remember

not everything is the way it seems to be. you can not get into it as you are already it. saying something is unspiritual is also a spirit. french called it esprit it was in fashion a long time until fashion made a brand out of it, and talking down onto something we don’t understand makes us just seem ignorant to the ones who know better. it‘s an attitude, you can culture that

that’s a really interesting view - notice how this is about how energy is directed in both spiritual systems. it works as long as you talk about the individual. bring it into a more dynamic setting, include group ego, and you get to the point where most people above blue get wondering, if that might still be correct. if they are taking spiral dynamics as a map. spiral dynamics in some sense brings this together again. if you integrate this into a more dynamic vision. vertical vs horizontal is def one aspect of western psychology which sometimes is not taken into account enough in psychological science (this is possibly so because of political reasons) - even though you could also say: parts of asia are more blue=more vertical and western society is more orange=vertical+horizontal and green=more horizontal and then in second tier that gets mixed up all again.

what makes you think that? why do you think spirituality is vertical? did you ever question the spirituality you were indoctrinated into? naturally we all might have the tendency to look up to someone in that sense there is always someone above us, in fact as long as you can see how above the person below you is, verticality should not be a spiritual problem. verticality and horizontality are phenomena as content of psychology and spirituality, and verticality and horizontality can also be structures of both - there is no reason to say one is like this and the other is like that. the attempt of psychology to find a scientific approach of course tries to make psychology more horizontal but ask @Serotoninluv if scientific psychology is horizontal and you‘ll probably get a „no“. what makes all horizontal psychology horizontal is spirituality, what makes all vertical spirituality vertical is its psychology

@Vipassana thank you for the manuka reminder, it’s unbelievable expensive, but i‘ll give it a try for a problem i‘m stuck on. the sweetest thread in the forum is this for you guys the same? do the bees always show up when you need them?

@Llight again your controll unit who decided on that. realize where your third eye is at and then we can talk about who is controlling whom and why.

@Llight yep and i tried to tell you to observe „them“ and find out about your control unit and how your controll unit seems to see your emotions as some kind of external threat.

@Llight yes thoughts have power. but why talking about their power while you could have a direct experience of them? it’s because you don’t want to leave the cage, you already got used to it, you don’t want to explore, the cage fits you perfectly fine.

@Llight emotions, did you observe them well? then who is the observer? who is the emotion? sit down and meditate.

@Llight there is nothing beyond emotions - you are failing to see that. your wish to controll emotions makes you overlook that you can’t even define what you are. there is a reason why it’s not good to get stuck in a constant loop between impuls and will to dominate.

@Llight when the enslavement of the impulse for dominance vanishes you enter the realm of desire for dominance and control of dominance. the fear of dominance from impuls makes you fear emotions and following that feeling of fear you try to controll everything from above - until everything is structured the way you want it to be, there is no impuls anymore nor is there freedom to think as the cage you build does not have a door - a dream can’t fly from where you describe you are.

@Johnny5 ? that probably is addressed to everyone - especially yourself. the magic thing to understand is: it’s not a drama it’s a tragic-comedy.

i’m not cought up in the dmc or in trump - i’m cought up in thuringia elections, i guess i’m just seeing it through pretty biased glasses. it’s not a one figure phenomenon - but of course you could say there is some synchronicity. i’m just watching phenomenas playing out, it will probably lead to a prediction at one point but i also don’t want to paint the devil at the wall - i’m just realizing how these things play out, because there are always devils in the game. and i was not sure if i wanted to talk about it here... because it is another situation, and it’s kind of frustrating, too. the only way out of this is getting more convinced about how the democrats can and would really win against trump and what he stands for - i’m not sure but heroes usually are people who have the guts for a change, villains are already having those guts - that’s in a sense even what brought trump into office, being different from what others did before him. but you see that’s all pretty biased because my country at the moment has to face a political shock.

it’s really much more complicated than all of you might think. and there might be much more trump in all of this than expected. but it might or might not be anyone involved in the disfunctioning of the app. it’s just the hardliners who would have voted for biden. it’s intelligent indeed - but do or don’t they want to win against trump? i always ask myself who is most likely to win - in the us it’s usually the most interesting candidate. but you can shuffle votes really easily from a to b, voting is a strategy game. people think about who they vote for in advance like in chess, you already predict as many scenarios as possible. in a sense the app problem even makes the situation more transparent. i think it’s pretty low of the democratic conservatives and might even not work out. i guess everyone should maybe think about if they would prefer another trump legislation, using the same methods as right wingers use? (i’m referring to a local political phenomenon taking place in germany right now in the elections of one of the federal states - one of the most important factors is getting clear about what the coalitions want as a whole, there are parties inside of parties... it would confuse anybody)

if you guys think about sugar replacement, also consider coconut sugar as it has a lot of amino acids and is even more or similar healthy than jaggery. both are palm sugars! ahaaaa there is a syrup made out of the same fruit as jaggery which is called honey in sri lanka - i suppose in india, too. also if you buy honey think of the bees...and how they might be treated, how much are they allowed to keep and so on. i guess what sadhguru really is talking about is a spiritual honey, you will not get that from another bee - you only get that from being the bee. a spoon full of sugar... spinning around in my head all day.

@Derek White the inner impulse for dominance and slightly choleric outbreaks are all signs of red - a highschool bully bullying is always red. you could always ask how much red is in orange or how much yellow potential. a person always has a mixture of colours and very seldomly is always at home in their dominant spiral stage. stage red usually is ego outbreaks at its finest, if you would say trump twittering is the way he uses his pen... well ?

@Matt23 well gay and conservative is not really excluding each other. that is if a gay person was indoctrinated by blue maybe in very loving way - it’s not that the fact that someone is gay changes their upbringing or love for what they learned to love in their family home. gay men are sometimes very correct and love blue things as they love aspects of structure and order and sophistication about it, or they just love the indoctrination part and giving authority to people they worship - that can also sometimes mean that a gay person is conservative or even a right winger. blue these days is sometimes openminded for exceptions especially if they still conform and support the organisation/ideals blue is bound to, it mimikris openmindedness. of course this is not all on buttigiegs shoulders, it’s a phenomenon that especially showed in more conservative parties - german afd has a female member example where life and ideology are so counterintuitive to each other that it’s a mystery how exactly that works. maybe because it’s more accepted for women in that party. it works exactly the same way as it works for a person from the left to be preoccupied about what being gay means or putting the fact that someone is gay for or against what people then are politically doing. political correctness is not a visa to be politically incorrect...you see where the fact that he is gay can lead to in a seemingly logical argumentation?

guys i don’t want to confuse you but sadhguru probably talked about jaggery.

@Chumbimba well that’s not completely true - they say the way is the goal - and there is a reason why pilgrimages always have a part you must walk with your own feet. i doubt that taking a plane to santiago de compostella is the same as taking a pilgrimage... but well it’s all a matter of interpretation. a pilgrimage from arizona to texas by foot is probably still another experience than taking jacobs path. although if you would take a spiritual travel to the descendants of the great spirit - the path would not be much different. only the manifestation of what was or is holy would be.

that sounds very wise! if we realize we build an altar for it and replace what we learn on the path with worshipping what we think has brought us there, we deny who then really brings us anywhere, and what then really makes the difference. i struggled with the glorification and myth of party drugs or enlightenment drugs the longest. although i see that healing or spirituality altering techniques must always be seen from the bias of the person who uses them, what can be healing for one might be poison to another one. i see the same for, structure or rules or harsh situations, it always depends on holding a balance and really understanding what we use certain techniques for. i‘m not sure if i would use toilet paper to write a letter on it. it’s not really working that well for that kind of intention - even though in a certain occasion if there would not be anything else, of course together with a softer pen it could work - in some sense we always also need to know how to use a technology. although if there is no other option we might be happy to use whatever tool works in a certain circumstance. so psychedelics from a certain perspective really might seem much much worse than they are.

overall they always got/get something right, if they wouldn’t, it wouldn’t be so difficult to crack your mind upon them. if hitler wouldn’t have gotten anything right he wouldn’t have been in power to begin with. the problem is not that they don’t get anything right, the problem is the last twist to it - which makes all of it not right. it’s like the poisoned apple - would you eat it just because it’s truely an apple?

that’s true and it is not. also your signature is pointing towards both sides of infinity. remember, the devil is a squirrel. if the squirrel would give up on searching for nuts it would probably still be a rat. we often think we can explain the general through the exceptional but don’t realize that all the exceptional can explain is the exceptional. even though that’s exactly what is making it so special and beautiful, it is also showing how unexceptional the general is. or you could also say: even a blind nut sometimes finds a squirrel.

when i was 16 i was infatuated with men in their 40 or thirties sometimes. i don’t think it’s about hitting on anyone or even really dating. it’s more about the thrill of the situation and being admired or getting the other person sexually react in a more subtle sublime way. it’s still romantic and interesting also exactly because it’s not allowed. this romantic infatuation/flirting with older (male) brought me to loving lyrics at some point it brought others to be the president of france. i think an attentive, intelligent wake way is always the best to talk to older females. or not talking at all, flirting from afar in a non verbal way can be pretty attractive. i think it’s def a gray area - and i think there is def a difference between a romantic conversation with some flying sparks and a goal oriented pick up plan - i guess most women would still prefer the first.

what if we can only decide by grabbing the brazen bull by the balls or being tortured within? i don’t want to elaborate on why it has to be a roman one, although there are probably some connections to italy, in a very loose symbolic connection.

@Ya know who says you can’t be alpha anymore the moment you accept being gay? because being alpha for a lot of male means not being gay? and the ones who really count in their opinion of you might be exactly males? most gay people i know wait the longest until they tell their parents or at least their dads because of cause the acceptance of our parents is one of the important factors to somehow accept ourselves (gay, non gay) - it has been like that for several years since birth and untangling from family norms/hierarchies is really tricky as they sometimes even play out even years and years after untangling. that’s actually something women often find out through motherhood or work with children as the moment you become a parent/care taker you realize the mechanisms at work in you - that’s not only happening in parent child dynamics but also in couple dynamics. and most of all it’s a wound in self esteem if there is a factor of personality that might never be fully accepted by one of your parents. i guess especially if the father is unforgiving or only ok if you turn out a certain way it’s difficult, because how could you become yourself entirely if part of you does not accept you the way you are?

@Ya know i guess god didn’t plan completely on monogamy at first - the plan was also not to create such a huge population - as it turns out the plan was small groups and procreation was not meant to be only between men and women but also a form of socializing and sharing love. so the plan was also to create people who were able to see love from a different perspective. you can still love women, that’s one of the fun part, you just do it differently and you can really love the whole spectrum - but of course you are probably selective in other aspects more then.