Bill W

I think you can only edit a post for 48hrs.

Ah! This makes sense now. I remember the thread. Yes this was the post I was referring to. I can see the context of your post now. Not sure I agree with your tactic there but it does reinforce what I've learned from all this (keep an openmind and try to stay in not-knowing mind). Thanks for explaining in a non defensive way.

I need to listen to the whole asshole video. I tried but I need headphones as even with my laptop at full volume I can't really hear you well enough. I listened to a few snippets before I gave up and decided it needs headphones which I don't have available right now. I wanted to share this with you. I've never interacted with you before. I think you can take it as you seem to be working hard on your development and you have a fair bit of support on here. If I didn't think you could take this, or I thought you were overly vulnerable I probably would just remain quiet and leave it alone. It's regards a nasty post you made. I can't even remember the thread or much of the wording, or exactly when it was. It wasn't a post toward me, or even a thread I was involved in (I think). I don't think you post nastiness much, if at all, so I got a feeling you will remember what I'm talking about. You came back onto the thread and made some of kind of apology to the dude I think. I've seen loads of arguments on here and insults flying around, but this comment of yours I recall was nasty, hitting someone well below the belt. He seemed to be okay with it, but that's not the point really. I can't remember if I saw the post before I signed up here or when I was a lurker looking around. The post I saw of yours felt so extreme to me it made me always think of your post every time I saw your username and Avatar on here. All this time I have negatively associated your presence on this forum to that one post you made. Whenever I saw your name on here I thought you were some nasty, bullying internet keyboard warrior. The reason I'm posting this here is that it taught me a lesson about judging someone. I've seen loads of your posts now and you seem much more of a sensitive person than I ever imagined. In fact, I'm pretty sure you would have reflected on your outburst toward this guy. You also have more courage than me in terms of posting these video's and opening yourself up a bit. I respect that. Also, what you did when you unloaded on this dude, I've done stuff like that when I was younger, so I have to realise how hypercritical it was of me to judge you like that. But it honestly did make me think "nasty bastard" every time I saw your name on here. I don't think like that anymore. I owe it to you and I owe it to myself in terms of accountability to make this post. I am not being deliberately vague about your nasty post. I can't remember the specifics, I just know nasty when I see it. I've done it myself!

There's loads I can take from this and I haven't even looked at this colour coded model of self-development. I love the thing about starting with WHY and not the WHAT. Get people on board before you depart from the platform!!!!! I also really like the part about not automatically trying to offer a solution and a FIX. It's easy to jump into solution focused stuff straight off the bat. For some people this is what they want/expect, but not everyone likes this approach. Some need to be disarmed or otherwise engaged before you start offering ideas and solutions. Like you say, some need to be listened to first. People need to vent some times. I also read from your post that it's not about a "one size fits all" response or communication style. Something we say in AA that relates to your bit about picking up your own trash, is to "keep your side of the street clean", sometimes that's all you can do. However, as we know, in life it can be too easy to offer/insist to sweep up someone else's side of the street (under the guise that it's in their best interests), while your side of the stress is a big pile of shit. A kind of "do as I say, not as I do" tactic. I'm also liking the vibe of "concentrate more on what you are doing, rather than what everyone is doing/not doing". So I see advantages in your perspective regardless of all this yellow, green, blue, orange stuff (which I intend to read up as it sounds interesting). Do you have a journal or blog or anything else I can look at?

I like the topic. Anything pragmatic and to do with values I like to read about. I also like to read about things that will benefit those around us and the world and not just our own needs. However, do you mind if I ask for bit more definition of what you mean by survival and what you mean by being? I know it sounds a stupid question but... for example survival could mean just to keep breathing or it could mean much more..... Also what is being? I think this is a term used a lot on this forum, but I am new....

I don't know the Sedona method but have heard of it. I tried to get into some Lester Levinson but not too sure of it right now. I think Sedona method might be modelled on some of his stuff. My own view based on my current understanding and experience is that for me, letting go of troublesome emotions and feelings gets stalled without some cognitive work too. Unless monkey mind is tamed or there is an advanced level of detachment from thoughts, my thoughts get in the way of letting go of my emotions. This is where the David Hawkins book has really helped me out. If I read him correct, he argues that it's pissing in the wind trying to surrender ego dominated perspectives and feelings if you don't accurately identify the pay off's you get from ego running wild. You have to surrender the pay off's first. It makes sense to me. The Osho book I reviewed on here also helps with this. As does the work of Don Miguel Ruiz. I'm really in letting go mode. I'm trying to stop myself being in 'acquire' mode and just keep the focus on surrendering. I have a shit load of crap that needs to be jettisoned to make room for the good stuff. Or... the good stuff is all there already but buried in the shit. Either way, without letting go, nothing good will happen for me.

There is a bible for children. I think it's called the message. I struggle with the King James version so I use a different one. There are some good websites that if you type in the verse it will give you the same message but in easier to understand English language. These sites are good as they link to different Bible translations so you can end up seeing just how 'watered down'the translation is from the King James version. It's good to compare in case you feel a verse has been translated so much that it's lost it's original meaning.

I'm so new to the Bible I am not even sure if this post is what you are looking for. I don't know if these things were said by Jesus or they were said by people who either (a) knew Jesus or (b) are generally passing on his message. I'm at the beginning of my Bible journey and I'm loving it. At the moment I am focusing on how the Bible reflects values to live by, so here are some of my favourite parts from the Bible. Humility James 1:19 My dear brothers and sisters, take note of this: Everyone should be quick to listen, slow to speak and slow to become angry. John 3:30 He must become more important while I become less important. Luke 6:37 Do not judge, and you will not be judged. Do not condemn, and you will not be condemned. Forgive, and you will be forgiven Mark 8:34-35 Then, calling the crowd to join his disciples, he said, “If any of you wants to be my follower, you must give up your own way, take up your cross, and follow me. If you try to hang on to your life, you will lose it. But if you give up your life for my sake and for the sake of the Gospel, you will save it”. Matthew 5:5 Blessed are the meek, for they will inherit the earth. Proverbs 11:12 It is foolish to speak scornfully of others. If you are smart, you will keep quiet. Proverbs 18:12 No one is respected unless he is humble; arrogant people are on the way to ruin. Psalm 4:4 Don’t sin by letting anger control you. Think about it overnight and remain silent. Titus 3:2 Tell them not to speak evil of anyone, but to be peaceful and friendly, and always to show a gentle attitude toward everyone. Compassion Ephesians 4:29 Do not let any unwholesome talk come out of your mouths, but only what is helpful for building others up according to their needs, that it may benefit those who listen. Galatians 6:2 Carry each other's burdens, and in this way you will fulfil the law of Christ. Proverbs 11:24-25 One person gives freely, yet gains even more; another withholds unduly, but comes to poverty. A generous person will prosper; whoever refreshes others will be refreshed. Proverbs 31:8-9 Speak up for those who cannot speak for themselves; ensure justice for those being crushed. Speak up and judge fairly; defend the rights of the poor and needy. Forgiveness Hebrews 8:12 For I will forgive their wickedness and will remember their sins no more. Isaiah 43:25 I—yes, I alone—will blot out your sins for my own sake and will never think of them again. Luke 23:34 Jesus said, "Father, forgive them, for they don't know what they are doing Matthew 5:7 Blessed are the merciful, for they will be shown mercy. Matthew 18: 21-22 Then Peter came to him and asked, “Lord, how often should I forgive someone who sins against me? Seven times?” “No, not seven times,” Jesus replied, “but seventy seven times” Other 1 Corinthians 13:4-7 (Love) Love is patient, love is kind. It does not envy, it does not boast, it is not proud. It does not dishonor others, it is not self-seeking, it is not easily angered, it keeps no record of wrongs. Love does not delight in evil but rejoices with the truth. It always protects, always trusts, always hopes, always perseveres. John 14:27 (Fear) I am leaving you with a gift—peace of mind and heart. And the peace I give is a gift the world cannot give. So don’t be troubled or afraid. Philippians 4:6-9 (Prayer) Don’t worry about anything; instead, pray about everything. Tell God what you need, and thank him for all he has done. Then you will experience God’s peace, which exceeds anything we can understand. His peace will guard your hearts and minds as you live in Christ Jesus. And now, dear brothers and sisters, one final thing. Fix your thoughts on what is true, and honorable, and right, and pure, and lovely, and admirable. Think about things that are excellent and worthy of praise. Keep putting into practice all you learned and received from me—everything you heard from me and saw me doing. Then the God of peace will be with you. Paul’s Thanks for Their Gifts Romans 12:2 (Temptation) Do not conform to the pattern of this world, but be transformed by the renewing of your mind. Then you will be able to test and approve what God's will is--his good, pleasing and perfect will.

I was hoping a thread like this would pop up. Thanks for including me. I'm new to the Bible. All I have is what are my favourite verses and I've barely scratched the service. Catch up tomorrow ?

There is a pandemic on the forum. Apologies if this has been covered before. Does anyone have a theory why we are so Male top heavy? There are a few women bravely flying the flag. Am I being naive in worrying about this? Most of the really bad stuff that happens on this planet is because of man not woman. I just think that it cannot be a good thing to have all these men under one roof. Before anyone asks me to leave in order to reduce the Male cohort by one, I cannot leave. I like it on here if I am serious. Am I the only one who finds it weird that men are giving men advice on how to treat women. Is that not like the blind leading the blind? Half joking here. Tongue in cheek comment. I await the deep actualised.org version of psychoanalysis as to why i have noticed this and think it's an issue.

@DrewNows Makes sense. Got me thinking.... a by product of what? Humility? Love? our general spiritual growth? It does make sense that's its a by product of something, because forgiveness is something that seems so simple, yet rebellion dogs our every step. It is right in front of us, but we cannot get there. I'm working on forgiveness all the time, and mostly failing. The by product of this perhaps? As you were saying.

@integral That's a good one, thank you.

You are right and I was wrong. What I said was false and how you have responded is the truth.

@Psychonaut That's really good thanks for sharing

@jbram2002 Having been and still being in AA this forum is a good place for me further practice humility and open mindedness. I also get to practice giving something and not expecting anything back in return. I can also develop my truth without trying to force feed it to someone else. I'm planning on watching some of Leo's earlier general self help videos at some point. I think there is a few he did that are 30mins long. At the moment I'm not too interested in Leo's current stuff. He is not the reason I am here but that could change, you never know.

Is there any teaching, any book, or any part of the Bible you are finding most helpful right now? Do you feel being on the forum is shedding any light for you? It is for me, I was just curious as to how you are finding it.

That is so beautifully worded, but also so pragmatic.

I'm working on values at the moment. For me, it's easy to embody a value from the comfort of my own home, or when I am out laying in the grass with the sun on my face, or when I am at retreat or similar venue. But then life intrudes. My craziness (ego?) shows itself to a level dependent upon the level of craziness (ego?) I bump into in the outside world. For me, holding myself to my values and demonstrating these values on the "front line" of life is FREEDOM, I can be Viktor Frankl. What do you guys think of my template below? Do you have anything to add, or anything to discuss on open mindedness? I have other values in the style of the below template that I could post down the line if this thread ends up getting any interest. Open mindedness Quote "There is a principle which is a bar against all information, which is proof against all arguments, and which cannot fail to keep a man in everlasting ignorance—that principle is contempt prior to investigation" - Herbert Spencer Definitions, meanings and thinking elements • Willingness to try new things • Willingness to consider new ideas • Reserve judgement until all the relevant facts have been established • Don’t jump to conclusions • Don’t assume • Awareness that every person is a potential teacher • Awareness that every situation could be a learning opportunity • Awareness and reflection on your prejudices Behavioural elements • Be careful with speculation and gossip • Watch out for acting on impulse, if there is time available before you want to act, think about taking advantage of this time • Body language congruent with keeping an open mind • Not jumping straight into defensive or argumentative mode • Admit mistakes and areas for development • Self-correcting of unhelpful or inaccurate judgemental processes and attitudes What you might need to let go of........ Blame, Judgement, Denial, Being Correct, Hypocrisy, Self-Righteousness, Pride, Entitlement, Greed, Selfishness, Intolerance, Wanting To Control, Wanting To Manipulate, Demands, Getting Revenge, Being Defensive. Questions to ask………… Am I sure? Am I stepping outside of not-knowing mind? Have I taken something personally? Are my demands out of touch with reality? What prejudices might I hold about this situation? Have I already made up my mind here, or am I open to a different way?

@Truth Addict For sure, and it took me years, and years, and more years to know what self-honesty is. I'm still learning. Without it, you can misdiagnose every problem you have. In my experience, some people do need support with this. Some will think "self-honesty, yep, I can check that box, it's not a problem. I don't cheat on my wife, I don't cheat on my tax returns, and I never shoplift". Some people genuinely don't know what self-honesty is. It can be a painful place in the early days, reflecting on past behaviour and looking at your own role in past events and current conflict with others. It can be difficult for some to work on self-honesty without a guide, as I think the instinctive survival mode in us can resist it, especially if that person is already at rock bottom. Thanks for the chat on this.

True, although some of the most insane stuff I've seen has come from people who have been on here for ages with massive post counts. I honestly have seen stuff that is like a temporary insanity. Intelligent debate ends up with literally "suck my dick". I actually think it is a form of temporary insanity. I think it's also called am Amygdala hijack? I've not really seen any correlation with post count and wisdom. I know that's not exactly what you are saying, but then again people could argue I might not know wisdom when I see it! But I value emotional self-control over anything else right now. Others have different goals to me, and perhaps they think nothing of screaming and shouting on the forum, and getting defensive if someone doesn't buy into their perspective. Perhaps it's terrifying to contemplate that you've done all this spiritual development, read all these books, watched all these clips, done all this meditation and self-inquiry, and at the end of it you are no more advanced than Joe Bloggs whose three down from you in the grocery store queue, and he has never read a self-development book, or watched a self-development video in his life and doesn't know what meditation is. Sorry OP - What I'm describing above I've seen more from the men on here than women. I don't know the bigger picture reason for this. It was pointed out to me that Leo's style attracts a certain crowd here. I would have thought regardless of what crowd are here, most people would like to not lose their shit on a forum? But that's me being judgmental I guess.

It's a pandemic. An infection. The women on here seem to have antibodies. Leo needs to make a vaccine, before we see more people losing their mind. Some of the threads, when they turn ugly, it's like that beginning scene from the film 28-days later when the monkey bites that person, who then goes nuts and infects all the others, who in turn infect the whole country.

@Flatworld Crusades Great question. The values I am really focusing on trying to convey and actually display are..... Open mindedness, Humility, Compassion, Forgiveness, Gratitude, Honesty and Faith/Courage (I have these two values as completely intertwined). I have other templates for these values. I am a making lists/plans kind of person!!! I like to have a blueprint. I struggle to articulate my beliefs actually. I'd have to be asked specifically by someone for me to stand a chance to answer this.

Thanks for taking an interest. If we embodied all those things ALL the time, we could be in the top 1% of the entire planet in open mindedness! Although saying that makes me sound cocky and narrow minded! I think open mindedness is something most people seem to assume they have. But at the first sign of trouble they may abandon the open mind and close it off to "win" the battle or argument! Thanks for this. Yeh, in terms of keeping things simple, I am quite obsessive and worry about what I might "leave out" that is crucial, so I end up usually putting in too much (be it in writing, or in talking!).

....and preaching his teachings.

With expectations, demands, clinging, attachment etc, I view it as "progress rather than perfection". I have no doubt that the more I drop them, the easier my life will be. In terms of your question, I don't believe (for me anyway), I will ever be free of expectation, and I'm not sure I'd want to be. I'm not sure I need to be free of it completely. However, just in terms of being pragmatic, I am sure that my expectations of life and others fucks me up more than it helps me.