Ulax

@integral I respect your seeming willingness to reconsider your viewpoints

Haha just my subject!

@integral Sounds like you don't trust that the dude is applying himself much. From what I've seen he seems to apply himself a lot. Also, I understand it can take a while to really integrate a stage and also its important to integrate every stage on the spiral.

@Magnanimous I would say he is self-actualizing, just in what I'd say is a rather limited way. It seems like he is currently fixated at orange, and will necessarily suffer from the limits of that level. So, a lot of his self-actualizing now is seemingly horizontal, i.e. growing his brand. Maybe he's incorporating some blue by virtue of feeling a sense of purpose because he believes he is helping young men in various ways. To my understanding, a major limit of orange is that there is a lot of emotional repression and suppression in that stage. And, so I would imagine that Tate has various maladaptive coping mechanisms for dealing with the effects of that repression and suppression, i.e. having various bouts of depression.

@Julian gabriel I think you could benefit from taking another additional perspective on your situation. So, it seems you have the perspective of your thought, i.e. I have thoughts and their content is centred around wanting world success. I think that is a really positive identification you've made. Now, I'd recommend thinking about why you have the thoughts. You could think about whether the thought is actually just an expression of an unmet need. Maybe you are searching for such success because you unconsciously believe it is the best way to meet a need for significance, which is currently unmet. So, if it is the case that an ambition for worldly success is just a means for meeting the need for significance. Maybe it would make sense to explore whether the are much more reliable ways to meet that need, given your current life situation. Maybe you think about it and think the needs perspective isn't true, or that worldly success is the best means of meeting the need. Maybe you do think that perspective is true. Or come to a completely different conclusion. Either way I think it will likely bring you greater clarity.

@Someone here Sure! I think a journal could be useful. Maybe even a general one where you talk about many different aspects of your life you are trying to actualize. I think that way it can really help you feel a real sense of belongingness and community to this site. It might be that you are meeting those needs in a less conscious way currently and this is impacting your results, without you even realising. Seems like you've done some contemplation too, which I think is really positive. I really like what I see to be your tracking of patterns as well. What I do see is that I think you are making some assumptions. And I thinking questioning them could help you, i.e. how do you know its a chemical addiction, what are the different perspectives on addiction. For example, to my mind, someone like Gabor Mate wouldn't see it as a predominantly chemical addiction but more as a coping mechanism for trauma. Also, I note you said you are lazy. In my opinion, that's important info. If you're lazy, then I say meet yourself where you are at. If you are lazy then find and experiment with techniques and different perspectives for learning how to be more disciplined, or find techniques for overcoming addictions that require less discipline. Otherwise, to my mind, if you are lazy, and you keep picking techniques that require discipline, then you will be in a cycle of not getting results. Also, to my mind, the technique of 'just do it' is also a technique. So, if some folks say something akin to, 'bro you have to get more disciplined, just sit your ass down, and do it', then I say treat that as a technique, try it out and see if it helps. If it helps, keep it. If it doesn't, drop it. And perhaps find a different way of addressing discipline, i.e. addressing unconscious cycle through therapy. And do the same test with that too. Overall, i think getting a growth mindset is key, and effective.

@Gabith ?

@Someone here Hey dude, my perspective is that journaling and contemplating about what the effects of your previous attempts to quit were could be of value to you. Maybe one technique was say 90% unhelpful or even suffering inducing and 10% positive. I'd advise trying to figure out what that the cause of that 10% positive effect was, and then experiment with different ways of applying techniques that deal with that cause. Also, I've just come across a technique called letting go by David Hawkins. If you haven't already, I think it could be worth your trying it out. My understanding is that what you do is you first notice an emotion, secondly you place awareness on it, and thirdly you only take your awareness off the emotions once that emotion has either transformed or gone away. Personally, I also like setting a timer which helps when the emotion seems to not either transforming or going away. Finally, it sounds like you're feeling discouraged about your ability to overcome smoking. In my opinion, you've seemingly been doing a lot of sensible and positive actions with regards to your addiction. You are making posts on here, and seem to be open-minded to experiment with different techniques. In my opinion, every failed technique is another step closer to finding out what will work for you. And, if you're strategic about how you approach the issue, i.e. journaling on the effects of different techniques, and thinking about why certain parts of techniques worked or not, then I think you will be significantly increasing the likelihood that you'll overcome your addiction but also you'll likely be cutting down the time it takes you massively.

@GroovyGuru Here are some of my perspectives. I'd say that watching some comedies that you find funny can help. Consider letting go of any desires, if you have the ability, that you have for comedy to be sophisticated, fart jokes are acceptable hehe. I find 'yes and' to be have been something that helped me in the past. Someone makes a joke and you can, 'yes and' it, and I find it creates this collaborative, jokey dynamic which I find quite fun. Also, I think taking the mindset of making jokes in order to self-amuse, rather than get a reaction, is a helpful and also funner, more freeing approach to take. I.e. I personally find 'step-x' jokes fucking hilarious. So, sometimes I'll call a girl my step-mum during our convo, like maybe she'll say something I find a bit commanding and mother like, and i'll find it funny to say, 'okay step mum' and laugh about it loool. Also, after each interaction with a girl I find it fun to think about something I found funny about the interaction. Found it works better when you have a banter-type friend with you whilst doing it. Finally, when someone teases you, you can agree and affirm. I.e. someone says, 'You think you're so cool don't you', you can reply, 'Ye i'm actually the coolest person in the world. It can actually gets quite stressful sometimes'. I personally really value humor. I think bringing humor into your life in a healthy manner (i.e. not as an avoidance tool, in the place of inner work) can really bring a lot of joy and fun to one's life!

@Gabith I think I understand dude. Sounds like you are feeling some fear and also some courage. I like your mindset.

@Gabith Haha I think I do the same thing quite frequently with various techniques! I'd be curious to hear how things pan out for you dude with your current situation btw. So, feel free to update me on how the situation develops with regards to these folks. I get it might be tough at times to deal with.

@StarStruck I see. What do you think about the non-dual question I asked re the technique?

Hey folks, couple of questions I'd appreciate perspectives on. What spiral stage do people think David Hawkin's letting go technique is? Do you believe you can have awakening/ enlightenment/ non-dual experiences with the technique? Have you done so yourself? Do you use apply the technique to body tensions? I.e. you have a tight back. Thanks in advance

@StarStruck So, in your opinion its a method you can use at any stage to help you move up to the next stage? I don't quite understand what you mean by mechanism of the spiral

@Carl-Richard Damn dude always thought you were an american

@Gabith Hey again dude, had the idea that maybe learning the letting go technique could be of value to you. My thoughts are that you could apply it whilst you grayrock. I personally find when I try to grayrock I can find it quite taxing emotionally, and I think using the letting go technique could help you deal with the emotions that come up, and actually come into a more relaxed place. Plus I think they'll actually bother you less if you do the technique.

@Magnanimous If you prefer to have sex with virgins, and only want to have sex with virgins, that's totally cool in my book. Maybe its worth contemplating on why you want to only have sex with virgins. Maybe its a preference you have or maybe its due to a fear of some kind, and if you overcame that fear your preferences would change.

@Bad_anarchist Nice!

@integral I'd say its to do with attachment style and trauma bonding. To my understanding, certain attachment styles, i.e. disorganised, will actually associate abusive behaviours with love and safety.

Seems like the answer is 122 years and 164 days because, to my knowledge, no human being has ever lived longer than that . I don't think there is an age limit. Maybe your preferences will change as you age tho.

@Superfluo I'd be curious to hear why you think they are stage yellow?

@Heart of Space You think it has racial bias?

@Gabith Also I'm reading a boook called Never Split the difference by Chris Voss atm. I understand it to be about negotiating under high pressure. I think it could also be of value to you in your current situation as well.

@Gabith All g dude.

@Gabith Hey dude, sounds to me like you're feeling quite distressed over this situation and how it might turn out for you. Its my understanding to that you are confused about whether you're intuition about them is correct. I personally would recommend trusting your intuition in this situation. To my understanding, its possible that you dealing with some folks who would likely fit the criteria for a cluster b personality disorders. To my mind, there are experts who have studied this demographic of people. I'd say one of them is someone called, 'Doctor Ramani'. https://www.youtube.com/c/DoctorRamani I would particularly recommend watching her video on 'Grayrocking', which is a technique for dealing with this demographic of people. I also believe she has videos on various other techniques . I think it may well be worth your watching some of this series of Ramani's too: https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PL3QtnfcMTMhEfRXN-Kk2vndn89nBZxKUj