Mixcoatl

@Joseph Maynor exactly!! We use it every day, and we don't even think about these things when we watch our clocks or our gas levels.

I think that's a good point to consider when measuring. Or how measuring alters the system in quantum physics

@yetineti i Just read again all the thread, making an exercise of modesty this time to see that you are expressing the same. I'm really amazed how measurements need to be very accurate for things like the hadron collider or advanced science. But somehow, they will always escape from the grounding.

Ok, we agreed on that point. What I wanna say is that it goes beyond that first reference system (maybe you know it already): measurements are not absolute because the whole system of definitions is circular because the definition of meter depends on the definition of meter, eventually. If you pick the word "hypothesis", you look for its definition on a dictionary, that depends on other words. If you follow the chain, eventually you will get a definition that uses the word "hypothesis". Then, the definition of the word "hypothesis" depends on itself. Measurements define nothing because they are circular.

@Leo Gura what you mean when you say everything is eternal? Doesn't it break the law of impermanence?

No because we're talking about different things. You're talking about precision and the standards of a scale.

@yetineti I mean the first one. I'm referring on how floating is the act of measuring. Of course, the precision is implicit there, but that's not the point. What I'm trying to say is how they try to make universe objective by saying "science deals with objective definitions"... as DeGrasse keeps on saying, by the way. They say cesium is highly stable because they compare the frequency with the occurrence of other cesium or other events in universe. But they don't know if it occurred in 5 sec or one million years, or instantly, so to speak. Another example: time depends on how things change. If you don't have anything at all of course you can't talk about time. Velocity is defined on how something changes it's position across time (v=d/t), but time is the measure of how things change position. The system is all floating.

@yetineti I'm not referring to the precision of a scale. I mean, a scale, let's say, something that measures distance like meter, has to be defined by another phenomenon of different nature. Meter is defined by the distance light travels in (1/c seconds). Second is defined by comparing this scale with another phenomenon: number of times a cycle of the energy of radiation of cesium occurs, this is frequency. But frequency is f=1/s, which makes the comparison circular! Because second is depending on something that depends on the definition of second. Every time you find a scale, you will see that its definition depends on the definition of another scale that in time depends of the definition of another, creating in time a circular chain of definitions. Similar to what happens with words. What I want to say is that every scale is not an objective way of seeing the universe, no matter how precise is the scale. It just shows how congruent is the universe within itself.

I'm getting bald too fast. I've tried many things. I won't quit dairy products bc I love the cheese on my pizzas. I'll try capixyl. Minoxidyl dries the skin This is a better option for me

How to make women squirt. 😅 No, seriously: His "deconstructing rationality" series. Why brains do not exist Why is there something rather than nothing. Understanding infinity I have to thank Leo for this 🖤🩶

One thing that I'm trying to put into words: If universe is made up of material stuff, there must be a database or register of every bit of matter. It can't be otherwise than everything is self knowing, but this is consciousness. Materialism is not consistent.

Agree. It makes them less objective because they try to measure the change of time in which they are occurring.

A meter (m) is defined by the distance that light travels in a certain defined period. Hence, the definition of meter depends on the definition of time. Time definition, a second (s), is defined by the period occurred during a certain number of times a cycle of the radiation of cesium occurs. But this is circular because frequency is defined by time!!

Of course! A raccoon's butthole is eternal because it is an idea. Same as triangle properties. Both need a mind to be actualized.

Doesn't make it subjective that measurements are always relative to the scale you're using? That scale had to be defined by another scale making all the measurements always a relative comparison in an infinite chain or a circular chain of measurements and definitions. 😅