Beginner Mind

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  1. Posted · Edited by Beginner Mind

    1 hour ago, Consilience said:

    There’s nothing to do is synonymous with there’s everything to do. Each is perfect. Each is not the Absolute and thus both are illusory in some way shape or form.

    Bingo.  If you are moved to make a difference in the world, then that's a perfectly appropriate thing to do.  If you're inclined to hang back and watch all this messiness unfold, that's a perfect expression as well.

    The author isn't saying that making a difference in the world is wrong, but rather, he's just saying that such efforts have nothing to do with spirituality/awakening.  It's perfectly fine to make a positive difference in the world...  Just don't spiritualize it.

    I highly recommend "Perfect Brilliant Stillness" for those who haven't read it.  Best book on non-duality I've encountered.

  3. Posted · Edited by Beginner Mind

    I don't mean to step on anyone's toes with this post, but I've been reading "Perfect Brilliant Stillness" by David Carse and this quote made me think of the Actualized.org community:

    "In spiritual circles there is great value placed on personal growth, personal improvement, becoming a better person, becoming more aware, teaching others how to become better, making the world a better and more enlightened place. The hope for a better future, the belief in an upward spiritual evolution that carries the whole race with it, is like the belief that there is something wrong and something that needs to be done. It seems hard-wired into the human mechanism but is in fact the device by which the 'divine hypnosis' operates, keeping the dream characters motivated and occupied in the dream. This belief is an illusion, and it is what creates suffering.

    In Truth, in the Absolute, in All That Is, there is no evolution, no progress, no becoming better, no becoming. All is as it is. The idea that the world is in bad shape and that the present point in history is pivotal and that something has to be done, is as old as the human mind; it has always seemed thus, at every point in 'human history.'  In truth everything is in perfect balance; the world never gets better and never gets worse, although to the apparent individual instruments it may seem that it does."

    Again, no disrespect intended to Leo or anyone else, but I just thought I'd offer this quote as an alternative perspective to the one that is generally espoused here.

  8. Posted

    8 minutes ago, Serotoninluv said:

    Also consider: no-doer means no “I”. If there is no-doer, there is no “me” to act as a doer.

    If there is no-doer, how can I sit on my couch and do nothing? That would require a doer! There is no longer a “me”, doing or not doing anything. That gets transcended/removed. There is simply happenings without a “me” taking ownership of anything.

    Fun stuff ? 

    I don't doubt what you're saying, but I'm not quite there yet.  To me, there's definitely still a "me" here.  It's possible that my current focus on non-doership is more of a temporary phase, a necessary step along the staircase to the realization of no-self.  Who knows?  But for now, I'm satisfied with realizing I'm not the doer. :)

  9. Posted

    21 minutes ago, Serotoninluv said:

    @Beginner Mind I think this is one of the most important realizations. The illusion of personal choice causes an immense amount of stress and turmoil in the mind and body. The realization of no-doership can relieve a of of suffering. Yet, absence of responsibility does not mean that I am not responsible. I see a lot of people partially realize no-doer and then hold the belief “I am not responsible”. That is only a half truth.

    Yes, there is the danger of someone using this teaching as an excuse to act unconsciously.  One might say, "I'm not the doer, therefore I can pick up a machine gun and kill a bunch of people."  But, the question is, is such action truly in your nature?  Is it really in your nature to grab a gun and murder someone?  Chances are, probably not.

    A less extreme example would be someone who hears this teaching and says, "I'm not the doer, therefore I'm going to just sit on my couch and do nothing for the rest of my life."  But, again, is it really in your nature to do that?  Chances are, there are other inclinations you have.  Goals and desires that you will find yourself pursuing according to your nature. 

    At the end of the day, all we have to do is follow our natural inclinations, while realizing that those inclinations are actually the will of God...  And not our doing.

  10. Posted

    3 hours ago, Ones said:

    Yes. The energies of the separate self can be very strong even after we realise its unreality though. That is my experience at least. As many teachers say: the journey starts after we wake up. It seems like true progress only happens after awakening, and we slowly begin to identify with "awareness" instead of the body/mind. 

    Did non-doership dawn on you prior to waking up, or was the realization a byproduct of waking up?

  11. Posted

    2 hours ago, bensenbiz said:

    On this topic I like a talk from Alan Watts:

     

    Legend.

    2 hours ago, Ones said:

    Because of the belief that we are the body.

    Yes.  The belief in being the body brings with it the belief that we are in control of the body's functioning.  Perhaps cultivating the witnessing position is the remedy for this?

    1 hour ago, Truth Addict said:

    Addiction.

    True.  The conditioning of being the doer has been drilled into us from a very early age.  Breaking free of that conditioning is not easy.

    1 hour ago, WelcometoReality said:

    @Beginner Mind A healthy ego believes in it's ability to change the world around it. An unhealthy ego believes it can't and that it is a victim of circumstances.

    An ego that realizes its powerlessness doesn't necessarily have to fall into a victim mentality.  There can be the understanding that, "I am not the doer, but nonetheless I must act out the natural inclinations of this body-mind organism."

    1 hour ago, Apparition of Jack said:

    This ties in nicely with another concept:

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wu_wei

    Indeed.  There was an author by the name of Wei Wu Wei who wrote about non-doership quite a bit, heavily influencing the teachings of Ramesh Balsekar who came later.

    1 hour ago, SoonHei said:

    @Beginner Mind like flying a kite high in the sky

    when the kite is in the sky, it might this it is doing all the actions. moving/swaying in the wind

     

    as you bring the kite back down and reel it back in. the kite sees it was a puppet and the real do-er was the kite flyer.

     

    in the freedom of non-doership, there also comes the true freedom of doing whatever you like!

    once you know as your true place as the kite flyer, you can fly the kite as high as you like! 

    Yes.  The question might arise, "If I am not the doer, then how do I live my life?"  The answer is, simply do whatever it is that you feel you should do.  Follow your natural inclinations.

  12. Posted

    We have all lived our lives with the mistaken belief that we are in control of our actions.  But over the centuries, the great sages have told us that we are in fact not responsible for our actions. 

    In the Bhagavad Gita, Krishna says: "The self, deluded by egoism, thinketh: 'I am the doer.'"

    Ramana Maharshi said: "The present difficulty is that man thinks he is the doer.  But it is a mistake.  It is the higher power which does everything and man is only a tool."

    Even Leo has mentioned that we are not the doers in his video, "Enlightenment Experience Explanation & Key Lessons".

    There is tremendous freedom available in realizing that you are not the doer.  With this realization comes the dropping away of guilt for so-called mistakes, for you see that your "mistakes" were not your doing.  Feelings of hatred towards others dissolve as well, as you see that no one has really ever done anything harmful to you.  As Ramesh Balsekar said: "Events happen.  Nobody does anything.  All things happen exactly as they are supposed to happen, according to the will of God."

    The heart is beating by itself, hair is growing by itself, even thoughts are appearing by themselves.  From head to toe, it is obvious that we are not the doers.  So, why is it that we cling to this false sense of doership?

  15. Posted

    39 minutes ago, winterknight said:

    I think you asked and I answered this above, but in a nutshell if the realization is merely verbal it’s not enough. If the realization is more than merely verbal, then sure, but by the same token such a realization goes beyond all concepts, including non-doership.

    My bad, I must've missed that post.  Thanks for your answer.

  19. Posted

    12 minutes ago, Mikael89 said:

    ACIM is a nightmare to read. Especially to a not native english speaker like me. 

    The author(s) did a great job on making every sentence super complicated and difficult to read and understand.

    I usually have to read every sentence a million times, and often I still don't understand what it's trying to say.

    But there are other people who like the book.

    Your English is excellent for a non-native speaker.

    And I'm not surprised that you don't like the Course.  After all, it's all about forgiveness and love, your most hated topic. ;)

  21. Posted

    I was introduced to it through the work of Gary Renard.  There's a lot of wisdom to be found in the Course, but I can't take it seriously as a legit path because some of the ideas in it are just too difficult to believe.  For example, the Course suggests that the universe was created as a result of unconscious guilt that we feel for having separated ourselves from God.  This just seems silly to me.  Also, according to Gary Renard, Jesus didn't feel any pain on the cross.  Like, literally, zero physical suffering.  That's just too difficult for me to believe.

  22. Posted

    This may have been posted already but it's a pretty good one:

    A Zen master visiting New York City goes up to a hot dog vendor and says, "Make me one with everything."
    The hot dog vendor fixes a hot dog and hands it to the Zen master, who pays with a $20 bill.
    The vendor puts the bill in the cash box and closes it. "Excuse me, but where’s my change?" asks the Zen master.
    The vendor responds, "Change must come from within."

  23. Posted · Edited by Beginner Mind

    7 hours ago, Ibn Sina said:

    I think responsibility is an illusion. There are just too many variables that influences what we do. I believe in Spinoza's determinism. We do what we do because of x number of reasons of which we may have no idea and we may think it may look like we may be doing it but in reality we have no control, we are just a series of impulses. To prove this all we have to do is follow the reasons behind our action, and we will see that there is an outside cause.

    The mentally ill person acts in a way that is off the normal standard human behavior, whereas normal people act  in the normal way, but both are acting spontaneously.

    Responsibility implies there is someone who is a doer, there is a decision maker, but isn't the decision maker influenced from outside? The decision maker himself is influenced by many many factors which influences  his decision.  Micho Kaku in a bigthink vid said that Einstein said- Criminals are fated to commit crime, they are not responsible because from birth and their environment their fate has been sealed, but still they should be put in jail.

     

    Agreed.  I like the way Ramesh Balsekar expressed it: Everyone acts according to their genes and conditioning (neither of which we have any control over).

  24. Posted

    8 minutes ago, Shaun said:

    You dreamt up your whole life. Your entire family is an illusion and you will experience EVERYTHING including plane crashes, etc. You are totally alone and nobody can save you.

    If that sounds good to you, then please PM me ASAP so that I can arrange for whatever you are smoking to be sent out to me first class post.

    I guess I'm just wondering why it creates such a strong reaction from you?  Let Leo be Leo.  You are free to believe what you want.  Where's the problem?