The0Self

It's pointing to what enlightenment is. Anyone who achieves it will say something along the lines of: "where the fuck is enlightenment?" Since there's no one left to be enlightened. It is most certainly not spiritual in any way, even though it is what all spirituality is pointing to. However, what does spirituality often function as? It functions as the guardian of this state -- preventing it from happening by offering hope, when enlightenment involves absolutely no hope whatsoever. The non-teachings you mention are the most direct possible pointings, take it or leave it. Essentially.

I spent a lot of time with that one.

Enlightenment would be the apparent end of the illusory dualistic subject object reality in which a real someone explores a world out there. There isn't anyone looking at your screen, there's just this singular appearance, but it's only an appearance, it's not limited by circumstance, and isn't true. But no one ever becomes conscious of that, because there is no separation. Enlightenment is just the truth, it has nothing to do with happiness and mindfulness, but it will be associated with no beliefs being taken as real, but it's not that there's someone left experiencing their beliefs as not real, there's just no context to the limitless appearance.

He's doing great work, but the truth is simpler and more mind-blowing. It's still only a pointer and a story, but... You are infinity, or absolutely nothing, longing for its own absence -- i.e. something. So you imagine something (else). But where you now seem to be, in that apparent duality, is still just nothing, but there is the apparent claim that there is someone where that nothing is. And out of that apparent someone is the longing for its own absence as well, which is futile because it's already the case -- that someone is nowhere to be found, already.

He's rather intelligent is all. Not anti-spiritual, just ignorant of what enlightenment is. Only seems to be materialistic due to him not having transcended his own skepticism. He's stated many times that the fact that something seems to be, is the one thing that can't be an illusion -- this means he's at least not completely ideologically attached to materialism as an ultimate ground. You can get a good picture of his take on spirituality by listening to his Jim Newman and Rupert Spira conversations. In the Spira conversation it's clear he's confused about the non-assuming nature of the nondual-consciousness-only model. And in the Newman conversation it's clear that he confuses enlightenment with samadhi, concentration, detachment, mindfulness, and higher states of consciousness. He's fairly pragmatic (as opposed to truth-seeking) with spirituality, and isn't quite aware of how enlightenment works. I always liked him a lot -- really eloquent with his speech; fun to listen to -- even though he sometimes drops the ball on politics (e.g. the Charles Murray stuff, depending on who you ask)... but even so, he seems to be a very honest and intelligent actor. He deals with practical spirituality and while I think he does good work, he does imply that he is sometimes talking about enlightenment, but in reality he has absolutely no clue what enlightenment is. Basically he primarily seems to be into becoming more mindful and wieldy with the mind.

This comes out of the experience of separation. You are attacking a straw man. It is perfectly logical, what you’re saying...if only it related to what we’re talking about here. Nonduality does not mean only my mind exists, nonduality points to there being no mind, and no self... and no other; no separation; no context; no reality; no knowing; no one separate from this; no this; no need; no condition; no limit; no thing. Only truth... which cannot be actually objectively or certainly known, but is apparently directly and doubtlessly known. If nonduality is apparently seen, all that’s left is what is happening — not what is happening apparently in an exclusive here and now, but rather what is happening anywhere/everywhere and whenever/eternally/timelessly, but obviously nobody is aware of that. Solipsism as you recognize it is a caricature form of solipsism which is unrelated to the solipsism that merely points to truth.

The research is a mere shadow of what can be gleamed from it in direct experience through daily meditation. Especially using a proven system like TMI or TWIM to start out with before you start going your own way with it.

There's no my this and your this, there's only this, and no you or me, only God. All there is to the wave (appearance) is the water (consciousness), the wave isn't actually something there that could even be separate from or not separate from water. There are no separate things -- it's an illusion.

Nothing wrong with seeking out positive experiences -- even after enlightenment this can happen. But as you alluded to it wouldn't be seen as a gain for what you are, since there is only wholeness. It can sort of involve a trading of the suffering/happiness cycle for the joy/peace cycle. Maybe ask the reactive imaginary ego (who may pretend to be you) "and then what?" to the "and then I'll truly be happy" trap, if it arises.

If there were no self left there might not even be a holding back of these feelings and even their expression. You're afraid of what it would mean for you to act out in these ways emotionally, creating a non-flow-state -- coming from a perspective wherein some things are better than other things, which is the character suit and it's natural in that even it isn't a real problem. This isn't prescriptive just descriptive.

Yeah I was just throwing it out there. It’s not that kind of fantasy, at least not one that I identify with. I don’t actually long for it, I’ve just witnessed just this seemingly almost starting to appear in my life but it was far off and definitely wouldn’t have happened (and names are obviously changed). Just expressing it to explore the topic of primary and secondary partners if anyone here has experienced something like that. I haven’t really either. And I don’t even know if anyone has (successfully) — just curious to find out. ? What it is though, is a vision of how things could have turned out with a whole bunch of synchronicities taking place incidentally. I don’t regret not having the experience, it’s just vivid and it got me curious if anyone else has experienced something similar — not that anything is necessarily to be gained. i.e. not a personal thing for my benefit in any way. Just distributing a bit of discussion potential. Not for any serious purpose and especially not my purpose.

I have primary partner, Elen, who herself has secondary partner John. And I have secondary partner Trina, who has primary partner John. All four partners have both a primary and secondary partner of the opposite sex (all are essentially heterosexual but Elen is slightly bi and Trina is slightly bicurious but currently hasn’t come to terms with that, and both the guys are quite straight but not homophobic). And the two women are both secondary (perhaps tertiary) partners, and the guys are as well but not sexually. Wonder how this would play out ? Just to be clear this is only a fantasy. But I do wonder how the dynamics would play out. Surely it’s been done at least once by some quartet at some point ?

Nice! It is entirely already directly seen that movement is completely still. Since that is always the case, it isn’t noticed. Like a fish forgetting what water is.

Infinite intelligence. Seems like your character is assuming some things to be better than other things. Not that that’s a problem, it’s just a story. Mine does that too, but only apparently as a story and it’s not even really mine. But God doesn’t have that problem at all.

Probably a nice quietude of mind or glimpse of some form of cessation. Enlightenment or no-self is not an experience like that -- it's nothing really to be sought, because the good and the bad side of it are one: the fact that it is the end of the search; the end of the seeming possibility of any of your ideas about enlightenment coming to pass.

And even that (and the following) is a story. But it points (and this points) beyond. It’s too simple to get but also not possible nor “meant” to be gotten by the individual, which is (literally) not real.

It’s a dramatization of the experience of the individual. The only obstacle to transcending the ego is the flat total impossibility of the ego ever seeing that there is no ego.

Doing so would be in a sense totally beside the point. No one ever does anything — If you feel that you do do things, that’s a dream... and I t’s extremely fundamental to the experience of individuality. It isn’t going to be overcome by any normal means especially just changing your speech. It requires facing fear head-on and self-effacement. Though in retrospect even that is literally completely false — because nothing is true, there is only absolute truth. Sense is merely an appearance. Infinite is infinitely infinite.

Yellow. Doesn’t mean their life will be better. And yes that is a bit of a paradox, but not really.

Do you know what's worth fighting for When it's not worth dying for? Does it take your breath away And you feel yourself suffocating? Does the pain weigh out the pride? And you look for a place to hide? Did someone break your heart inside? You're in ruins One, twenty one guns Lay down your arms Give up the fight One, twenty one guns Throw up your arms into the sky, You and I When you're at the end of the road And you lost all sense of control And your thoughts have taken their toll When your mind breaks the spirit of your soul Your faith walks on broken glass And the hangover doesn't pass Nothing's ever built to last You're in ruins One, twenty one guns Lay down your arms Give up the fight One, twenty one guns Throw up your arms into the sky, You and I Did you try to live on your own When you burned down the house and home? Did you stand too close to the fire? Like a liar looking for forgiveness from a stone When it's time to live and let die And you can't get another try Something inside this heart has died You're in ruins One, twenty one guns Lay down your arms Give up the fight One, twenty one guns Throw up your arms into the sky, One, twenty one guns Lay down your arms Give up the fight One, twenty one guns Throw up your arms into the sky, You and I

? ?

Yes. But the knower is the very one who is the primary illusion.

Focus on the speed of the breath and especially on the endings. And very steady. It can get like “*air movement* BOOM.. *air movement* BOOM” and it can draw you into samadhi.

I have found low doses of alcohol plus huge doses of cannabis to be very marginally spiritually beneficial, in the same way as any other psychedelic (at “earlier stages” of the whole psychedelic exploration thing) but to a laughably lesser degree.

Apparently it was the cleanest dissociative of all time. And in relatively small doses I’ve heard it reported to literally induce a sort of state mimicking (kind of; maybe a just little bit ? ...) samādhi wherein one goes through their usual functional life from a completely detached perspective, while in the background there’s an orgasmically euphoric bliss (I haven’t used it myself so I can’t actually confirm). Stuff like that. And nothing can be improved upon the k hole (death of causality), but the “m hole” it seems is at least as incredible. Though at so-called “higher levels of consciousness” one could say this really does not matter. To whom it may concern, I don’t have a damn care in the world to use it. And I was very big on dissociatives for spiritual work. Apparently it was quite special in the eyes of recreational psychedelic users though.