we replace the faulty materialism theory? And what elements of materialism that are accurate will be retained? Doing so here is not the intention of this study. However, as the further subject of evaluating Datura's use as a potential entheogen is something of personal interest to me. I will be making an addendum to this study. Addendum: An evaluation of Datura's use as a potential entheogen. Abstract The intention of this is to ascertain whether or not Datura should be used for its potential to enable magical work. And under what circumstances, if any it is advisable to do so. We will be sourcing accounts almost exclusively from Amerindians who have used the plant to this end. Though relevant experiences from other sources may also be mentioned. Amerindian Shamanic Tradition To acquire supernatural power, Shamans and even some laymen of Native American tribes have been known to ingest Datura for this purpose specifically. Building on the phenomena studied in the first part of this thesis, we'll be using the experiences cited there as a barometer to ascertain the validity of claims made by the Amerindians. Chumash employment of Datura The Chumash of Northern California are known to have employed the consumption of D. Meteloides roots ground and steeped in water orally just before sleeping. After not less than a period of 21 days of fasting, and abstinence from sex. By doing this(following the taboos), they appear to experience something radically different with respect to recreational users. "The Chumash believed that if the drinker had prepared himself in advance by observing all of the restrictions on diet and sex, and if he approached the experience with a calm mind, then Datura put him in contact with the supernatural. "Toloache teaches you all things," one Chumash said. It enabled a man to see beyond surface appearances into the true nature of things, to see "the other world" beyond "this world," as the Chumash put it. But if a man had not prepared himself, then he perceived only illusion—exaggerated reflections of his own fears and weaknesses(Russell Ruiz, personal communication)." Source: page 12 here https://escholarship.org/content/qt37r1g44r/qt37r1g44r.pdf?t=krnkzn and also from page 13 "The Datura drinker could see lost or stolen articles, even far away. His visions compressed time and space, so that he could see distant places and events there; he could see into the past and future. Any prediction a person made under the influence of Datura was supposed to come true. Since the Datura drinker could see beyond surface appearances, he could tell who his true friends and enemies were, and he could perceive any attempt to trick him." Also from pages 12 and 13 of the aforementioned anthropological publication, we see claims that Datura drinkers properly prepared are even safe from the ordinary deleterious impact of Datura upon their waking world consciousness. "The Datura drinker could see the spirits of the dead, and he might speak with them. Certain spots were particularly auspicious for contacting the dead in a Datura trance; the best known of these was ka'aqtawaq 'north wind,' north of Ventura, an ancient sycamore tree in whose rusting leaves the Datura drinker could hear the voices of the dead. Datura also enables a person to see the supernatural creatures thought to inhabit various places. For example, a person who took Datura at a certain shrine-hill just south of the Santa Ynez River might see the huge serpent which lived in a cave in the bluff below the shrine." It should be noted that anthropologists are materialists and as such tend to approach any possibility of the paranormal as superstitious nonsense. And it's with this bias that the above study sourced was written. Judging from Chumash's descriptions, Datura produces a powerful state of lucidity which is contrary to delirium in those adequately prepared, and a state of profound delirium in those not properly prepared. Working with the knowledge that following these Chumash taboos seems to protect one from the schizophrenic effects of Datura. It is possible, to use current neuroscience to potentially explain this. Of all the taboos imposed on Datura drinkers(in the Chumash) the strictest by far is the restriction on meat. Some Datura drinkers even consume albeit, in moderate amounts, unsalted acorn gruel as a sort of soft core fast so to speak. Among any normal human diet, meat usually contains the highest concentration of choline precursors. If a human consumes only water for a prolonged duration such as a week or longer. Then the presence of chemicals bearing acetylcholine in the blood will fall dramatically. And without causing the health problems associated with choline-deficient diets such as a fatty liver. Not to mention the fact that cholinergic substances will always be more prevalent in humans eating any food as compared to fasting humans. This choline-deprived condition creates a different environment where the introduction of competitive antagonists of choline receptors(in which all daturas are rich) would be expected to become less deleterious perhaps dramatically so. As there would be much less acetylcholine to compete with for instance scopolamine or atropine. This competition is almost certainly responsible for the effects of the anticholinergic syndrome. As the fasting datura drinkers clearly seem to be immune to negative mind-altering effects of the anticholinergics present in non-fasting individuals. Furthermore, the harmful impact downwind which occurs at the global structure of the body in ordinary Datura consumption(death of cells nearly everywhere) is likely to be absent in the fasting Datura drinker for much the same reason that the normal schizophrenia is absent, as both would seem to be under the umbrella of the same syndrome caused by choline competing with anticholinergics. Some warnings from the Chumash On page 14 of the aforementioned anthropological publication. "A malevolent shaman might also use Datura to cause illness and even death to others. In his visions he might divine a man's true name to use in an incantation; he might find out a man's secret weaknesses and work on these. Even drought, famine, and other natural disasters were attributed to evil shamans. According to Russell Ruiz, repeated use of Datura brought on pronounced changes in character; the user became more and more antisocial. Those with great shamanistic power acquired through years of Datura drinking frequently lived apart from other people (cf. Blackburn 1974:text 78), and they often had reputations for capricious malevolence." Unfortunately, it appears that in humans' habitual use of Datura even given proper preparation there's a rather substantial downside. As they seem to develop the dark triad of personality traits(Psychopathy, Machiavellianism, and Narcissism which are like the holy trinity of selfishness). It could be argued that the Chumash may be in error here. However, bear in mind that Datura in general is something seen as a positive in their culture. So if anything they would have exactly the opposite bias, and any evidence to the contrary they would be likely to write off. Conclusions While it's technically true that there exists incredible potential in Datura for spiritual work and development. There's unquestionably a limit to how powerful one can become via Datura consumption before they become twisted into a maniacal monster. At the same time, however, Datura is a potent poison for almost any fool who consumes the plant not knowing what they're doing. And only on scantly rare occasions do recreational users have a positive experience and gain anything of value in any productive capacity from doing this. However, Datura is also very useful in a medicinal capacity. Not just in the myriad of ways that conventional science is aware. But also to enable magical healing. Datura and plants similar to it have no doubt been leveraged by many a Shaman and Witch/Warlock to help themselves and even others in this capacity. However, at the end of the day, for one seeking any serious degree of occult power, without devolving into a vehemently selfish devil then she should be avoided.