Nivsch

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Posts posted by Nivsch

  1. Posted · Edited by Nivsch

    55 minutes ago, DawnC said:

    But you see, I don't think your perception here is accurate at all. Comparing Israel to Russia is simply absurd. Doesn't it bother you that this is exactly what Hamas wants? They want people in the West to pressure Israel so they can get away with what they are doing. See what I wrote here a few days ago:

    The numbers you are taking seriously originate from Hamas (which had no problem lying to you about the hospital bombing). You don't take into account the fact that Hamas uses teenagers as militants and later regards them as children casualties. You forget that there are hundreds of misfired rockets, like the one fired at the hospital. You don't take into account that Hamas dresses its militants in regular clothes to later classify them as civilians. You also don't address the fact that Hamas pays civilians to participate in war efforts and then counts them as civilians (as seen 7/10).

    From a strategic perspective, you misunderstand the fact that Hamas has a strategic goal of having the most children and civilian casualties possible and doesn't place much value on civilian's lives, while Israel is genuinely concerned about their image as they need European and US support. So, even if they were to desire such actions, they are aware that it would be a major strategic mistake. You also fail to consider the fact that Hamas uses children as human shields to protect its militants when they are targeting civilians (for example, shooting rockets from schools or civilian houses) and that is a very difficult situation to deal with militarily.

    So, in your view, the right thing for Israel is to provide electricity and water to enemy bunkers during war (where their civilians are being targeted by intentional rocket attacks) and to put their own soldiers' lives in incredible danger because Hamas tactics involve placing civilians in the crossfire. Do you think that's a reasonable criterion to set? Should Israel also avoid shooting at any location where there are civilians? This is not how conflicts operate. If Israel were to adopt such measures, any Hamas militant could take advantage of the situation, and they will not be able to get even to one of them. Should Hamas be granted immunity because of their horrific tactics? Should the Israelis be more receptive to Western critics influenced by Hamas propaganda? 

    What do you think?

    Anyway, I can still have criticism about an attack here or there. But I believe the important thing here is that I'm not conflating criticism of the accepted level of collateral damage (with people who actually care about that) in some specific attacks with moral equivalence. The fact that I have criticism about the Allies bombing Dresden doesn't make them morally equivalent to the Nazis. It's not solely about examining individual tragedies (which can be heartbreaking). The broader picture is more important.

     

    🎯🥇

  2. Posted · Edited by Nivsch

    1. Yes but It doesn't justify a promil of its actions.

    2. Yes the palestinians have suffered from this conflict what has caused radicalization, but that wouldn't happen without their initial tendency to be that way, even before Israel, what we can see in the mufti of jerusalem and his values that were similar to hamas's, and probably reflect some part of the population that lived here. All of that even before the "help" from Israel.

    6 hours ago, Karmadhi said:

    many are orphans whose parents were killed by Israel. Meanwhile IDF soldiers are usually first world boys who never had any pain come from them from Gaza

    Not true. More than 1,100 Israeli citizens had been murdered during 2nd intifada in early 00's by hamas terrorists from west bank mainly but not only.

    3. Agree

    4. But Israel attacks in Gaza almost always only after being provoked and Israel has never declared it has a goal to eliminate the palestinians but hamas did declare it wants to eliminate Israel. I think the Jews established Israel are in one way occupiers but not less than that if not even more - refugees. therefore the picture is very complex.

  3. Posted · Edited by Nivsch

    30 minutes ago, Twentyfirst said:

    If they really are sent by god and the rest of us are animals like they claim...then why the worry? They will be fine. If god wrote that it is their land then it will be theres. It is the prophecy after all 

    I have never heard even one Israeli in all the 36 years I live here who thinks what you just wrote. Sounds very crazy.

  6. Posted · Edited by Nivsch

    12 minutes ago, Breakingthewall said:

    To say that is simplistic. Hamas rules in Gaza and has committed actions that amount to an unambiguous declaration of total war. They have gotten exactly that, war, and war is savage and horrible. War is a universal human constant, if you want to understand humans you have to understand war. The children are not to blame for this, but war respects no one. The reality is that if the war starts, it must be won, and other considerations take a backseat.

    Israel, a country of 10 million inhabitants, lives surrounded by countries of hundreds of millions of inhabitants who want its destruction. It makes no difference if for you Israel should not exist. exists, and will fight to continue doing so, and to do so it will do whatever is necessary, like every entity that exists.

    👍 I like how you summarized it.

    I hope the hostages are also taken into account by the government as much as possible, because here in the news studios from how the people there and the commentators are speaking, I got the impression everyone in Israel understand that to bring back the hostages is a top priority and the war cannot be won without getting them back.

  7. Posted · Edited by Nivsch

    1 hour ago, Twentyfirst said:

    So you are saying that its safer for Palestinians if its just Israel and Palestine on the chessboard rather than having Israel, Palestine, and Hamas on the chessboard? So in what way would they be safer?

    What is your definition of a terror organization?

    A Palestinian authority regime, with the help and a security co-operation with Israel OR with other forces is a healthy situation, like what happens today in the west bank while Israel and the palestinian authority work together to prevent hamas from growing there, which is a strong interest of both Israel and the palestinian authority.

  8. Posted · Edited by Nivsch

    10 hours ago, Jodistrict said:

    “I Will Not Be Silenced”: Rep. Rashida Tlaib Calls for Gaza Ceasefire as House Votes to Censure Her”

    This is a video of her emotional speech.

    https://www.democracynow.org/2023/11/8/house_censures_rashida_tlaib_on_israel

    “On Tuesday, the House of Representatives voted to censure Democratic Congressmember Rashida Tlaib, the only Palestinian American in Congress, for her criticism of Israel. The vote was 234 to 188, with 22 Democrats joining Republicans to censure Tlaib.” 

    She was censored for just asking for a ceasefire.  So much for free speech.  This shows us the central problem.   Congress is owned by the Israeli lobby and they get a blank check.  There is no check on Israel’s power and they  are allowed to do terrible things and any criticism is censored.  
     

    I choose to believe she is honest and authentic in her speech and emotions she showed in it, because it won't be fair to dismiss it.

    But I think what needs to be understood is that without removing this extreme terror organization, nobody will be in a better place, not Israelis nor the palestines, and while she chooses to focus only on one side's problems, without thinking deeper on why Israel does what it does, she actually give this terror organization exactly what it wants and play into it's hands.

    It does not mean she can't say for example that Israel's attacks need to be more surgical because maybe there is room to improve that.

    But these simplistic moral preacheses only make us stay stuck and are like stick on the wheels that delay the arrival of the necessary change.

  10. Posted · Edited by Nivsch

    41 minutes ago, DefinitelyNotARobot said:

    A proper stage blue society is exactly what the Israeli government fears. If Palestine was as advanced as like for example Iran (economically, infrastructurally, militarily), everything would surge back up. All the fear, all the hate, all the violence that the Palestinians got to know. It doesn't just disappear into nowhere like some magic trick. Conservation of energy. Everything that is being suppressed today will come back up tomorrow. You think Hamas it the problem? Hamas is only a symptom. Remove the infected arm and another arm will be there to strangle you. This won't stop in a day or two. This might not be over in a 100 years. Israel leaders know that. They're not stupid. All they could do so far, without steering up too much chaos, was to suppress and deny the issue. This tactic has run it's course. An actual, strong, stage blue Palestine wouldn't need to send some puny terrorists. They would be capable of going to ACTUAL war.

    I understand what you say and you have an interesting point, but I think that in the field of blue armys Israel is quite confident in its superiority on the other armys in the middle east. As it also been proven in the past.

  11. Posted · Edited by Nivsch

    3 minutes ago, Breakingthewall said:

    maybe help them economically to develop, but I suppose that before that there has to be a serious upheaval, something that makes the Palestinians see that it is better to focus on the practical side of life, look to the future, and forget about revenge, although it seems difficult for this to happen

    Agree. Probably only a more stage blue leadership like the more moderate palestinian authority at the beggining.

  12. Posted · Edited by Nivsch

    @_Archangel_ This is immoral for Israel to agree a ceasefire as long as our 240 hostages are there.

    Also it will help hamas get organized better to the fight and kill more soldiers for nothing.

    Also this is worth mentioning that eliminating hamas will do good long term to the Gazaians much much more than anything else the hypocrite world will want Israel to do in that time.

    Dont get confused with humanitarian aid which to this Israel agree all the time.

    You want a chance the world will respect you then respect yourself first.

  14. Posted · Edited by Nivsch

    19 minutes ago, Twentyfirst said:

    Whats your solution to all this? I haven't heard any of that from you

    I already said mine and the reasons why I think it's the best. Move Israel to USA 

    If you have a better solution for no more war ever then speak up 

    To eliminate hamas and give the control to the palestinian authority with the help of another forces/IDF. After that to stop the settlements expansion and even declare on it officialy.

    Then we will see whats next.

     

  15. Posted · Edited by Nivsch

    36 minutes ago, zazen said:

    @Nivsch They left in 2005 but not completely. Control of borders, air space, sea and essentials such as food/water which can be leveraged against them at any time is not completely leaving. It may not be a death camp, but its close enough to a concentration camp.

    You have to really consider if any other option is possible given a terror organization regime in the place who TAKES gazaian's resources to himself as much as possible, and of course wants to destruct Israel. Whould you valunteer to give it also free air and water spaces? how naive the critisizm of Israel can be. This is so easy to make those absurd claims from thousands of miles away.

    Also ask yourself If they even have the ability to supply themselves with many of these things and in the proper amount.

    The southern border is controlled by Egypt by the way. Ask them why they are so afraid to get gazaians into their land. maybe they understand the situation even better than Israel.

    36 minutes ago, zazen said:

    concentration camp

    Slogans I can also drop to the air and it will sound very convincing I promise you :)🌈

  16. Posted · Edited by Nivsch

    39 minutes ago, Twentyfirst said:

    Do you have a girlfriend? If so can I have sex with her on Mondays, Wednesdays, and Fridays. You can have four nights and I will only take three. That way you win

    I am not sure I understood the analogy.

    39 minutes ago, Twentyfirst said:

    You should have gone and seen for yourself

    Oslo greement tried to make them quite independent what made the terror worse with suicide bombs in Israeli cities twice a week! Israel should have go in there from new and conquer parts of the west bank. 

    It seems to me you don't want to discuss seriously so unless you explain more I stop here.

    I dont know why you feel this hatred and I dont remember from where you are. You can share if you want but I think you just want to argue.

  17. Posted · Edited by Nivsch

    @Twentyfirst

    Doesn't it fair to divide the land almost equally between two populations that both have fair claims on it?

    28 minutes ago, Twentyfirst said:

    breaking so many international laws? 

    Can you explain it?

    28 minutes ago, Twentyfirst said:

    Gaza and the West Bank are open air prisons for decades

    How so? Israel completely left Gaza in 2005 allowing them to do whatever they want.

    Why is the West Bank a prison in your opinion?

    28 minutes ago, Twentyfirst said:

    have inhumane conditions

    Because of whom? because of hamas.

    Why you so hate Israel?

    BTW from where are you?

  19. Posted · Edited by Nivsch

    49 minutes ago, Twentyfirst said:

    They are only refugees after they are kicked out

    I want to ask you to read this ⬇️ and add anything you know and want to the discussion. Just using slogans won't help the discussion and that I can also do.

    On 6.11.2023 at 3:01 PM, Nivsch said:

    The education here is about the war of indepenence. I think the awareness to the problems Jews did to arabs in this war is highly partial because honestly I also wasn't aware until recent years.

    You can add things you know, but from what I know and read, the arabs were the side that resist co-existing the most, and started in 1947 the war after the UN's distribution plan has been published.

    Can we assume that if the arabs were just accept the UN plan, and did nothing, so there would be nothing? Just to think about that.

    The vast majority of arabs abandoned their homes by themselves what doesnt make the situation good because they felt trauma anyway.

    The jews were quite deffensive at the beggining, and only after their survival and existance was really threatened to a critical point, only then they started to actively conquer lands and not always in moral ways.

    But yes, during this war there were active deportations of arabs from their homes but I read that most of the deportations were because the arabs resisted in violence in the first place, but not always. The question is - did the jews came here and just started a violence or let the people evacuate by themselves?

    Even if the answer is the latter, it still doesnt make it good because deportation is deportation. But again, the active deportations were most likely most of them only after the jews were almost been killed according to what I wrote above assuming this is the full picture.

    So I assume I can smell who is the (much?) more problematic side here and it is not the jews. But maybe I am biased. Add things from your own knowledge if you want.

     

  21. Posted · Edited by Nivsch

    1 hour ago, Leo Gura said:

    They are less.

    In a true genocide Israel would intentionally target civilians. You can't do a genocide by only going after Hamas.

    The problem is not that they are doing genocide, it's that they are being too loose and careless when targetting Hamas. The Israeli policy is that if a bomb will kill 1 Hamas guy and 100 civilians, they drop the bomb. This loose standard is the problem.

    Leo but from where did you get the 1:100 ratio?

    Because the estimated number of hamas terrorists who have been killed within the land of gaza strip is 3000-4000 according to IDF.

  22. Posted · Edited by Nivsch

    11 hours ago, Twentyfirst said:

    It comes out in someone's speech and actions. You can just tell

    I used to talk like a victim. Now I never do 

    It's not weak or strong "in my eyes". Theres simply just weak and strength. Cowardice and bravery. The true OG's know what I am talking about 

    I understand thats what you think.

    I think differently.

    Also you see victimhood and bravery in a different way than I am.

    The Israeli soldiers who are risking their lives right now are probably also cowards according to this theory I guess.

    Ok, everyone may think however they want.