Gidiot

Survival doesn’t have to be hard and brutal, I feel like that gets tossed around as a concept which is kind of like a cop out to justify all your egoic notions or why you need to do certain actions like choose a mate or make money, but really in 2022 in america or most first world nations, there is nothing saying survival and dating has to be hard, I agree OP that it’s not the brutality of survival why people are poor it’s the hoarding greed/ pursuit of happiness greatness good live which causes people to overlook to the suffering of their fellow man, you can’t just shrug your shoulders and say that’s nature because there is literally no evidence for your claim. Humans could cure poverty and hunger tomorrow, we have the resources it’s a proven fact, and people could lighten up and see each other for their being and attitude and amount of compassion/love instead of perceived attractiveness based on “biological survival instincts” and material wealth. it just requires a change in mindset, I’m not saying that any girl or any guy is owed to someone else… people should have absolute freedom and autonomy to choose their significant other or date or friend or whatever, but it isn’t a brutal hard and cold reality which can only be done effectively if you master attraction, that’s of course one way of doing it, but don’t act like it’s the only way even if it’s the most optimal for the current time period of how society is structured. And it’s kind of gaslighting to say “ well make yourself attractive” as if it’s something nature and life is explicitly saying, “attractive” qualities is to relative to pin down even if there is overlap between people. There is more than one way to skin a cat and I guess I blame humanity for their brutal methods and rationalization of shallow attitudes just as much as I blame myself for not caring about this stuff. I guess my final point is there is no way to guarantee a guy will get a fufilling life by conforming to “brutal survival/dating game”. If you think my argument is bullshit than what do we do about all the perceived “ugly people” there is no fool proof solution to intimacy/love/truth in relationships and humanity could be making the process a whole lot easier, just like nature, some things are very harmonious when observed and other very brutal, humanity has the capacity to make dating into a very harmonious, playful and cruelty/suffer free experience. and people come with all different capacities and abilities to actualize “attractiveness” its equally his fault for not conforming as it is the system for not accommodating if you think about it, it’s more complex than just an individual issue.

its so great not needing another human to feel worthy of life dont expect to change women or men let them be as ignorant as possible and naturally learn from their mistakes or not. I personally find it terrible when someone puts expectations on you before they even know you. i actually think i could date an unattractive person and go against my biology quite easily but im much different than the average person, i couldnt care less about family children, te expectation of providing for someone( if i provided for someone which is a natural byproduct of love, it would be spontaneous and in my own way, not out of some silly expectation. ) or what material things they could provide for me. i care about the intimacy and love, there is truth to making yourself an "attractive man" of course, but theres also much truth to not giving a shit and not playing the dating game and allowing for the universe to surprise you. OP just compromise with women or be brave enough to not settle for anything less than someone who can put all those expectations aside, this is the path im on.

im more of a lurker, rarely say anything unless it excites me

@Razard86 mostly the monotony the struggle, the void, the seeking energy as they call in in neo advaita, or karma or whatever, I dislike being limited and resist “my little egoic experience” there’s certainly a beauty to this life but the duality is annoying as all heck. I truly don’t think I need to do anything to get to anywhere and yet it’s almost like I’m being unconsciously dragged along. I’m not good at the game, and don’t see the point in mastering it, because I’m still a human with limitations and I wish there was an option to play a different one

People would stop caring about the economy if their survival needs were met. And that’s all I have to say really, the vast majority only care about this crap because it effects their survival $2 more dollars here and there for gas. Like it’s such a huge issue, I say undermine the whole worry about the economy. And I don’t know the reality, but human greed is a huge problem so I’m going to probably blame that.

Well said razard. I’m starting to get fed up with my creation though.

I feel the same way Kael, but I just have to assume it what is it and it’s out of my understanding in this limited form, I don’t know shit and no practice is going to help me from my experience. Psychedelics could but I have medical reasons preventing me from taking them.

@Thought Art yes the hamster wheel must turn and you must like it. Whether it’s important or valuable is useless haha what a joke, humanity is doomed

The great thing to sacrifice is your justification to work for your survival

I mean I like hearing the excesses of the left because it keeps me honest but I have real hard time accepting people needing to be denied their survival for “growth” if we can otherwise help them survive. Please help me to understand

agreed, I love challenging my own worldview, but it did leave me with a question. valid criticism is that we are getting soft as a society with all our creature comforts and survival aint as cutthroat as it used to be. Leo says that we shouldn't coddle people and should make sure there is a challenge in life, but what does this entail? obviously, I highly respect the Amish, but society can't go back to those times, the toothpaste is out of the tube. I think Leo strawmans a bit, not that many people are content with just sitting on the couch all day watching NetFlix nor do I think that having an "easier" society will make this. there is an inert human drive to accomplish things, I just think we have to reimagine how society looks, its stupid to think that we will always be competing as society evolves and yes while there won't be people who create the same amount of value as others, we can't all be Elon musk or Jeff Bezos, so in that case, I think making survival easier will be good. I don't think reality is dumb enough anyway, it has a trickster element to it, once we solve the problem of a hard survival life with creature comforts Ubi, etc, there will be other problems we don't even know that will come up. just wanted to hear your thoughts. There will always be a challenge to life, it's just a matter of the degree of how much challenge "the majority" of people should or could tolerate. I do get a bit triggered by the advent that we should not try to make life easier because that will eliminate growth, i think that if society ever got to a point where people en masse were complaining that life is too easy and life is boring and unchallenging then that would be a good time to address this notion, but the reality is that there is a shit ton of people through no fault of their own on the streets or maybe people who cant blossom into a fully-fledged human being without assistance by a compassionate hand whether it be governmental or individual. I think that is one of my critiques of Leo's point, if everyone is challenged and struggling with basic survival and this is good, to me it makes for a much worse society than could be actualized when basic survival is met within reason for everyone. I mean take me for example, i am disabled and i get disability money, but by no means is the challenge of life over. I still struggle to master emotions, being compassionate, and understanding reality, integrating my shadow, seeing reality as it is and not how I want it to be and becoming more educated, I'm definitely not ambitious materially but there are many things i want to try and luckily not having to worry and slave at a 9-5 has given me that freedom. I think maximizing human autonomy and our freedom to spend our time in whichever way we please is more important than forcing people to struggle for their survival. i mean you could always adopt an ancient culture way of putting people through vision quests or rights of passage ( fasting, pilgrimage, boy scout bear Grylls type shit) to teach them the value of struggle, but i don't think in a civilized society of the future it should be a default reality for people. In the other thread Leo you talked about how black people being systemically enslaved and oppressed for 250 years as a group ruins their IQ and other societal factors, to a way lesser degree imagine what this wage slavery and paycheck-to-paycheck living is doing to people, and we shouldn't try to alleviate that? and if you disagree to what extent is healthy/unhealthy? plus there is always the truth that for the most beautiful society/garden you cant have all of the same flowers doing the same shit, some people are going to contribute little to nothing of "use" and just look pretty like mystics, poets, artists, (flowers), some are going to be vegetables and have some use and value to nearly everyone, sure also there will be weeds but those will hopefully be in the minority, im not dumb enough to think this garden couldnt be overrun by weeds but i just think more plants can grow in well tended to environment. i might be spewing bullshit but to me this is my perspective that I've absorbed. we gotta balance our notions of challenge and growth with the reality of the person's ability to respond to it. i think over a mass scale the solution is to help out. and if you think this is all a big cope because i don't want to provide value to society, my answer would be I probably agree. i am so far outside the norm of a typical human being that i basically believe i cant functionally contribute in the way most people want me to. so my pseudo-life purpose is for advocating for an easier survival for all, we do live in the dark ages and yes I am naive for expecting change so soon, but if the ideal isn't working together to make things easier and more autonomous for all to actualize a better life than i want no part in this game, reality is better off without this dream character

i mean honestly I dont blame you man, we play these games and to what end, you make up the rules but the apparent ego is powerless, and then we are supposed to enjoy it, i mean dont get me wrong there is a beautiful balance to life, but doesnt mean i have to/like/love all the terrible shit and the only way out is a psychedelic? or meditating for a bagillion hours? or a horrificly painful suicide, seems like im a shit designer.

i mean even if you can increase your chances it ain't guaranteed, I did kriya yoga religiously for five years and nothing. i certainly dreamed up a challenging and annoying dream

people should be working 120 hour weeks and never get any rest.

its as if having a low IQ makes you unworthy or lesser of a person or less deserving of life, this is the same problem I have with saying be useful or die, it shouldnt matter your iq level, your performance on tests or ability to create value, as long as youre not hurting anyone you deserve life and to enjoy this dream without being compared and contrasted with others who may or may not do better than you, its so silly, im not saying black people are lower IQ, but if they were, so what? what does it change about reality? should they bow down and kiss the ring of Elon musk and jeff bezos and bill gates, its a joke.

I do love Leo and his wisdom which he freely gives and I freely binge, and I agree with probably 90% of the video... but I definitely don't agree with "be useful or die" and human beings know what value is and what isn't objectively and that free markets are fair and don't have influences and biases projected onto them or that they are the perfect system.

I agree with the "cannot be as wealthy" and obviously how society is structured today should not id have to agree with. But imo an ideal society doesn't leave people out for the wolves whether they are disabled or not. A tier 2 point is that everyone is not going to have the same receptiveness to wage slavery; the grind that is life, and for such people that what to do their own thing in their own way saying "well create value or die" to me is just not very compassionate. Im not asking that those who cannot contribute much value to society get wealthy, im just demanding that they have a right to live too. maybe it sends the wrong signal but imo its just ego. people talk about how those that dont work and expect to live are entitled, but you have to admit that it is entitlement also that fuels the thinking that people should earn more than others providing more value in a made up system anyway. if value was determined by how much women you had sex with than hugh hefner would be the most valuable, to me anything beyond absolute basic survival eating, house, love/sex/compassion is arbitrary and how good or terrible you are means nothing to me. why should your opinion matter more? being a conscious human being by your definition is an absurdity because so much of humanity is stage blue, this cutthroat every man for himself way of thinking is holding us back imo.

I agree with 99% of what you say Leo, but I think its a bad take to say that someone whos unproductive and "useless" doesn't generate collective value deserves to die. There is no explicit goal to life obviously, your life purpose doesnt need to involve making money or "creating value" it simply could be to help maximize love in your own way. if society says those types of people deserve to die, to me that isnt a very developed society, is the only reason parents have kids in order for them to maximize value and productivity? or like you say is it out of love? i know not every society should have the resources to meet survival needs for everyone but I if designed society I would value letting people existing whether i get value from them or not. its not my job to judge peoples worth on my benefit, if they arent hurting anyone they should have the right to exist. maybe this is too forward thinking when you still have to compete with other countries and people like a fucking chimp in a capitalist world, but the only way to transition away from that is a society that treats human life with dignity. we all have something to contribute in this life, and not everyone should be forced into wage slavery or being a business owner, a mystic is just as viable as a ceo in my eyes its clear to me that you need lazy people in life too. I mean thats how god planned it. if everyone was highly creative, successful, and productive this world would probably be a mess. people need to be able to go their own way with dignity.

We humans think we are so clever with our theories of value and money systems but how come nature doesn’t struggle with making a living and greed? If this money system is so perfect how is there a possibility of inflation and recessions shortages and debt wage slavery, I don’t think there is a good answer. But I would suggest maybe a system which makes it illegal to save too much money if there is a limited amount oin circulation. That’s a start, and also getting rid of cash altogether. Fuck social credits, give people there basic needs if you can and then allocate resources based on conscious thought and creativity. Take the game out of money, make it more neutral, less of a symbol of power status and intelligence and more of a symbol of a resource. But hey I don’t know shit I’m just a useless hippy with no real world value and mad at the system because I can’t make money doing what I enjoy, so I’m doomed to die. Great system eh?

A society that doesn’t let people do what they want and enjoy (as long as they aren’t hurting or exploiting people), is no free society. And if they want the right to vote, and a say in who runs a country they have a stake in, who’s to take it away from them, have these leaders demonstrated that they are so high and might and right to govern, I certainly don’t think so. The average commoner isn’t as conscious as an elite but that doesn’t mean the elite has the right to rule over them, that’s called tyranny. At least democracy is trying something that a restricted or unelected government can’t and that is giving a voice to those who have to deal with the consequences of whatever happens. It may be corrupted but I just don’t see how giving power to “experts” will save us. The logical solution isn’t always the right one having said that I’d prefer those with knowledge and consciousness and compassion vote and to have conscious leaders in positions of power, but to take someone’s vote away is to render him powerless. You have to take the bad with the good. There’s no such thing as a perfect democracy, because if it was perfect everyone would agree, there’s only a functioning one or a non functioning one. Unfortunately many people just want to be ruled because it’s easy for them to be a slave, well I say I don’t want to be live in society as a slave and maybe I will leave society because like you said, if the only thing motivating people to do “hard dirty work” is material goods and wages to survive even though they hate it, and they aren’t paid well or ensured survival for helping society then we truly live in the dark ages. It’s a bleak world and from my perspective it’s hard to feel like you’re succeeding in this world even if your party wins, but I would feel even worse with an appointed council or restricted vote

useless is a very relative term - some of the greatest things in life are useless

Beige

Ashtavakra Gita is a great part of this dream, I listen to it a lot. Love that recording too

It’s hard to care about politics but at the same time I’m lying if I say I don’t want a better “future”, it’s like I’ll play the game to win but if I lose it’s okay, maybe that’s copium but I just want to be able to say I did my part and I don’t want to feel like people are directly making decisions about what I can do with my life, ultimately it’s all meaningless so it doesn’t matter but I guess democracy just feels better, of course if someone like Jesus could be the king of the world that would be great but there is a certain beauty in giving people autonomy even if they suck, which they do, and yes it’s scary that maga idiots and religious fundamentalists and really any type of ideologue can vote and have a say in society, but it’s kind of par for the course, it’s like a compromise really, it’s saying hey, it’s not as bad as if we have an evil dictator, but it’s also not as good as if we have a benevolent monarch, it’s a compromise and it’s mediocre but I’ll take it because I think works for where we are at, ideally everyone would just agree on everything and their would be no need need to vote at all and no government, I’m sort of an anarchist in spirit, I think it’s the ideal, but until people are singing kumbaya and living in peace with one another there needs to be control and order because of selfishness and devilry, you might have a point, if the vast majority of a population of people aren’t educated or care it’s not right for them to rule themselves and give them a vote it’s like giving someone who’s suicidal a gun, but if you always are relying on a monarch it’s not very empowering and it just kind of is a dead end because there is no accountability, whatever the person does is right and they have absolute authority, that seems like a bigger problem to me than just uneducated people potentially being manipulated, I’m open minded so maybe the us could try a monarch, but like aurum said I’m quite sure people would get fed up with it. “No king can rule forever” is a good line it it basically means that there will never be a guarantee that you’ll have a good king forever, so why not be able to vote for your king or president or whatever haha I think a benevolent monarch beats a country where 30% of the people will vote for a demagogue, but I think if even like 50-60% of the people of a country in a democracy were conscious and gave a shit about society and human compassion then that would be better than a monarchy.

@amanen well said, I think neo advaita gets a lot of shit here but one thing they say right is that everything is just an appearance, nothing more nothing less