Does exercising really make you live longer?

[undeather]

19 minutes ago, Michael569 said:

Adjusted HR 5.04 Low vs Elite V02 Max fuuuuuuck !! . That is absolutely insane, I've not seen this stat before. What constitutes low and what constitutes elite? Also what constitutes High & Average in this chart. 

is this for ACM? 

Elite = 2 SD(standard deviations) above average -> so 97.7th and above percentile of cardiorespiratory fitness (measured on a treadmill)
High = 75th - 97.6th percentile
Above Average = 50th -75th percentile
Below average = 25 - 49th percentile
Low= 25th percentile and below

Yes, it's risk adjusted ACM
Here is the study: https://jamanetwork.com/journals/jamanetworkopen/fullarticle/2707428

[Yousif]

The question still stands 

how does over using something make it live longer?

If you don’t have a logical answer with words, not graphs or weird terminology that no one knows about,

Please , stop replying to this post.

[undeather]

54 minutes ago, Yousif said:

I’m not loyal to logic

 

But science in its current form is , so I’m just using their language so we can understand each other

 

if you have an illogical explanation of why over using something makes it last longer by all means go ahead, enlighten me

Your underlying misunderstanding lies in the assumption that biological systems deteriorate in the same manner as mechanical ones do. Contrary to the notion that the heart succumbs to wear and tear like a vehicle reaching its mileage limit, the biological reality operates on a fundamentally different premise.

Consider a theoretical exploration involving identical twins, indistinguishable in DNA, upbringing, and lifestyle, adhering to an identical diet throughout their lives. Imagine that at the age of ten, one twin—whom we'll name John—begins a regimen of regular exercise, while his brother James leads a sedentary lifestyle. Fast forward to their 70th birthday, and following a celebration, they subject themselves to an advanced heart health assessment in a clinic equipped with futuristic technology. Despite both hearts being chronologically aged at 70 years, John's heart demonstrates markedly superior efficiency in blood circulation. Not only does it appear more youthful via ultrasound, but it excels across every metric evaluated.

Curious about these discrepancies, they undergo a heart biopsy for a closer examination at the cellular level. Under the scrutiny of the microscope, the differences become starkly apparent. John's cardiac cells exhibit enhanced resilience against the degenerative forces that besiege us all as we age. This resilience is evident in the diminished susceptibility to free radical damage, the upregulation of epigenetic markers boosting mitochondrial energy production, improved lysosomal degradation, and elongated telomeres indicating a greater capacity for cell division. Furthermore, John's consistent physical activity has augmented his VO2 max, optimizing oxygen delivery to his cells and amplifying their adaptive responses.

James, in a moment of revelation, exclaims, "AHHHH!!!" He finally understands that the heart is not akin to a car. This moment underscores a crucial insight: living organisms are comprised of cells—entities capable of division and complex self-renewal, allowing our bodies to repair and fortify themselves against a multitude of challenges. We even have some special kind of cells, called stemcells - which under certain circumstance can produce new tissue ad infinitum. Thus, the aging of biological systems cannot be simplified to mere temporal strain. It is a profoundly intricate process, far surpassing any mechanical analogy.

This complex dynamic makes it possible that an biological system which objectively went through more "movement"/"effort" or "strain" can be biologically younger and healthier than a sedentary counterpart.

Edited March 6, 2024 by undeather

[Yousif]

18 minutes ago, undeather said:

Your underlying misunderstanding lies in the assumption that biological systems deteriorate in the same manner as mechanical ones do. Contrary to the notion that the heart succumbs to wear and tear like a vehicle reaching its mileage limit, the biological reality operates on a fundamentally different premise.

Consider a theoretical exploration involving identical twins, indistinguishable in DNA, upbringing, and lifestyle, adhering to an identical diet throughout their lives. Imagine that at the age of ten, one twin—whom we'll name John—begins a regimen of regular exercise, while his brother James leads a sedentary lifestyle. Fast forward to their 70th birthday, and following a celebration, they subject themselves to an advanced heart health assessment in a clinic equipped with futuristic technology. Despite both hearts being chronologically aged at 70 years, John's heart demonstrates markedly superior efficiency in blood circulation. Not only does it appear more youthful via ultrasound, but it excels across every metric evaluated.

Curious about these discrepancies, they undergo a heart biopsy for a closer examination at the cellular level. Under the scrutiny of the microscope, the differences become starkly apparent. John's cardiac cells exhibit enhanced resilience against the degenerative forces that besiege us all as we age. This resilience is evident in the diminished susceptibility to free radical damage, the upregulation of epigenetic markers boosting mitochondrial energy production, improved lysosomal degradation, and elongated telomeres indicating a greater capacity for cell division. Furthermore, John's consistent physical activity has augmented his VO2 max, optimizing oxygen delivery to his cells and amplifying their adaptive responses.

James, in a moment of revelation, exclaims, "AHHHH!!!" He finally understands that the heart is not akin to a car. This moment underscores a crucial insight: living organisms are comprised of cells—entities capable of division and complex self-renewal, allowing our bodies to repair and fortify themselves against a multitude of challenges. We even have some special kind of cells, called stemcells - which under certain circumstance can produce new tissue ad infinitum. Thus, the aging of biological systems cannot be simplified to mere temporal strain. It is a profoundly intricate process, far surpassing any mechanical analogy.

 

The matter is simple, you really don’t need all these graphs or paragraphs, I already said the point that the system will be more efficient is valid, but

my question is how does over using your heart make it live longer??

to answer that question we have to know what aging is, what causes something to age faster?

It’s not time, because time doesn’t exist in the real world 

what makes someone/ something age is the amount of work and energy it has expenditured,

If you compare a celebrity with a normal person that’s been working physical jobs his whole life, even tho they’re both 50 years old, the guy that doe’s physical labor looks 75 while the celebrity looks 30, 

 

and I know you’re gonna say oh that’s just stress and lifestyle, and diet

but the truth is the person that puts out more energy is the one that’s gonna age faster.

 

ALSO, stop assuming you can’t compare a living organic being to a mechanical machine. After all we’re all made of the same atoms according to science. 
 

 

 

Edited March 6, 2024 by Yousif

[undeather]

Well, I tried.
Good luck with your life, Yousif! 

[Yousif]

19 minutes ago, undeather said:

Well, I tried.
Good luck with your life, Yousif! 

Good luck to you as well.

[Princess Arabia]

Everything is designed specifically to accomplish or do specific things which in turn require different maintenance. The human body was designed to move. You cannot compare a drinking glass to a human body in this regard. Does a glass have a heart or kidneys or lungs. 

Exercise can extend your years because you are caring for specific body parts and those require a certain level of optimization to function properly and can wear down causing the speed up of entropy which is responsible for aging. The cells have telomeres which gets shorter and shorter and they have a shelf life depending on the pace at which these telomeres shorten and probably slows down if we treat the body in a healthy way.  You cannot compare humans to even tigers to turtles nor turtles to tigers because of how they are designed; and each is specifically designed for it's respective survival.

In general, moderate exercise can optimize the body's capabilities which in turn allow it to do it's job more effectively. What exercises you do will determine it's optimization and some exercises are more beneficial than some depending on your aim. Overall, it is good practice in addition to a healthy lifestyle for living a healthier life. You can get run over by a truck while doing all these things, so it is not a prerequisite for living longer on its own, but it surely helps to ward off certain cardiovascular ailments and degenerative diseases that can bring on pre-mature death.

[Princess Arabia]

55 minutes ago, Yousif said:

my question is how does over using your heart make it live longer??

When you take care of the heart by exercising it or eating the proper heart-healthy foods, the heart is not being over-used, it is being optimized - there's a difference. 

[Princess Arabia]

The way that something gets overused is if something else is being underused and that thing has to kick in to make up for what that underused thing was supposed to be doing in the first place. I'm referring to body parts in the human systems.

[Yousif]

12 minutes ago, Princess Arabia said:

When you take care of the heart by exercising it or eating the proper heart-healthy foods, the heart is not being over-used, it is being optimized - there's a difference. 

This is like the 3rd time I say that this point is valid, but my point or question was, how does overusing something makes it live longer? Is that logical?

If you look at it purely logically, you’ll soon realize it doesn’t make any logical sense, our logic tells us the more we use something the faster it gets old or die.

 

there might be an illogical answer to this, I’m not really sure.

 

I’m not loyal to logic, scientists and our current systems are.

if there’s in illogical answer, I don’t know how we’re still defending and are loyal to logic and science as it is done today.

Edited March 6, 2024 by Yousif

[ZenAlex]

The body is designed to move, but I think it's about knowing at what point exercise is benefiting you and making you feel better and at what point the amount of exercise you're doing is no longer going to lead to any health benefits but merely place more stress on the body and your body will simply adapt to it.

I do think that exercise beyond a certain point could age you prematurely because intense exercise can increase cortisol  and stress ages people.

The only thing I'd say is listen to your body. Exercise to a certain degree can make you feel better. Sedentary lifestyles are proven to be unhealthy. So it's about finding the middle ground between unecesssary wear and tear levels so stressful exercise and sedentary.

[Yousif]

12 minutes ago, Princess Arabia said:

The way that something gets overused is if something else is being underused and that thing has to kick in to make up for what that underused thing was supposed to be doing in the first place. I'm referring to body parts in the human systems.

I’m referring to one specific organ which is the heart, what science says is, the more you exercise, the more it’s efficient, which I agree, but I don’t agree that over using it will make you live longer, and yes professional athletes are overusing their heart , I could be wrong  , but if I am wrong, the answer would have to be illogical, because strictly looking at it logically it’s impossible for something to get better over time by using it more, 

compare anything in the universe, give me one logical explanation of anything living or non living that, the more you use it, the newer it gets.

Edited March 6, 2024 by Yousif

[Yousif]

2 minutes ago, Yousif said:

I’m referring to one specific organ which is the heart, what science says is, the more you exercise, the more it’s efficient, which I agree, but I don’t agree that over using it will make you live longer, and yes professional athletes are overusing their heart , I could be wrong , but if I am wrong, the answer would have to be illogical, because strictly looking at it logically it’s impossible for something to get better over time by using it more, 

compare anything in the universe, give me one logical explanation of anything living or non living that, the more you use it, the newer it gets.

 

[Princess Arabia]

7 minutes ago, Yousif said:

I’m referring to one specific organ which is the heart, what science says is, the more you exercise, the more it’s efficient, which I agree, but I don’t agree that over using it will make you live longer, and yes professional athletes are overusing, I could be wrong , but if I am wrong, the answer would have to be illogical, because strictly looking at it logically it’s impossible for something to get better over time by using it more, 

compare anything in the universe, give me one logical explanation of anything living or non living that, the more you use it, the newer it gets.

You are right in the sense if you over-use the heart it will put strain on it and cause it to burn out quicker. That's why they have heart-monitors on exercise machines. I don't think scientists are saying if you OVERUSE the heart, you will live longer, that's how you're interpreting what they're saying.

Edited March 6, 2024 by Princess Arabia

[Princess Arabia]

3 minutes ago, Yousif said:

compare anything in the universe, give me one logical explanation of anything living or non living that, the more you use it, the newer it gets.

Idk, maybe the brain.

[Yousif]

2 minutes ago, Princess Arabia said:

You are right in the sense if you over-use the heart it will put strain on it and cause it to burn out quicker. That's why they gave heart-monitors on exercise machines. I don't think scientists are saying if you OVERUSE the heart, you will live longer, that's how you're interpreting what they're saying.

They do say that being athletic will make you live longer. 
 

look up how to live longer, any doctor or scientist Will tell you to be more athletic and that athleticism is healthy

Edited March 6, 2024 by Yousif

[Princess Arabia]

@YousifPlease stop comparing animate objects to inanimate objects in this way. It will make your arguments futile and harder for your point to come across because you cannot compare the two when it comes to over-usage. A glass sitting on a shelf for 100 years is not equivalent to a glass being unused for 100yrs because it is inanimate and is not in the same category as a human body.

[Princess Arabia]

5 minutes ago, Yousif said:

They do say that being athletic will make you live longer. 
 

look up how to live longer, any doctor or scientist Will tell you to be more athletic and that athleticism is healthy

It has the potential to optimize the body to make it work more productively and efficiently but only in addition to other aspects. You cannot be athletic and eat 20 burgers a day and it producing the same effect. The difference though is that someone being athletic and not eating the 20 burgers will fair better than someone who does in the long run.

Lots of people now are doing better than lots of other people doing the same things they're doing because of practices they had growing up as in if they were active or not. For example, what can make the difference in 2people who smoke apart from genetics, could be if one is either more active now or was more active as a child where the body was predisposed to these benefits and was programmed to operate more efficiently for a longer period of time. Please don't take that statement as absolutely correct as it is only an educated/intellectual guess based off of what I have observed in the differences between the two.

[Yousif]

5 minutes ago, Princess Arabia said:

@YousifPlease stop comparing animate objects to inanimate objects in this way. It will make your arguments futile and harder for your point to come across because you cannot compare the two when it comes to over-usage. A glass sitting on a shelf for 100 years is not equivalent to a glass being unused for 100yrs because it is inanimate and is not in the same category as a human body.

Fine, my point is still valid even if the heart gets better with more usage or exercise, that is illogical, things get old the more you use them is what logic says, maybe the way reality is ran is illogical, but the issue here would be that we’re still defending a powerful system that has a lot of money, power and influence, even though it’s very base ( logic) isn’t valid to get to the truth, and that’s my problem, if the base the whole building will collapse eventually, and the whole point was to show a few of science believes that are in this forum the sorta of systems they’re defending blindly,

 

which leads to my point, if they know that it’s illogical for something to get better after more usage, why are they still loyal to logic?

[Yousif]

My point is, it isn’t that hard to figure out logic from illogic, and they way they describe the human body and its function isn’t logical at all, and yet, they’re still loyal to logic 

Edited March 6, 2024 by Yousif