meta_male

Yep, I keep burning myself out over and over. I've stepped back and shifted focus for periods of time before, but I don't have a single experience to look back on and say "stepping back was worth it". Also, I haven't read one single success story where "stepping back" suddenly was key, it's never produced anything good for me in the past. So...what about it helps? Not whining, just literally can't see how it's meant to. Also, what do you mean by more efficient ways to live?

This year I pushed myself harder with dating. Not doing mass approaches but still approaching, taking the lead on dates, doing all the planning. The result was rejection after rejection. And the few women who do show interest often don't follow through and flake, then randomly show up again. After several messy relationships and situationships my filter has sharpened. I'm not lowering the bar just to get between some woman's legs. Which leaves me here: high standards, almost no results and the constant grind of being the one who has to make a move. This is burning me out. Not the rejections itself, I can take that and still feel fine afterwards, but the structure of the game. Women get to sit back, do jackshit and just choose. Meanwhile men gotta do 95% of the work for near zero return. The effort is so high none of the outcomes feel even remotely worth it. Ironically, I've got a few women I meet here and there, there is some activiy in the background...but very one sided and effort heavy on my part. So even with that I don't feel wanted if I gotta be the one pushing everything forward all the time. I don’t buy the “grind harder” mindset anymore or the “love shows up when you least expect it". I've experimented with both long enough and I'm still left with breadcrumbs and now hitting a wall. So to the guys who've been there: how the hell do you stomach this? How you keep going when the rules are stacked like this? I don't want pity, I want real, grounded frames and mindsets that stops this from turning into bitterness.

It wasn't about her. It was more about a week of getting hit by multiple rejections in different areas and I couldn't make sense of it. The inner conflict had more to do with that pile-up than with her. Looking back I’ve noticed a pattern when it comes to being in different states: State 1: I chase what I want > it slips right away, I get rejected. State 2: I don’t chase at all and just hope for things to happen > usually too late/silence. State 3: I find an inner calm, neither desperate nor indifferent > mostly silence, no reciprocation, life becomes boring. Nothing meaningful has come from this state. State 4: Fully absorbed in a hobby or long term plans > things suddenly happen: people reach out, life floods in. Reaching this state takes takes a lot of effort, I can't stay in it permanently. The catch is as soon as I leave it, everything that came from it slips away too.

Update: Another rejection. My brain is fried, can literally feel heat coming off it through my skull. Honestly hard to take this right now, especially with work also adding to the overload. Small progress though, I've noticed the urge to bulldoze several times over the past days and been able to choose a more civilised reaction instead. Will book IFS-session again and ground myself. I really admire you guys who manage to stay centered through this.

@T_i_m Yep, same here. Reading some perspectives beyond full-on pickup was actually refreshing though. This thread helped a lot already. Thank you everyone, appreciate all the advice from @Joshe and analysis from @Natasha Tori Maru. Will reply later, pretty busy atm.

Most circles I had faded. The newer ones are smaller, some good quality people from work, hobbies, old friends. Only recently started on being social again. But picking up more momentum this year.

True. Though for me there's never really a finished moment to bring her in. There's always more to build and improve. But it's starting to click, appreciate it. Curious... how did you get through your own healing phase without losing it, was visualising really it? I can see that girl being part of my life and can see me... a different version haha! Still, I can't picture just naturally crossing paths with her without turning it into strategy.

@Xonas Pitfall In terms of actuals numbers, I’m not running heavy volume right now. On Instagram I talk to maybe one woman occasionally, most of my friends aren’t active there. Approaches per day, from zero to a few casual interactions with strangers, not necessarily attractive women. I’m not doing calculated pickup style approaches, more like spontaneous exchanges. Also notice logistics and environment play big role most of my activities (riding, trails, outdoors) rarely put me in contact with single women. Winter should create more overlap, will test out this season. Apps have worked fine (deleted recently), got around 30-40 numbers from them, 90% are dry, some texted when I was in a relationship. In person, almost none, interactions end naturally without number exchanges. Also noticed I only follow up when logistics are already clear, not great at spontaneous setups yet. As for goals...I think I want casual sex but what actually grounds me is connecting deeply with one woman. Which is when I lose interest in others. When I hit a dry phase (between relationships) I spiral mentally. Analytical, independent, casual, direct. Still learning calm instead of intensity when emotionally charged. Emotionally calm and systematic in physically risky situations. Sensitive, emotional, introspective, aesthetic awareness. No problem communicating boundaries but hard time stating my needs. Not as consistent as I'd like. Sometimes on a high for several months, then hit a low and gotta recharge, replan my life. Physically fit, body ectomorph, grooming and fashion no brainer. Connection first, not just sex, but also don’t deny the drive. Ideally casual start with potential to deepen. Long term I want one self aware, emotionally present woman with backbone and warmth. Lately been thinking more about family which adds to pressure. I'm 33 and not ready. Maybe 1-4 women here and there, sometimes none. Honestly don't know yet how to increase that volume effectively. Awkwardness around 3-4/10 with strangers, 0-1/10 when in flow. Reactions range from flirty, curious, blushing to bored or indifferent when I feel off. I rarely approach an attractive woman with direct intent, usually it's for some another reason. Not a hidden motive, just not a dating frame. This is probably the core block.

Agreed, I can definitely bulldoze my way through at times and then become resentful. Old wiring that isn't needed anymore. I'll work through @Xonas Pitfall's questions bit later when I got more time, some good points have been raised in his post. I could reach out to 3 girls right this second but I got a mental block that prevents me from doing so, depending on my state. Same with doing more approaches. Romantic idealism. I get out of that state when I'm in my zone, which is my hobby. At the same time there's a sort of panic surfacing when I immerse myself in anything other than figuring out dating. My mind goes: "You built your life from scratch for a decade and still lacking in your love life, you're way off track."

If you have feedback feel free to address me directly instead of analysing from the sidelines. This side of me is definitely newer and probably overcompensated at times, yeah.

Makes sense. I might have built that same armor to not feel like I'm losing control. It probably started as protection, but now it's the fire that drives and energises me.

@Princess Arabia Why "Princess Arabia"? That's some queen energy right there. And sure, there’s something to what you said, but maybe the other way around. I used to be more in my feminine...soft, accommodating, too empathetic. Now I’ve integrated the masculine, and that’s actually where I feel most alive and seen. Either way, demand is high and supply is gone.

@Schizophonia I'm not operating through that psychoanalytic lens, so most of that stuff doesn't land for me. I'm not shy, I'm not struggling with being seen in public. I made my account private cause I'd been close to writing stuff that could've gotten me banned due to trauma triggers, and I didn't want personal info out there without being able to change it. But yes, my mother was rather narcissistic and my dad was weak and depressed.

Yes of course I'm attached to results. I want to get laid more. And tbh, anything short of that feels like the effort wasn't worth it. I've heard the advice a hundred times: if sex is the crown, you're always walking around uncrowned. Women can smell the desperation from a mile away. But it doesn't stop the mental loop. This stuff is in my head 24/7. My whole life revolves around it. Whether I like it or not, a huge part of my self worth seems to be tied to how women respond to me. That's true. I'm not, not in the dating context anyway. The only times I feel alive and in flow are when I'm off-grid in my zone, doing things that have nothing to do with chasing women. Ironically, that's also when most opportunities show up. In that state I'm so in my element I'm not even bothered about making a move, because I feel an infinite abundance of opportunites. My mind goes: no urgency, no pressure...let them make the move.

For the record, I do enjoy being a man. I thrive in male-dominant environments. Leadership, pushing limits, competition, brotherhood...and I would count myself to be in the mastery phase there. If I regret anything it's not having been recruited into the army. I regularly out-compete other guys...except when it comes to dating. I actually dislike feminine environments, so it's not like I resent masculinity itself or wish to be on the receiving end like women are. I’m not allergic to effort. I grew up in a social environment where women actively hit on me and invested first. I know what it feels like to be wanted by the opposite sex. So when I say it's one sided it's not just my perception, it's a before and after contrast. I know what mutual effort and interest feel like. Since leaving that environment, I haven't been able to recreate anything close to it in the past decade, and that's part of why the current dating dynamic feels brutally one sided. Now I'm trying to figure out how to stomach a system where that kind of reciprocity seems to have vanished.

I don't consider myself short but I don't think being short automatically means you're physically weaker or less capable. Two random people came to mind: Marc Marquez (MotoGP): he dominates one of the most physically challenging sports out there. Eminem: people don't respect him for his size, but for his intensity and confidence. It's frustrating when people judge you on something you can't control, but there are advantages. Like being underestimated and then proving people wrong. A short person doing something with their life carries way more presence than some tall person. Gives off that badass underdog vibe.

No contradiction. So you're saying you see both...the zombie and the divine in the zombie.

@emil1234 These are honest, good faith questions and there should absolutely be space for this kind of dialogue here. It's not more attacking than how Leo sometimes addresses his forum members, fair is fair. Might even help him off his pedestal. Everyone can still support the retreat while allowing room for critical thinking.

You've dedicated your life to teaching people how to realise they're God. But if you still believe they behave like rats and dogs...what's the point of teaching them? Do you ever see that behaviour in yourself too? I am a human and I don't worship you. Doesn't that disprove it's inevitable humans worship someone behaving god-like?

Even if it's true that some humans behave like rats, isn’t it more powerful to speak with the compassion we wish they had? True, wanting adoration and receiving it aren't necesseraliy the same. You've reapeated it over and over, yet people still do it. You believe it's impossible to dismantle the structure that enables that dynamic?

Honestly, some of this language feels dehumanising and self-contradictory. Talking about people as "rat-like" and labelling critics as "enemies" seems more controlling than freeing. Of course people are going to put you on a pedestal...you've helped change a lot of lifes. But you also position yourself as their leader in "this work", even if it's only in between the lines.

What do you need to protect yourself from when you say you're looking for ways to armor yourself?

Fair point, you didn't directly address what I said about critical thinking. That's why I said the point was missed. Not necessarily rejected, just not engaged with.

I know. We agree on this.

@Daniel Balan Let him earn a million from this, I don't care. What I'm saying is: pause and examine the power dynamics at play. Especially before handing over your money. This is not anti Leo, this is pro critical thinking. Many of you are emotionally invested in the dude and end up bypassing critical judgment because of it. You're lucky it's Gura and not Applewhite.