WelcometoReality

@Nadosa What helped me during similiar times was getting more in touch with my body. Exercise is a way to drain away resistances that may arise. Also the thoughts occuring might be connected with feelings in the body. Explore those feelings without mentally label them.

What is this meaning/meaninglessness? Where in your experience does it occur? Do you have any daily practice you use? Something like surrender can help you to let go of resistances.

I would say that separation from others is caused by the mind and all suffering too. It depends on how one defines suffering though. What I've heard is that awakening through the heart takes longer time than awakening through mind but both are legit ways though.

@mochafrap Attachment is a concept used to describe the movement of the separate self. Ultimately it's true that only this moment exist and that you are everything and nothing but unless you have realized that the movement of the separate self continues to cling onto (attach) and push away experiences. Demonizing something is equal to pushing it away. That it is bad and unwanted. That is a movement of the separate self. Isn't it hilarious that the separate self demonizes itself?

@SaaraSabina You'll act without thinking how you should act. It will be spontaneous and effortless. You'll be yourself.

@Superfluo Do you really need to know this? Does meditation work for you to achieve your desired outcomes? The realization is that there is no you to perceive sounds. The perception happens without any perceiver and the boundary of inside and outside dissolves.

Have you heard about the concept of oneness? This might be an avenue to explore. Would you say that you are experiencing duality now? You, which is nothingness or whatever word you prefer, and everything else. What chooses which thoughts and feelings to act upon? Are there "resistance" to certain thoughts and feelings?

@lmfao If it's grounded in you own enlightenment work then, yes, there is a point to talk about it. But if it's just a random discussion about spiritual concepts it's just a distraction.

@Nadosa Yeah the pendulum back and forth is no joke. But you are alone in this, completely alone.

@Baotrader if the body is in pain there will be pain unless you take painkillers. Is that what you are talking about or is it 'negative' feelings in the stomach area such as fear or anxiety?

It's easy to take these spiritual concepts and turn them into beliefs about reality. These beliefs manifests in the body as those negative feelings you describe. What are actually true in your own experience? Are these beliefs true? Do you identify with nothing or a person?

@CroMagna Yes do nothing meditation is a way to let go of control. The desire to quiet the mind is the will to control.

What is it that wants to be without thought?

Why? I'm sure mind will come up with alot of answers. But there is no answer to this. It just happens. 1. There is no source. 2. The same reason we do the laundry or go out for a walk.

Do you have to silence it, can't you just stop listening to it?

@non_nothing In a conversation between two people one talks while the other one listens. The talk. What does the talking? The listening. What listens?

@Brivido You don't have to read about it, you can investigate that within your own experience.

@NoSelfSelf It's like @Hellspeed said, a transitional stage. It takes a while for the realization to purge the body.

@Tony 845 To proceed with the discussion I think it's good that we define the different applications to using a therapist and then rule out the applications that would'nt be needed in an enlightened society. The applications that I can see is: Ego-related issues like lack of self esteem, mentally induced depression etc. group dynamics like family and small businesses "Bad" Behavior patterns Addictions Drugs, porn, work, gaming Physical disorders like borderline, depression, bipolar, shizophrenia Feel free to add to the list. The first one I would rule out is Ego-related issues. Those would fall away after awakening.

@FredFred Different states come and go. Those are not problems. But what is it that want to hold on to different states?

@danton Why do one or the other? You can have a spiritual practice alongside your ordinary life. Better yet incorporate the practice into your life so that's fully integrated with your daily chores.

That is a whole other topic imo. So you don't mistake any concept for truth?

Are you trying to get back there? Did you try to get there the first time?

What I'm saying is that they are two different things. That actuality is PRIOR TO concepts. They are not simultaneous. What is more real, the actual seeing or the concept of the seeing? And what if you mistake all these concepts of seeing for actual seeing. Wouldn't that be like living in a dream world?

Here is an analogy that hopefully makes sense. Think of a computer that contains an image file. The raw data on that file is just 0:s and 1:s. The computers uses a software program to interpret this data to create an image on the screen. Without the interpretation it would just be 0:s and 1:s on the screen. In the same way there is the raw data of seeing on the screen of awareness. The mind then interprets the data on the screen and makes distinctions like "my hand", "table" and so on. Actuality is the raw data on the screen. The software interpretations are mind creating the distinctions like "my hand" and "table". The looking on my hand practice is a way to bypass the software.