What is the similarity between deep sleep nothingness and awake state of something?

[Atb210201]

This piece of the puzzle just doesn't make much sense to me that when you are in the waking state you are awareness itself that is experiencing the world and itself as the world but in the deep sleep state of nothingness you don't even exist as awareness there is literally no you in that state to experience anything

so how is everything consciousness and awareness when in the deep sleep state there is no you no experiencer no world no nothing and no consciousness and awareness also?

my main question is how can that also be awareness and consciousness if there is no thing?

 

can consciousness and awareness be only a product of experience and a you and the world? and if so then they can't be the fundamental reality because there is a state where they are not there

 

 

[Someone here]

Good question. 

Think of it this way..All there is is consciousness. Consciousness can take different forms. Or consciousness can be formless .deep sleep is simply formless consciousness. And the waking state is formed consciousness. But in the ultimate sense of course this duality must collapse..something =nothing. 

"form is emptiness, emptiness is form. "-Heart Sutra

[Atb210201]

And also if this is the case then consciousness and awareness are the mind itself which appears into existence in the waking state and all the mystical experiences are just a product of the mind

[Atb210201]

@Someone here great so then mystical experiences are all just some other forms that consciousness takes because after all they are still being experienced by someone isn't that right?

in other words mystical experiences are just some heightened states of perception 

Edited August 27, 2022 by Atb210201

[Someone here]

3 minutes ago, Atb210201 said:

@Someone here great so then mystical experiences are all just some other forms that consciousness takes because after all they are still being experienced by someone isn't that right?

Yes .mystical experiences are a variety of the infinite states that consciousness can take .  You are always in some state of consciousness. Whether you are high on drugs ..horny ..hungry ..tired..sleeping ..dreaming ..having a mystical experience etc.....it's all different states that consciousness can take .

[Atb210201]

@Someone here okay great so this is what I want to get at

If mystical experiences are also just some states that consciousness can take then who's to say they are the real reality behind everything and also even if they feel more real than the reality we are in it's just a heightened sense of reality isn't it?

I mean I'm just saying more real is still not a conformation for them to be the real actuality of everything what if there is no reality to anything and reality quote on quote is just a term to describe what you are feeling and sensing at the moment

then if all of these are the case then who can say it is the same thing that happens when we die? (I mean a mystical experience)

And more on that if that is really what happens when we die (I mean we experience a mystical experience) then maybe we just experience it for some time then we fade away into nothingness same as the dreamless deep sleep state which has no form at all whatsoever 

[Atb210201]

I feel like something is missing here and all there is is not consciousness but consciousness is what nothingness appears as when it takes a form

and consciousness is secondary to nothingness

[Someone here]

2 minutes ago, Atb210201 said:

If mystical experiences are also just some states that consciousness can take then who's to say they are the real reality behind everything and also even if they feel more real than the reality we are in it's just a heightened sense of reality isn't it?

They are not any less or more real than any other state of consciousness. There Is no degrees to the "realness " of consciousness. But there are degrees to the intensity of consciousness. And its easily verifiable when you drink caffeine or smoke a joint that you enter a higher state of consciousness. Same with mystical experiences. They are not more real than your ordinary state of consciousness . But they are higher In intensity. 

5 minutes ago, Atb210201 said:

what if there is no reality to anything and reality quote on quote is just a term to describe what you are feeling and sensing at the moment

Yea .reality is what you are experiencing right NOW. Not sure how does that mean there is no reality?

6 minutes ago, Atb210201 said:

then if all of these are the case then who can say it is the same thing that happens when we die? (I mean a mystical experience

Death is a belief. There Is no actuality whatsoever to death other than a thought you are imagining right now (since we agree that reality is only what we are experiencing right now ).

 

9 minutes ago, Atb210201 said:

And more on that if that is really what happens when we die (I mean we experience a mystical experience) then maybe we just experience it for some time then we fade away into nothingness same as the dreamless deep sleep state which has no form at all whatsoever 

You don't have to die or fall asleep to experience "nothingness ". Nothingness is everything you are experiencing right now.  This is all nothing. Science has proven that 99% of physical matter is empty space. 

[Atb210201]

@Someone here Then the possibility of having a mystical experience and a heightened intense consciousness is more when you are in the life and experiencer state of consciousness and not when you die and there is no form like dreamless state right?

 

In other word is death like dreamless state a consciousness with no form or there is still some form when we die

That is what I'm mainly questioning 

[Someone here]

2 minutes ago, Atb210201 said:

@Someone here Then the possibility of having a mystical experience and a heightened intense consciousness is more when you are in the life and experiencer state of consciousness and not when you die and there is no form like dreamless state right?

 

In other word is death like dreamless state a consciousness with no form or there is still some form when we die

That is what I'm mainly questioning 

Well..you will die soon(as you believe)and you will know

..why the hurry to know beforehand? 

[Atb210201]

@Someone here because I really wanna know it I'm tired of all the things I've heard from all the teachers 

I'm tired of not being sure of it myself and questioning and doubting every thought and concepts I've heard

I also had a mystical experience on mushrooms a year ago myself and I also doubt that

I don't know I'm sometimes in conflict with my mind and I really really wanna know the raw truth beyond any room for any doubt to arise in my mind

[Someone here]

3 minutes ago, Atb210201 said:

@Someone here because I really wanna know 

Why ? Why you feel the need to know?  Aren't you looking for the good feeling that accompanies this knowledge (finally, I know ) ?

Now this might sound like drifting from your original question..but I suggest that you foreget about figuring death out ..and start by figuring life out first .

If you feel like you have no idea what you're doing with your life at 17 it's understandable, but if you're over 30 and pretending you're a kid without any real goal ahead of you. Well you might have a problem.

In truth you're never have your entire life figured out but it's important to know what you want to work toward.

“A boat without a destination is left at the mercy of the waves".

It all starts with figuring out who you are, what makes you happy and what would you like your life as you move forward.

 

 

[Atb210201]

@Someone here Yes I've been thinking and observing the same things that you just said in myself

And I'm 23 and I have a girlfriend and I want to marry her and build and share my life with her

But I still feel unsatisfied sometimes with my spirituality and feel like what's the point of everything and there is no point in anything and I get so frustrated with myself it just becomes so heavy sometimes you know:))

Thank you for being with me and answering me though I really appreciate your comments on my situation

 

and sometimes I just really hate my mind that it always wants to be a step ahead of everyone and itself (as if that's possible)

but I hate it when I see it always is predicting the future and also everyone else's answers to say to them if they figured something about it that it already knew what they were gonna say and beat them

Edited August 27, 2022 by Atb210201

[Someone here]

@Atb210201 you're welcome bro.

Try to recognise that you have your whole life to ‘figure it out’ and that life is more of a wave than a straight line. The wave will always go up and down it will shift and change, one moment you’ll be in the perfect position the next you’ll be under water. Let go of the pressure of absoluteness and perfection and hold compassion towards your self. Some people never figure it out, some give up on trying, some stress there whole lives about getting there, others choose to live and to love the process not the end. Learn to love the process as opposed to figuring it out, avoid being a donkey chasing the carrot hanging from a stick and string. Good luck on your journey!

[Atb210201]

@Someone here Thank you so much I'm feeling some relief now

[Leo Gura]

Consider the possibility that you are imagining deep sleep

[Atb210201]

@Leo Gura Which means I'm imagining formlessness

Hah that's some food for thought

[LSD-Rumi]

one time after taking a psychdelic, a few days after that, I was conscious that I was sleeping. It was strange. I was aware of this darkness we call it sleep. It was like being awake while sleeping if that makes any sense.

[Leo Gura]

6 minutes ago, Atb210201 said:

@Leo Gura Which means I'm imagining formlessness

Hah that's some food for thought

Your ideas of formlessness are just a concept and you're certainly imagining that. But true formlessness is right here and now.

[Atb210201]

@LSD-Rumi Yeah I also became like that in my sleep some time ago but it was different for me I became conscious in my dreams not in the dreamless state