Leo Gura

Actually, look closer. Is there an "I" who is aware of sensory experiences? Or is there only sensory experience, without a YOU? If there is a YOU, point to it. It should be easy to find. As you carefully investigate all this, don't dismiss the possibility that there may not be a YOU there at all. After all, why would there be? P.S. The reason you're stuck is because the thing you think exists (YOU), actually doesn't. It's like you're trying to find a needle in a haystack when there never was any needle to begin with. Now... the only question is, how long will it take "you" to realize that?

@oysterman For me self-inquiry is a combination of thinking and being. There are generally two ways to become enlightened: 1) Use the thinking mind to eat itself alive, finally seeing through the illusion. (The method of contemplation or questioning or deconstruction) 2) Just be still for so long that the mind quiets down and Truth reveals itself. (The method of meditation or mindfulness) In reality, you will intermix both methods because it's very hard to only do one method for years on end. You will naturally have intellectual questions arise. You will naturally want to actively think about your thinking and logically investigate your beliefs. And you will also have to go beyond thinking, still the mind, and reside in raw awareness. So I think it would be a trap to so start a debate in your mind about whether method #1 is better or worse than method #2. You really want to master both. For some people, one method will be much more effective than another. That's okay. Experiment with methods until you find one that suits you. Don't be rigid with methods. There are many methods and you will not know which is effective for you unless you try it for a while. I've personally found week-long mindfulness meditation retreats most effective. It's really hard to not get a glimpse of enlightenment after 100 hours of full-time mindfulness meditation. But that's just me. And I have done a lot of intellectual deconstruction already, so that set the foundation for the mindfulness work. Because my mind is very conceptual and creative, meditation tends to be very effective because it stills the mind. To me, deconstruction & meditation are like peanut-butter and jelly BTW, the "Who am I?" and "What am I?" questions are NOT meant to be intellectually answered. You ask those questions and then BE the answer! It's a dredging up process. You keep querying "What am I?" until all the false answers are purged from your mind and you BECOME the answer. Any intellectual answer, any linguistic answer, is NOT the answer. The answer is an experience, not a thought or sentence.

If you do hours for cross-legged sitting every day for years, it can screw up your knees. So if you're afraid of that, just use a well-padded chair for long sits.

No, it's not. You can feel the floor without any thinking whatsoever. Notice that when you stop thinking for 3 seconds, the floor doesn't disappear. If thought was required for awareness, the entire universe would cease to exist in between each of your thoughts. A thought is just one kind of arising WITHIN awareness. Awareness is required for thought, but thought is not required for awareness.

@Martin123 Well, it's a physiological fact that your right brain controls your left hand.

@Martin123 Of course. Stuff like shaking or twitching is often the direct result of suppressing emotions and improper energy flow through the body from years of low-consciousness living. And it can be reversed.

@George Paul Try it and see. Or don't and keep living inside your fears.

@Azrael Good stuff, but sounds like you've only experienced about 5% of what 5-meo has to show you. Your mind has not yet been sufficiently blown The difference between 22mg and 30mg is infinite, in my experience.

@Svartsaft Some more meditation would purify you of this reaction against meditation

@Martin123 Growth involves change. That's what you're seeing. So don't be too surprised. With growth comes confusion and not-knowing. Get used to not having that comfortable feeling of "I understand reality and my role in it." That turned out to be a lie.

No, no, no! You have no idea yet that what you call "reality" and "your life" are all just silly hallucinations. You have no idea yet how powerful 5-meo is. It's beyond any experience and anything you think is possible for reality to be. The bottom line is you will NEVER, EVER understand unless you try it. And if you ever do try it, you will instantly understand why people dedicate their entire lives to walking the hard path.

Yes, enlightenment and generally personal development is about getting out of your left-brain dominance. Especially for those of us in the West who've been indoctrinated into a left-brained culture. I'll be talking a lot more about this in the future. It's an extremely important and practice piece of information. We can actually use this knowledge to re-program the brain and trigger more enlightenment experiences and raise our consciousness.

@vikisss1 What is Spiral Dynamics? It's a model that traces the development or evolution of consciousness.

Folks, please remember to keep your posts thoughtful, non-personal, and avoid turning this discussion into an ideological debate. Otherwise this thread may end up getting locked.

This is an emotionally charged topic for many. Folks, please remember to keep your posts thoughtful, non-personal, and avoid turning this discussion into an ideological debate. Otherwise this thread may end up getting locked.

@Shan You can discuss in the "Life Purpose, Career, Entrepreneurship" sub-forum here. Just try to avoid posting material directly from the course.

@Martin123 You can swallow, lol.

Yes, nihilism is a good counter-point. Several problems may arise however: 1) Confusing nihilism with reality or the nondual point of view. Giving people the wrong impression and leading them to think that nonduality is a philosophical position. 2) Have you actually thought through the radical implications of nihilism? Really think it through. Try to actually embody it. 3) Many people are turned off by it, so it's not good from the perspective of marketing.

@Aamir King Why do you think SDS is so effective? You should be smart enough to realize that it's because it's emotionally hard as fuck. NO MOVEMENT AT ALL! You sit there until your head explodes in agony. It's gonna feel like full on torture. If you have circulation problems, just sit in a chair with legs uncrossed. Try sitting in a chair without moving for 2 hours. Your mind will come up with every excuse and fear in the book to get you to quit prematurely. Your job is to not get tricked by it. If you don't like this, then switch to a less hardcore technique. There are many softer techniques. SDS is really for masochists. FYI, some Zen monks can sit like that for 5 DAYS STRAIGHT! So whatever problems you think you have during a 1 or 2 hour sit are laughable.

Again, there is more to enlightenment than enlightenment. You sure are insistent on bashing everything with your one hammer. And be careful about assuming who's experience here is more limited.

@GTITurbolover "If you only have a hammer, you tend to see every problem as a nail." That's why it doesn't make logical sense to you. But actually, what's illogical is boiling down all of life and reality to a simple-minded, one-dimensional thing. Enlightenment and spirituality is VASTLY more complex and nuanced than you ever imagined. As it ought to be, given that we're talking about the nature of an infinite reality and how to navigate it masterfully. If this topic was so cut-and-dry and one-dimensional, there wouldn't exist the enormous diversity and complexity found in all mystical and spiritual traditions around the world. You haven't studied enough diverse perspectives yet on spirituality. Which is why I warn people to be openminded and to never become loyal to any one teaching or teacher. You will develop a lopsided understanding of reality if you do that. Even if you manage to attain enlightenment.

Like I said, their enlightenment isn't very deep, and there's A LOT more to this than merely enlightenment.

This is not true. Enlightenment isn't nihilism. If anything, an enlightened person cares MORE about what's going on in the world because they have compassion and love, and understand the nature of ignorance and suffering. It's possible to deeply care, but in a detached -- non-egoic -- way. If you can't look at a small homeless crippled child and cry, your enlightenment isn't very deep. And if you don't care about anything or anyone, then your enlightenment has gone really awry.

When you awaken, you will laugh at this. The person you have now (you) is so much smaller than the person you will be (You). Hang in there and as the suffering arises on this path, try to enjoy it. Nothing is really being lost. Just illusions falling away.

That's what happens when the mind is closed. A sad, sad thing.