Thought Art

@Natasha Tori Maru You say that as if she didn’t consent?

@Osaid No you created one 😄 If reality is one it’s one always. This isn’t hard.

Profound video. I don’t know if I can live up to this but it’s important to consider.

@Joseph Maynor Hmmm, well, you’ll have to decide I don’t know what you mean by attack. There have been people here actively accusing Leo of being a cult leader, many mods and members. This video destroys cults, belief, etc. A cult leader could not and would not make this video.

If you being abused here (which I doubt). You should probably leave. If this community, Leo, and his videos are not helping you or supporting you and you feel this way you should leave. Take a break. Always free to come and go. But, it’s obvious to me you guys don’t watch his videos. I know a lot of you have admitted this and then you wonder why this is so confusing. His epistemic responsibility video for example answers so much of your guys criticisms, and clears Leo’s attitudes towards these things.

@LordFall Don’t stress about it. Carl has been like this for years. Mods are individuals not yes men.

@Osaid If you think there is a difference between seeing and seen that’s a duality. This isn’t hard!

Relax and be well my friends. You don’t need to solve everything right now. All is well and already successful.

The vaste majority of the quotes shared in the opening post are not offensive to serious people. I can see how the first one is intentionally put first to trigger the reader and make the rest seem worse than they are. If death is infinity then obviously it would make you more conscious than a living human… why is that an issue? Other than that these are Leo’s views, opinions on other teachers and his own understanding speaking to individuals who we don’t know what they were saying when he responded or whether or not those people understood their points. I speak to you guys and read your comments. Leo is more right than you guys on the matters he speaks on… His epistemology as a whole is stronger than any of you here. And, it’s stronger than those teachers he listed in the comments in the opening sections. Not to say those teachers don’t offer things Leo doesn’t. But…. Leo’s work is overall stronger. This suggests he has a deeper, broader and more robust understanding. Some of you guys don’t even really know what Non-duality is, yet you’ll preach it. Some of you don’t know what the function of Buddhism is, yet you get upset when someone says it’s not God Realization. There is so much messiness here but you can’t even see it and when Leo points it out you cry fowl.

@Osaid Seeing is a chair or table if that’s what you’re seeing. You are sneakily creating a duality between consciousness and the subject within it. They are one…. That’s nonduality…

@Hojo Hi, I am the universe…

“It includes all, and therein, it cannot be said to be any of what it includes. Such is the non-dual nature of "it".” I would add and sort of correct to say, it includes all, and is all, therefore it’s nondual nature allows for the appearance and experience of dualistic qualia… Because it includes all, and it is all, even when you see a chair and a cup and a feeling of sadness… it’s all the same thing. Shiva, as the Non-dual Shiva Tantra would teach is the non-dual nature of Love and a cup and how they are identical in absolute reality. There has to be a oneness, a non-dualness/ nothingness which is infinitely intelligent to have anything in daily human life. Nonduality if it’s true includes all the various things you have experienced in your life. Also, nonduality not being any of what it includes implies two…. And what would separate them? Nothing!!

@Osaid What you say sound logical but that’s not what non-duality is. If reality is consciousness it’s the most conscious thing in existence by definition. If infinite didn’t include finite things (which there paradoxical aren’t even your pinky is infinite) then it would be finite not infinite. Non-duality doesn’t imply not two. It’s also a mental construct you have. I am in a room for example and I see a bottle and an iPad. The non-dual nature of this is that the iPad and bottle are the same thing, just appearing differently. Non-duality in daily human life is the sort of duality through artificial divisions. I mean, you admit you see more than one thing around you. In the oneness of your consciousness. From the Tao came the 10,000 things. This is essentially the Non-duality is the precursor for anything else. Reality has to be One and united. Has to be God, and it’s also happen to be an infinite mind. If you assume the mapping of non-duality you have is correct why is it riddled with paradox?

Stay well everyone, I will focus on my project here. 1,2,3,4!!!

No one is forced to watch the videos or interact on this web form. The internet is a huge place with lots of spiritual teachers…. You can choose things you know. You’re a free person. How does non-duality relate to God? Or Shiva, as is another name. If you think Non-duality is different than present movement experience with time passing by, other people to talk to, pain, different religions, etc… you don’t get it.

If someone did awaken to realize they were God, in a complete state of omnipresent consciousness… they would be the most conscious thing in the universe. If anyone did this, that would be true. This is only true if it’s possible, if that’s the true nature of reality, consciousness and if you are truly God. Only by actually becoming God, can someone truly know God due to its ontological nature. If God is true, and the big bang is not then the true science would have to include God, Awakening and Infinity. True understanding would have to close the gap between consciousness and the origin of consciousness. Reality that created itself would have to remerge into to completely understand and awaken to itself that its what it is and always has been. Then, if someone had done more philosophical work at a deeper, more broad level awakened and then returned to human consciousness they would be able to articulate this Oneness, this omnipresent truth of the fundamental nature of reality to others who are still in the dream. But, they could only communicate with with their finite psychology, limited human understanding, biases, imperfections, survival considerations, social contexts, etc. Other humans with no deep philosophical, meditative, and awakening experience would find that individual extremely threatening. They would accuse him of all sorts of things. If this is possible. But belief or disbelief isn’t good enough. If this is true, that it’s possible and can be done by most humans… but, we have never considered this widely as a species it’s surely going to be controversial because it would suggest that reality is by design not to expose us to our true nature as God. Though, over time it was built in to awaken of one chose to do this. If it’s true. I can see that being the case. There is clearly an intelligent design to human life with lots of relative spiritual teachings, beliefs, states, religions, etc. All this is good. Finite relative reality is good. Being God all the time, being totally aware of this isn’t all it’s cut out to be forever. It’s good to sleep because I, we, have forever…. Forever. So, enjoy the dream of being human, of debating, of trying to make sense of everything and the drama. It’s all here for us to experience. But, if it’s not possible then it’s false. And, someone could think they experienced this but didn’t and it could still ultimately be true. But, how do we know what is true about the fundamental nature of reality, mind, consciousness, the origin of existence, the meaning of life, etc? Can we take any other humans word for this? Even Leo’s? No. If we don’t want to pick up beliefs than we simply can’t know. So what is true that requires not believing? How does state of consciousness, which is prior to belief play into that? Expecting a guy on YouTube to be a saint, to never make a mistake, to make you feel good, when he admits to being an asshole makes no sense. I am a fan of the videos. I’m not convinced of it all being accurate. But, it’s pretty good. It helps me avoid a lot of illusion, make sense of how to approach the big picture. But, it’s a human doing it. Sooo…. I don’t expect perfection. These videos and these interactions with one man, can’t be how you go about spirituality in its entirety. Reality is brutish, it’s twisted its kind and loving but also war and bombs and sickness. You have to contend with this brutal, twisted reality we all share. All humans are in this game of survival and all by definition of being finite will have limitations, corruptions, ego, times when they aren’t kind to you, times when they don’t tickle you. Yes, many spiritual teachers are more sweet, kind, and considerate in how they speak. Leo is not like that. He has never been like that. Yet, you choose on your own free will to interact with him. Why? I am okay with people being offended by Leo. I don’t really care about that. His actions aren’t malicious in my view. People may never agree with me, and I’m fine with that. But, if you think I’m not a warrior you are wrong. I’m kind, I’m considerate. But, I am not nice. This is a moment in time. Humans are not fully evolved. We still have religions and belief systems held together by survival, symbolic understanding and feelings emotions and comfort. None of that is true. We have a science full of corruption, religions developed by ancient tribes who still hold human kind. Is human evolution some sweet and pretty little thing? Is that how you expect it to go? No. It’s going to be ugly and confusing and challenging. Painful. Scary. Brutish often. Even in this work, people have to have backbones against those with gross double standards.

Having read, listened to and devoured many sources over the years has actually made me respect Leo’s body of work more… not less. Not 100% of it, and not him on a personal level. But, his body of work is really interesting and valuable. This is me today, and I give myself permission completely to be wrong and correct as I love forward in time. Something I struggle with is that I find every human source questionable including Leo. Reality is too complex. Ever human is fallible and cannot be trusted with truth.

@zurew That is fair, I recall him admitting he was wrong about the camera. But, not the Alien state of consciousness. Umm, I don’t know. If I knew nothing about someone and was shown only a small amount of context especially the negative I’d probably view it negatively. For example, I view teal swan negatively but I know little about her. @Natasha Tori Maru That’s fair, and good job in those circumstances. I’ve been on the forum for years and rarely share that. I wouldn’t make it 10,000 plus posts if I was the kind of person to fly off the handle. It’s very rare, and I felt I could put that energy into my long and nuanced post. You aren’t better than me for not showing anger in those circumstances. Anger isn’t bad. Have you ever told someone to fuck off? Sometimes this is a good way to about something. It’s rare, and I would never do it without broader acknowledgement of a generalized respect. I’m also a man, and not a woman. And, at work I wouldn’t speak like how I may speak to people generally on this forum. Survival of course and context is relevant to how I choose to express myself. In my field telling someone to fuck off, can make you closer to them. I work with men and my work is dangerous and we depend on each other.

That quote isn’t directly related to that particular claim though. @Osaid haha, I recall him saying he was wrong. Is it cult like? Is it bad that he says certain things? I mean, I can see how people interpret that. But, that’s a perspective. I don’t think it’s totally true. That the only reason he says it is to control you. But, I’m gonna wade in this water. To me, someone could be enlightened or awakened and then what is obvious to them isn’t obvious to someone else as a possibility. How do you know for sure? It could be bad, it could be that he is teaching something. You don’t know… but, you are defending yourself. Which may be wise. No teacher swings a batting average of 100%. How do we separate the noise from the signal? The useful insights from the Leo ego?

Haha, yeah he was struggling to integrate that trip. Embarrassing, but I think he has since admitted this wrong.

Do you guys ever put yourself in his shoes dealing with everyone on this forum? What he said isn’t bad. You are looking for things to demonize him 😄. But yeah, who knows. I’m enjoying all this.

@Carl-Richard Okay, so not Actualized teachings right? Leo has a crass, asshole like personality. He is highly disagreeable. Anyone who has been around him long enough knows this. This idea a spiritual teacher needs to make you feel good all the time I think is false. Vernon Howard taught me that.

@Carl-Richard Doomsday ideations? I’ve not come accross this here. Where is that from?