Bill W

I don't know the Sedona method but have heard of it. I tried to get into some Lester Levinson but not too sure of it right now. I think Sedona method might be modelled on some of his stuff. My own view based on my current understanding and experience is that for me, letting go of troublesome emotions and feelings gets stalled without some cognitive work too. Unless monkey mind is tamed or there is an advanced level of detachment from thoughts, my thoughts get in the way of letting go of my emotions. This is where the David Hawkins book has really helped me out. If I read him correct, he argues that it's pissing in the wind trying to surrender ego dominated perspectives and feelings if you don't accurately identify the pay off's you get from ego running wild. You have to surrender the pay off's first. It makes sense to me. The Osho book I reviewed on here also helps with this. As does the work of Don Miguel Ruiz. I'm really in letting go mode. I'm trying to stop myself being in 'acquire' mode and just keep the focus on surrendering. I have a shit load of crap that needs to be jettisoned to make room for the good stuff. Or... the good stuff is all there already but buried in the shit. Either way, without letting go, nothing good will happen for me.

There is a bible for children. I think it's called the message. I struggle with the King James version so I use a different one. There are some good websites that if you type in the verse it will give you the same message but in easier to understand English language. These sites are good as they link to different Bible translations so you can end up seeing just how 'watered down'the translation is from the King James version. It's good to compare in case you feel a verse has been translated so much that it's lost it's original meaning.

I'm so new to the Bible I am not even sure if this post is what you are looking for. I don't know if these things were said by Jesus or they were said by people who either (a) knew Jesus or (b) are generally passing on his message. I'm at the beginning of my Bible journey and I'm loving it. At the moment I am focusing on how the Bible reflects values to live by, so here are some of my favourite parts from the Bible. Humility James 1:19 My dear brothers and sisters, take note of this: Everyone should be quick to listen, slow to speak and slow to become angry. John 3:30 He must become more important while I become less important. Luke 6:37 Do not judge, and you will not be judged. Do not condemn, and you will not be condemned. Forgive, and you will be forgiven Mark 8:34-35 Then, calling the crowd to join his disciples, he said, “If any of you wants to be my follower, you must give up your own way, take up your cross, and follow me. If you try to hang on to your life, you will lose it. But if you give up your life for my sake and for the sake of the Gospel, you will save it”. Matthew 5:5 Blessed are the meek, for they will inherit the earth. Proverbs 11:12 It is foolish to speak scornfully of others. If you are smart, you will keep quiet. Proverbs 18:12 No one is respected unless he is humble; arrogant people are on the way to ruin. Psalm 4:4 Don’t sin by letting anger control you. Think about it overnight and remain silent. Titus 3:2 Tell them not to speak evil of anyone, but to be peaceful and friendly, and always to show a gentle attitude toward everyone. Compassion Ephesians 4:29 Do not let any unwholesome talk come out of your mouths, but only what is helpful for building others up according to their needs, that it may benefit those who listen. Galatians 6:2 Carry each other's burdens, and in this way you will fulfil the law of Christ. Proverbs 11:24-25 One person gives freely, yet gains even more; another withholds unduly, but comes to poverty. A generous person will prosper; whoever refreshes others will be refreshed. Proverbs 31:8-9 Speak up for those who cannot speak for themselves; ensure justice for those being crushed. Speak up and judge fairly; defend the rights of the poor and needy. Forgiveness Hebrews 8:12 For I will forgive their wickedness and will remember their sins no more. Isaiah 43:25 I—yes, I alone—will blot out your sins for my own sake and will never think of them again. Luke 23:34 Jesus said, "Father, forgive them, for they don't know what they are doing Matthew 5:7 Blessed are the merciful, for they will be shown mercy. Matthew 18: 21-22 Then Peter came to him and asked, “Lord, how often should I forgive someone who sins against me? Seven times?” “No, not seven times,” Jesus replied, “but seventy seven times” Other 1 Corinthians 13:4-7 (Love) Love is patient, love is kind. It does not envy, it does not boast, it is not proud. It does not dishonor others, it is not self-seeking, it is not easily angered, it keeps no record of wrongs. Love does not delight in evil but rejoices with the truth. It always protects, always trusts, always hopes, always perseveres. John 14:27 (Fear) I am leaving you with a gift—peace of mind and heart. And the peace I give is a gift the world cannot give. So don’t be troubled or afraid. Philippians 4:6-9 (Prayer) Don’t worry about anything; instead, pray about everything. Tell God what you need, and thank him for all he has done. Then you will experience God’s peace, which exceeds anything we can understand. His peace will guard your hearts and minds as you live in Christ Jesus. And now, dear brothers and sisters, one final thing. Fix your thoughts on what is true, and honorable, and right, and pure, and lovely, and admirable. Think about things that are excellent and worthy of praise. Keep putting into practice all you learned and received from me—everything you heard from me and saw me doing. Then the God of peace will be with you. Paul’s Thanks for Their Gifts Romans 12:2 (Temptation) Do not conform to the pattern of this world, but be transformed by the renewing of your mind. Then you will be able to test and approve what God's will is--his good, pleasing and perfect will.

I was hoping a thread like this would pop up. Thanks for including me. I'm new to the Bible. All I have is what are my favourite verses and I've barely scratched the service. Catch up tomorrow ?

There is a pandemic on the forum. Apologies if this has been covered before. Does anyone have a theory why we are so Male top heavy? There are a few women bravely flying the flag. Am I being naive in worrying about this? Most of the really bad stuff that happens on this planet is because of man not woman. I just think that it cannot be a good thing to have all these men under one roof. Before anyone asks me to leave in order to reduce the Male cohort by one, I cannot leave. I like it on here if I am serious. Am I the only one who finds it weird that men are giving men advice on how to treat women. Is that not like the blind leading the blind? Half joking here. Tongue in cheek comment. I await the deep actualised.org version of psychoanalysis as to why i have noticed this and think it's an issue.

@DrewNows Makes sense. Got me thinking.... a by product of what? Humility? Love? our general spiritual growth? It does make sense that's its a by product of something, because forgiveness is something that seems so simple, yet rebellion dogs our every step. It is right in front of us, but we cannot get there. I'm working on forgiveness all the time, and mostly failing. The by product of this perhaps? As you were saying.

@integral That's a good one, thank you.

You are right and I was wrong. What I said was false and how you have responded is the truth.

@Psychonaut That's really good thanks for sharing

@jbram2002 Having been and still being in AA this forum is a good place for me further practice humility and open mindedness. I also get to practice giving something and not expecting anything back in return. I can also develop my truth without trying to force feed it to someone else. I'm planning on watching some of Leo's earlier general self help videos at some point. I think there is a few he did that are 30mins long. At the moment I'm not too interested in Leo's current stuff. He is not the reason I am here but that could change, you never know.

Is there any teaching, any book, or any part of the Bible you are finding most helpful right now? Do you feel being on the forum is shedding any light for you? It is for me, I was just curious as to how you are finding it.

That is so beautifully worded, but also so pragmatic.

I'm working on values at the moment. For me, it's easy to embody a value from the comfort of my own home, or when I am out laying in the grass with the sun on my face, or when I am at retreat or similar venue. But then life intrudes. My craziness (ego?) shows itself to a level dependent upon the level of craziness (ego?) I bump into in the outside world. For me, holding myself to my values and demonstrating these values on the "front line" of life is FREEDOM, I can be Viktor Frankl. What do you guys think of my template below? Do you have anything to add, or anything to discuss on open mindedness? I have other values in the style of the below template that I could post down the line if this thread ends up getting any interest. Open mindedness Quote "There is a principle which is a bar against all information, which is proof against all arguments, and which cannot fail to keep a man in everlasting ignorance—that principle is contempt prior to investigation" - Herbert Spencer Definitions, meanings and thinking elements • Willingness to try new things • Willingness to consider new ideas • Reserve judgement until all the relevant facts have been established • Don’t jump to conclusions • Don’t assume • Awareness that every person is a potential teacher • Awareness that every situation could be a learning opportunity • Awareness and reflection on your prejudices Behavioural elements • Be careful with speculation and gossip • Watch out for acting on impulse, if there is time available before you want to act, think about taking advantage of this time • Body language congruent with keeping an open mind • Not jumping straight into defensive or argumentative mode • Admit mistakes and areas for development • Self-correcting of unhelpful or inaccurate judgemental processes and attitudes What you might need to let go of........ Blame, Judgement, Denial, Being Correct, Hypocrisy, Self-Righteousness, Pride, Entitlement, Greed, Selfishness, Intolerance, Wanting To Control, Wanting To Manipulate, Demands, Getting Revenge, Being Defensive. Questions to ask………… Am I sure? Am I stepping outside of not-knowing mind? Have I taken something personally? Are my demands out of touch with reality? What prejudices might I hold about this situation? Have I already made up my mind here, or am I open to a different way?

@Truth Addict For sure, and it took me years, and years, and more years to know what self-honesty is. I'm still learning. Without it, you can misdiagnose every problem you have. In my experience, some people do need support with this. Some will think "self-honesty, yep, I can check that box, it's not a problem. I don't cheat on my wife, I don't cheat on my tax returns, and I never shoplift". Some people genuinely don't know what self-honesty is. It can be a painful place in the early days, reflecting on past behaviour and looking at your own role in past events and current conflict with others. It can be difficult for some to work on self-honesty without a guide, as I think the instinctive survival mode in us can resist it, especially if that person is already at rock bottom. Thanks for the chat on this.

True, although some of the most insane stuff I've seen has come from people who have been on here for ages with massive post counts. I honestly have seen stuff that is like a temporary insanity. Intelligent debate ends up with literally "suck my dick". I actually think it is a form of temporary insanity. I think it's also called am Amygdala hijack? I've not really seen any correlation with post count and wisdom. I know that's not exactly what you are saying, but then again people could argue I might not know wisdom when I see it! But I value emotional self-control over anything else right now. Others have different goals to me, and perhaps they think nothing of screaming and shouting on the forum, and getting defensive if someone doesn't buy into their perspective. Perhaps it's terrifying to contemplate that you've done all this spiritual development, read all these books, watched all these clips, done all this meditation and self-inquiry, and at the end of it you are no more advanced than Joe Bloggs whose three down from you in the grocery store queue, and he has never read a self-development book, or watched a self-development video in his life and doesn't know what meditation is. Sorry OP - What I'm describing above I've seen more from the men on here than women. I don't know the bigger picture reason for this. It was pointed out to me that Leo's style attracts a certain crowd here. I would have thought regardless of what crowd are here, most people would like to not lose their shit on a forum? But that's me being judgmental I guess.

It's a pandemic. An infection. The women on here seem to have antibodies. Leo needs to make a vaccine, before we see more people losing their mind. Some of the threads, when they turn ugly, it's like that beginning scene from the film 28-days later when the monkey bites that person, who then goes nuts and infects all the others, who in turn infect the whole country.

@Flatworld Crusades Great question. The values I am really focusing on trying to convey and actually display are..... Open mindedness, Humility, Compassion, Forgiveness, Gratitude, Honesty and Faith/Courage (I have these two values as completely intertwined). I have other templates for these values. I am a making lists/plans kind of person!!! I like to have a blueprint. I struggle to articulate my beliefs actually. I'd have to be asked specifically by someone for me to stand a chance to answer this.

Thanks for taking an interest. If we embodied all those things ALL the time, we could be in the top 1% of the entire planet in open mindedness! Although saying that makes me sound cocky and narrow minded! I think open mindedness is something most people seem to assume they have. But at the first sign of trouble they may abandon the open mind and close it off to "win" the battle or argument! Thanks for this. Yeh, in terms of keeping things simple, I am quite obsessive and worry about what I might "leave out" that is crucial, so I end up usually putting in too much (be it in writing, or in talking!).

....and preaching his teachings.

With expectations, demands, clinging, attachment etc, I view it as "progress rather than perfection". I have no doubt that the more I drop them, the easier my life will be. In terms of your question, I don't believe (for me anyway), I will ever be free of expectation, and I'm not sure I'd want to be. I'm not sure I need to be free of it completely. However, just in terms of being pragmatic, I am sure that my expectations of life and others fucks me up more than it helps me.

Hi Andrea, Was pleased to see you started a thread. I'm new here and I'm also new to the Bible and am using the Bible and connecting at church to aid my recovery. I've seen some of your posts so I was curious about this thread. I'm also a mental health nurse so I am risking sounding quite ignorant... but what's your angle here? What are we looking at and why? What kind of dialogue is this designed to start? ?

Thanks. Yes, you are right. I don't want these templates to contain more words than what is required, so it's an aim of mine to keep them simple and to the point, so thanks.

Yes. It's my understanding of open mindedness. An instruction manual so to speak. Putting it out there to see if anyone else has anything that I can hijack for my own purposes!

I focus on the breath sometimes at night when I'm in bed. It can help me drift off. But mainly with my meditation practice I either focus on snippets of books I like. Sacred text kind of stuff. It's like contemplation i think. However one of the things that has best helped me quiet my mind is mindfulness meditation. To do this and stay in the present moment I focus more on noise than my breath. The issue with this is that the breath is always there and noise or sound is not guaranteed. So I will intensely focus on any available sound to keep grounded and connected in the moment. This could be traffic, the sounds of weights clunking in the gym, a conversation people are having on the bus (I don't actually listen to their words I focus on the sounds). This has all helped me have a little more control on monkey mind. I find that even when I am not meditating that monkey mind is better. I don't meditate as much as I should. About 10 to 15 mins per day.

@kuma Don Miguel Ruiz. The Fifth Agreement, chapter 4. The whole book is great. All his stuff is. Might suit you and some of your issues. It really helped me.