The fundamental difference between imagination and reality

[MrTouchdown]

Reality is what is. It exists now. 

Now you can use your imagination to imagine things that don't exist.

But don't mistake what you imagine for what actually is.

Just my opinion.

Edited May 3, 2022 by MrTouchdown

[Flyboy]

11 minutes ago, MrTouchdown said:

Reality is what is. It exists now. 

Now you can use your imagination to imagine things that don't exist.

But don't mistake what you imagine for what actually is.

Just my opinion.

Your imagination exists now, too.  What "exists" is literally what you experience, and you experience imagination as mental images, ideas, thoughts, sounds, etc.  You also experience the world.  Except this is not quite right, because existence itself fades with enough investigation (this is the idea of emptiness).  You'll eventually conclude things neither exist nor don't exist, as the word almost doesn't apply anymore.  In the same way, SELF (even the big God-realization self) doesn't exist either, as self and not-self make no sense from that non-perspective.  

What we're really talking about is the collapse of all duality (including those within language).  Which is why this all gets paradoxical and impossible to really describe or talk about   And also why "understanding" is ultimately futile, as understanding and not-understanding also collapse.  Enlightenment is not "no-mind" like Leo seems to think, but rather the spontaneous realization that is possible from this place of genuine letting go, of true not-knowing and not-clinging.  It is necessarily beyond the mind/concepts.

[Thought Art]

Yet both are now 

[MrTouchdown]

@Flyboy Why do you conclude that things neither exist nor don't exist? Isn't existence a property of what you are aware of?

[Flyboy]

@MrTouchdown That's a very deep question you'll need to read some books for  Seeing that Frees is a great one-stop-shop for that though.

At its essence, existence itself is a concept which is projected onto "this-ness".  When seen through, solidity falls away because "this-ness" has no properties and no substance.  But you absolutely cannot take this as intellectual understanding, because that is just more concepts.  You must deconstruct your perceptual filters until this shines through.

[WelcometoReality]

1 hour ago, MrTouchdown said:

Reality is what is. It exists now. 

Now you can use your imagination to imagine things that don't exist.

But don't mistake what you imagine for what actually is.

Just my opinion.

Indeed. But imagination might go deeper than you believe it does. ?

Edited May 3, 2022 by WelcometoReality

[MrTouchdown]

@Flyboy If this post doesn't exist then wouldn't that mean you can't be aware of it? And if you aren't aware of this then how do you respond to this?

Edited May 3, 2022 by MrTouchdown

[Inliytened1]

3 minutes ago, MrTouchdown said:

@Flyboy If you claim this post doesn't exist then how do you respond to it?

I think he's just saying that existence and non existence is a duality that must collapse.  They are relative terms.  But I shall add this: things Exist with a capital E - this is the Absolute.  There is also Understanding with a capital U - this too is an Absolute.  It doesn't require finite thought or dualistic thinking.

[MrTouchdown]

@Inliytened1 Why must the duality collapse? Both words are useful. Your computer exists but WW14 doesn't exist yet.

[Inliytened1]

1 minute ago, MrTouchdown said:

@Inliytened1 Why must the duality collapse? Both words are useful. Your computer exists but WW14 doesn't exist yet.

They are relative.  

In the relative sense correct, WW14 doesn't exist yet.  However Absolutely speaking it exists and is real - as a thought in your mind. That's what it exists as.

[Flyboy]

22 hours ago, Inliytened1 said:

I think he's just saying that existence and non existence is a duality that must collapse.  They are relative terms.  But I shall add this: things Exist with a capital E - this is the Absolute.  There is also Understanding with a capital U - this too is an Absolute.  It doesn't require finite thought or dualistic thinking.

See this is where the Leo teachings are very misleading.  NOTICE: "Absolute" is a concept.  Collapsing of dualities is a concept.  The capital letter stuff that supposedly captures the conceptual + non-conceptual is a CONCEPT.  You are just going meta on concepts with concepts in order to convince yourself you're "beyond" the concepts while still using concepts.  Things don't exist or Exist.  There is no understanding or Understanding.  This doesn't work.  It falls all the way back.

If that scares you, good.  Welcome to the real work of actually surrendering into that unknowing.

 

[Flyboy]

An analogy is a garden that represents your ability to imagine.  You might consider it very big, even infinite.  Yet, you acknowledge that there might be "stuff" out there which you can't imagine.  Without close examination, it would appear to you that you've held space for something existing outside your garden.

In reality, all you have really done is built a little wall inside your garden, labeled it as "the stuff beyond imagination", and allowed it to remain dark and mysterious--a nice placeholder.  You now never have to leave your garden.  This is just a trick you're playing on yourself to make it seem like you've considered that which is beyond your mind, while actually staying nice and safe inside it.

Not Knowing goes deep.  It is radical surrender.  It is death.  It's the gateless gate.  Go there and stay there, again and again.