Bill W

Leo would not like to sit number 1, top of the pile, in any league table I can tell you that much. He does actually have humility.

Both can be very useful tools to help facilitate hitting rock bottom.

I am aware I do not post much personal information or deep stuff on this journal. I think that will come later. Over the last three days, I read my first book in the Bible from start to finish. I picked the Gospel of John in the New Testament as recommended. It felt really good to read it and make some pencil marks on verses that resonated with me the most. There were several moments of unexpected synchronicity. I'm currently working hard on Step 3 in Alcoholics Anonymous, which reads “Made a decision to turn our will and our lives over to the care of God as we understood Him” which means I am working hard on not trying to run my life on self-will only. Another way of putting it is that I am trying to live life on life's terms (we say that a lot in AA). However, for those inclined like myself, living life on life's terms is to do God's Will and not my own. In the Gospel of John, Jesus keeps on reminding his disciples and others that he is not here of his own authority and that everything he is communicating (including the miracles) is because his Father has asked him to do this. Basically, he (Jesus) is here because it is the wish of his Father to be here and teach, especially to teach about love. That's my take anyway and I'm a newbie to the Bible. There are several amazing parts of the Gospel of John which I will share and relate back to my journey. I'll do this another time.

You know you could always do a review of those books in the book review section? Spread the word a bit on the above?

It also reminds me of the Bible in terms of "lean not on your own understanding"

I just clicked a link of yours from a post you recently made an another journal. This quote came up. It is very in tune with my AA programme in terms of handing your Will over to a God of your understanding and also having faith that a Power greater than yourself can help restore you to sanity. Actually I am aware Bill W had a fair bit of direct communication with Carl Jung. Man is never helped in his suffering by what he thinks for himself, but only by revelation of a wisdom greater than his own. It is this which lifts him out of his distress. Carl Jung (1875-1961)

What's actually real and here, begging for your attention. This especially. Brings me back to a very important question... What am I giving my attention to? While I am obsessing about various things that perhaps mean didly squat, what or who is missing out on my attention? Life can short. Real short. Thanks.

Is it that people have invested so much time and energy into a school of thought that to second guess it now at this stage would feel like going back to the beginning again? I read something once along the lines of "If my view wasn't the right view I wouldn't hold it" Or is it more that the person's own truth gets presented by them as THE truth. And if you question that you are liable to be informed that you lack understanding. Lots for me to take away from your post Ivan. It has a flavour of 12 step recovery in it. Well that's what I read. That's what I take away. I've been drawn to your content in the past as it often has a more practical and emotional vibe to it than just academic.

the chimp paradox (prof. steve peters) I have this. I think it's a fantastic book to get people to realise how much of their life is dictated by their ego (the chimp), well that's how I saw it. Like most self help books I think the book could have been a bit shorter and still made it's point. My only doubt is that because you are already on the actualisation path you might not get as much from the book as someone who has never even considered that have an ego or chimp. His emphasis and I paraphrase here on "all data goes via the chimp first" really resonated with me. His focus on befriending the chimp and keeping the chimp active but in a healthier way reminds me of something I'm going to post below in a minute.

@Identity Love your attitude. I also love the input @skywords has. Adds another dimension.

It is for me. Is it authentic? Yes, I think so. I've not heard many people arguing there is no suffering. It is worthwhile? Hell yeh! Because it's my view that not only do we suffer, but we pass that suffering on, knowingly or not, I think we do. BUT............ I would change the term "escape suffering" to "reduce suffering", as can suffering be escaped? Not sure on that one.....

I think it really depends on your end game, your overall goal. For me, I am here more for good old fashioned self-development within a spiritual context. Who or what God is, is not top of my list of things to sort out. I am not interested (currently) in specific non-dual content. My overall goal is the reduction of fear and angst, with a view to making me more useful to myself and others. I'm chasing increased peace of mind. I make my life too hard. I'm not sure what others are going to post in repsonse to you, but I couldn't possibly (accurately) give you YOUR reasons why, but if I had to give it a stab I would guess the question "why bother?" leads to an answer of to reduce your suffering? There is massive suffering in life, that much we know and is pretty much undisputed. There are also ways to alleviate suffering. In the words of Thich Nhat Hanh There is suffering Understand your suffering Know that recovery is possible Follow the path to recovery and also from him Make the Truth available Practice the Truth

This is about the normal time I come in and make a comment about beliefs and direct experience, but I'm going to give everyone a much needed break from that, but I do want to add.... I love what you've written here. @mike1111 And with this.... @Serotoninluv That's actually my favourite song of all time. U2. Do you think the song has meaning with regards your post? Genuine question, never thought about it before.

@skywords Well I'm going to drop content about beliefs for now. He's not the first person who didn't appreciate it, another forum user also didn't like it, although he (Comandent) gave a good, more detailed, critique about it. Although I did get a nice PM from someone who thought one of my posts around beliefs & direct experience was powerful, he even called it profound. That still leaves me 2-1 down if we counting! So i'll quit while I am behind. I will just use my journal for dialogue on beliefs for now, and have a think on it, but leave the issue dormant and focus on other stuff for the main forum.

@TrynaBeTurquoise Oh come on man, there is no need for it to descend to this. You sound like you are speaking on behalf of the whole forum. If my stuff is false, it shouldn't matter too much to you as long it's not offensive or against forum rules. And if I am not teachable in some way, again it shouldn't really bother you. And I really wouldn't spend any time wondering how I ended up here

I am with you on that! Beliefs are not truths. Take your belief about what my mind is doing for example. You believe you know what my mind is doing! We can't help ourselves but to do this, you included my friend @TrynaBeTurquoise

@skywords I back Leo and moderators on all decisions I've ever seen as I think they have a good balance of letting people post freely but also to maintain good standards. But I for one like your content and I hope you and the team can live in (mostly) harmony here. I hope we don't lose you.

I love his way teaching in that clip. No fluff. Every word counts. Reminds me of Albert Ellis and his style.

Great post. For me, I want to discipline monkey mind and to concentrate/contemplate.

@TrynaBeTurquoise That's fine man! We all have our own ideas, views and beliefs on things. You are asking some good "why" questions, but neither of us have the answer to those questions!

That's a good explanation. Makes sense.

David Hawkins Letting Go Everything by Don Miguel Ruiz Alcoholics anonymous text book 4th edition Marcus Aurelius meditations Dr Phil self matters and life strategies Osho the buddha said

@Nak Khid I admire anyone that can pull off wearing a wig like that on YouTube.

@Preety_India although disclaimer: not accusing witches of being dangerous! Me and him might be more risky to the witches than vice versa lol.

Let me know if you find anything as I'm in London as well and we could go on a double date just to be safe bro.