w4read

The word "superior" is rather arbitrary and is, as many people have already pointed out, dependent on the context. But I do think that things like physical strength and other more general differences between men and women can play a pretty big role in certain context in todays society. If I, as a man, for example, approach a woman in the club or on the street I would have to be aware of the fact that that could potentially feel threatening to her if I didn't respect her boundaries. Because if I didn't I could potentially harm her. I don't think that dynamic would be there if women in general were physically stronger than men. But again, to say that that makes men superior to women would just be a stupid and arbitrary statement.

I agree. And I'm not nesscesarily critical of it being like that. It's just an interesting dynamic and something I feel it's important to at least be aware of when people are coming up with different views. In a sense the bias serves a very specific purpose in not allowing all kinds of crazy view points ruining the productivity of the discussion which I think is valid. I guess you pretty much summed it up here

I think its important to be aware of the privilege of having what is considered to be more "evolved views". Or in other words, views that are more "relativistically true". Because if you were to say something like "feminism is important" or "we have to fight racism", you wouldn't really have to ellaborate much on any of those views because they're generally accepted and people would agree on it without nescessarily asking you WHY you hold those views. But if you were to say the opposite you would better have some pretty good arguments to back those claims up without appearing to be a troll. And even then some people would probably view it as trolling. So that can make it extra hard for the people who actually have something that's a bit unconventional to share which adds value to the discussion. Imagine that it was opposite. Everybody could deny racism and endorce Trump and that was sort of the accepted truth, but if you were to say the opposite YOU would have to be the one coming up with the convincing arguments and people would approach your arguments with scepticism. Also I don't think this "having an agenda" stuff is unique for any side of the discussion. I must say I find people in general to come across as pretty convinced most of the time in their statements. This applies to both sides, it just turns out that the left side of the spectrum tend to be more relativistically correct because they are more developed ( in general) than your typical hardcore Trump-supporter. Both sides have their egos and want to defend their views for whatever the reason is for why they hold them. That's at least my experience. I've also fallen to this trap myself several times.

I think the idea that you should avoid negative people overall is not really solving the core issue and is unrealistic at best. I mean, good luck not having ONE single person that is not negative from time to time. Most of us will have several and even though you should get rid of the most toxic, some negativity will still persist. So the problem of knowing how to handle situations where people are negative and puts you down seems pretty legit to me. I don't know the answer to this, but at least I know something that doesn't work. And that is to not have any boundaries and always "turn the other cheek" as they say. I use to think that if i ignored the jokes of people they would stop teasing me, but eventually they just started teasing me even more. And as much as i wanted to pretend that it didn't exist and that "those guys were the problem, because bullies are just people who didn't have a good chilhood" it didn't help me and I lost a lot of respect because of my inability to stand up for myself. So a practical, in depth " how to deal with shittalk" guide would be pretty nice I'd say. And also, if you don't have the pure negativity of people just trying to pull you down, you can also have someone who playfully tease you or try to be above you in some way. So being able to know how to smoothly deal with those situations is also not a bad idea I think. It's like Game. Yes, inner game is great, but you can't live solely on high state and confidence. You also gotta have some real content to back it up.

@Apparition of Jack With that logic you could also say that Donald Trump isn't stage red because he hasn't beaten up someone yet. I'm curious to have a more in depth discussion though about the difference between unhealthy green and red, because sometimes I find them hard to distinguish. In the context of this being university students I would feel confident that this is just unhealthy green, but I don't think that there's anything in the action ( seen seperately) that could exclude red.

There's a lot of talk about discrimation these days, both when it comes to racism and sexism and people are fighting and cheering against it, which is awesome. A lot of people have as a result opened their eyes to the fact that these things, which some might thought belonged to the past, still exist to a significant degree today. Another type of discrimation that also exist, but which tends to get swept under the radar, or just accepted as a part of reality, is lookism. The fact that people who are unattractive tend to get a worse treatment in many areas of life, both in relationships and also in the work place. I've been contemplating this for a while and have been wondering why there's so little focus on it. It sure is a bad thing if people get hired or promoted based on how they look, if parents treat the children that are best looking and that they therefore like the most best, or if people who are bad looking just generally get treated more badly. What's your thoughts on this? Is lookism a real problem in society? And if so, do you have any solution to how we can overcome it?

@Consept @soos_mite_ah Interesting points, that makes a lot of sense. So i guess you could say that there are pros and cons and leave it at that. On the other hand, you could also say that this makes the phenomenon even more worthy of discussion and contemplation. Cause this doesn't only affect ugly people, but in a sense it also affect people who look good or particularly good who can develop an identity and attachment around being beautiful which makes them less able to face life when shit gets tougher. This is one of the things I like about feminism ( at least the healthy version). People are quick in shutting it down by saying "men also have problems" and thereby dismissing the whole movement. Whereas They themselves recognize that it's not just women who struggle, but also men have their areas where they struggle too and integrate their problems as a part of the movement. When that's said, I don't think lookism can be compared at the same scale as feminism and racism, but more awareness to it wouldn't hurt I guess.

Agree. And probably what makes sexism and racism easier to focus on is that the distinctions male/female and black/white are clearer, and therefore it's easier to spot and measure the magnitude of discrimation in those cases. After all, who looks good and who doesn't and therefore get's treated better or worse, is not objective and can probably change a lot between different circumstances. But maybe the focus and general valuation of looks is something that puts us more in that frame with the increased impact of social media and online dating apps and stuff like this.

Would this go for potential relationships as well, or just for casual hook ups?

Loving reality as it is while at the same time aspiring to change it, and take 100% responsibility for that change

@Farnaby I can totally relate to this. I'm not an introvert though, but I have struggled a lot with being expressive and have had this fear of looking weird or getting into conflicts with people ( just generally people pleaser mentality). But I've worked a lot with it the last couple of years and it has improved a lot and I feel more natural when I'm in social situations or having conversations. I used to have monologues for 20 minutes every day talking about something that inspired me and just letting my thought process go naturally while practicing expressions, hand gestures and vocal tonality. It took a while before I was able to translate it to the real world, because when you can't see yourself in the mirror you don't get the same accurate impression of how you're actually "doing" so to speak. But after a while it comes natural to you and it feels more comfortable than if you were not doing it. Seems like you're on the right track though, so just keeping pushing the comfort zone and it should all work out

I think it is more common for girls to approach guys in countries where equality has come further, typically stage green countries like Canada and Scandinavian countries. But it's still much more common even in countries like these that guys approach girls. If you're not very good looking you would have to approach most of the time. However, In these countries the girls don't respond that well to things that are supposed to make you look valuable, and it's much more easy to come across as too cocky which will turn the girls off. Most of the girls also prefer to be more active in choosing the guys and not just the other way around. That's at least my experience.

@Roy This discussion has come up so many times and the conclusion is and has always been: Use the forum for what you find valuable and leave the rest. If you only care about self actualization, then why would you care if other people are "wasting their time" on the political subforum? I mean it's "personal development" which means that it should only be about yourself and no one else..

I pretty much agree with most of the things that's been said here, in other words it's okay to pay for a woman as long as it's not done because of a feel of obligation. If you are a typical nice guy that's probably where you're coming from though and I think in that case, you would be better of not paying for women an even be a little extra cheap just to push through that boundary. I've seen a lot of guys who are very nice and respectful to girls and also do very well even with hot ones. However, the difference between those and the ones who aren't that succesful, is that they usually were more on the bad side in their past, and while now being nice, they have therefore sort of transended that. So they know how to be an asshole, but they choose to be nice ( in most cases). However they are usually very assertive and go for what they want, but not in this assholish way, where it's screw everyone and everything. The problem with a nice guy is that he basically has no other option than being nice, and when a girl sense that, that's where the problems start.

@Roy I think the buyer/seller analogy explains it much better. So if you have a good product as a seller ( good looks, personality, status etc.) your product (you) will be easier to sell to the buyer ( the girl). A bad product requires better selling skills, but ideally you improve your product ( aka yourself) so that the buyer actually purchases something they are happy with. If not, the customer won't come back ( aka you don't get the chance to form a long term relationship) and you can eventually get a bad reputation which hinders further sales. But yeah, even that analogy has it weaknesses of course, but i think it's much better than the previous. Because believe it or not, sometimes the girl actually want to buy the product from the get-go, and the only thing that can ruin at that point is if the guy oversells himself. Tell me about a rabbit who at any point in time wanted to be hunted down buy a wolf lol.

Well, from the side line, I must say that I don't think it is the best analogy lol.. Because it implies that it is not in the best interest for the girl to be with the guy, and that the guy has to trick her in some way, like a wolf sneaks up on the rabbit. If you frame pick up like that, well of course someones gonna misinterpret it..

I think I'm currently at a place where I understand on an overall level that everyone is just taking what they themselves consider to be the correct actions based on their own situation and understanding of reality. And to some extent I'm also able to understand some particular aspects of even the most, let's say, "uncoventional" people. But I would like to develop this ability even further. I guess that's also a nescesarity if yor're going to help people develop themselves. In some sense you have to understand their own perspective better then even themselves.

Nice video! Russel is a legend haha. Also amazing how the youngest of the lunatics could say with such confidence and pride all the crazy shit he said. This is also something I've noticed a lot with stage red people, they often seem very confident and if it's wasn't so obvious that this guy is saying was completely crazy, it could be easy for other unknowing people to buy in.

@Rilles You're right. If people try hard enough, they can put all sorts of labels on you. And in the end it's up to them whether or not they are open to actually hear your words for what they are. And yes, if people read the text book description and the history of the movement there probably wouldn't be any problem at all if they came in to it with an open mind. In the mean time i will try to use a more precise vocabulary and try as best as i can not to be dragged into a labeling contest. So if someone has a different view on feminism, well hey, than I'm not a feminist in their view. I don't feel the need to claim any word, i just want to be understood and also understand.

You're not stuck using any word lol. Any of those words can be replaced with one or two sentences that gives more nuance than the word itself. The example I mentioned with pick up is obviously going to be more accurately received, than if i just say "sometimes I do pick up", because that could easily be interpreted as "I manipulate girls into sleeping with me". Now, some people will, even though I make a better discription still go back and say, "oh wait, isn't that pick up?", and then were back to scratch, but then at least I tried my best to give a more accurate description.

@Leo Gura haha LOL! But seriously though, what do you think about how these words are used? You feel like the brevity outweighs the lack of clarity? I know I said that I think feminist should keep the word regardless of how it is colored, but the more i think about it, the more i feel like it should adopt to how people perceive it. I mean, after all, the most important thing is to be understood, isn't it?

Feminism, pick up, socialism, conservativism, MRAs, right extremists... At some point you gotta ask yourself what's the point of using all these terms though, when there are so huge diversity in how these words are used and perceived. Like, if I tell a crowd of 20 people that I'm a "feminist" or that I do "pick up ", and those 20 people have totally different definitions/views on those terms, wouldn't it then be better if I said " I'm a huge believer of equal rights and I feel like we still have a long way to go" or " I really enjoy approaching girls and getting to share my authentic self and by that giving both her and my self a pleasant experience which could potentially lead to something more"? It would obviously make the communication more clear at least.

@Peter-Andre Absolutely. But I also think that the extremists have a tendency to be much louder than the rest, so it's probably a combination of cherry picking and the "extremists" being more visible. I actually lean more towards these types of misrepresentations happening unconciously more than deliberately.