Quick afterword to my closed thread "Overcoming Spirituality"

[Karl-Heinz Mueller]

Alrighty, so my thread "Overcoming Spirituality" was closed by Leo.

I didn't expect all-too much out of it, indeed it was pretty naive of me to expect anything out of it in terms of any self-reflective reply of Leo, in the first place.

Finally Leo remarked that I am
 

Quote

clearly not ready for this work.

As to that, Leo, both of us agree unanimously, and I consent wholeheartedly.
I am clearly not ready for "this work" in the same why that I feel clearly not ready to join some kind of spiritual carnival association.

Best
Karl-Heinz Müller

Edited January 28, 2022 by Karl-Heinz Mueller

[undeather]

The actualized.org forum is not a very good place to debate the validity of spiritual claims since a lot of members pride themselves in being anti-intellectual and "beyond science". The weird thing is that at the end, they are right in their basic ontonlogy - but most of them got there skipping the rational part. There is an argument to be made which is completely rational, to the ground and actually much more likely than "the nihilistic materlistic paradigm" - and it has been made for thousands of years. I also disagree with Leo on a lot of his views because some of them are just wrong - which is okay, because he is a human too. That said, he is also right in a lot of important ways.

If you want, we can discuss this in priavte (per PM). Oh and by the way - Ich bevorzuge dabei Deutsch

Edited January 28, 2022 by undeather

[Karl-Heinz Mueller]

 

12 hours ago, undeather said:

I also disagree with Leo on a lot of his views because some of them are just wrong - which is okay, because he is a human too. That said, he is also right in a lot of important ways.

Wow, first time I hear someone saying that here! I know he is human (not "human too", but "human only"). Like I said, it would be okay for me too, but is not okay after he said that, no to mention all his god jokes. That casts an infinitely huge dark cloud over his entire work.

Noone must complain about having troll armies flood on them after having proclaimed such a travesty to the entire planet.

12 hours ago, undeather said:

The actualized.org forum is not a very good place to debate the validity of spiritual claims since a lot of members pride themselves in being anti-intellectual and "beyond science".

Thank you, you expressed it very well.

Yeah, if I look at some the the threads here it kind of feels like as if I had entered a regulars' table of spiritual carnival orators (Büttenredner), with people competing with each other about who can make the best jokes, and the more ridiculous those jokes are, the better they are recognized. Like if I was to, say, come up with a weird concoction of the Mahayanic Heart Sutra mixed with some Waldorf education mixed with some new agey shaman mysticism and flavoured with some Celtic folklore perhaps, and make it sound great and how it helped me to "realize universal godhood", the table would go like: Wooow! That’s so deep! Give us more of that, swaying to and fro with their beers.

And then if someone perhaps has an inkling of reality, sensing perhaps that this here is a joke, he is quickly recaptured by his peers, going like „naah bro, you only limit yourself! Come on, have more beer!" And if he then insists, he is issued a caution to be expelled from the club.

12 hours ago, undeather said:

If you want, we can discuss this in priavte (per PM). Oh and by the way - Ich bevorzuge dabei Deutsch

Sehr gerne!

Edited January 29, 2022 by Karl-Heinz Mueller

[Leo Gura]

13 hours ago, Karl-Heinz Mueller said:

I am clearly not ready for "this work" in the same why that I feel clearly not ready to join some kind of spiritual carnival association.

Then you have no business being here.

Good luck elsewhere.

[Scholar]

You make the mistake of projection. You yourself have done spirituality via irrational dogmatism, you have adopted beliefs in terms of outwards attention, as you say even today "That convinces me, that doesn't convince me!".

You are a believer who is seeking the right belief. And now you discovered rationalism and materialism, which "convinces you more".

But you are not actually being rational, you are just going from one system of faith to the next.

 

For you I would actually recommend philosophy. Instead of looking at the world and testing certain belief systems, look at your own and try to justify them. Read some Hegel.

The issue right now is not only that you cannot justify matierialism, you do not even know what it means to rationally justify something. You do not merely not see the limits of rationality, you are not even engaging in rationality.

 

You cannot fathom that someone starts at rationality, and spents years and years studying philosophy and science and to then come to conclude that the world is not materialistic. Because that's not how it was for you. You were a silly dogmatist who realized how dogmatic he way, and now you are projecting your non-sense onto everyone as if you had discovered reason for the first time. You are lagging behind on hundreds of years of philosophy and science, which is the great irony here. All you know is dogmatically adopting belief systems via "I am convinced by this. I am not convinced by this.".

 

You cannot justify materialism because it's just another belief you have. Now, go and actually learn what reasoning is, study philosophy and science for 10 years, in a non-dogmatic way, read hundreds of books, and come back here and talk to us about your materialistic nihilism.

Edited January 29, 2022 by Scholar

[Karl-Heinz Mueller]

 

1 hour ago, Scholar said:

The issue right now is not only that you cannot justify matierialism, you do not even know what it means to rationally justify something. You do not merely not see the limits of rationality, you are not even engaging in rationality.

Bruh, I guess you should read the discussion to its end and look up some of my later replies.

1 hour ago, Leo Gura said:

Then you have no business being here.

Good luck elsewhere.

I felt that my business here was to be someone who holds up a mirror to you Leo to make you aware of the red cardboard nose you are wearing.
But for someone who is enshrouded in dark mist, any mirror of whatever kind is of no use.

Having recognized that, my business here is over.

All the best
Karl-Heinz Müller

Edited January 29, 2022 by Karl-Heinz Mueller

[BlueOak]

All this talk about manners and personality is useless. That was half your other threads first post. It made it very difficult to get through to the point. Now we have. I don't like this person, and i'm going to tell you why. I don't like how you do things MR X, and you're going to know it before i'm done. That makes me feel good. Just stop wasting your time on drama and living in reaction to everything, its utterly useless to you and everyone around you. Because now all we are doing is discussing the drama, its like a ball of threads or posts sucking in energy to no purpose.

If you can't get past he said she said, or personalities, or ways people say things, then you need to go out and be frustrated with personalities some more until they no longer matter. This can take a lifetime. Method largely doesn't matter either. Its only results that matter, or become material in life.